Canonbury Goods: Edwardian NLR in P4

[garethashenden]

This is the start of my new P4 layout. A change of gauge (EM to P4 in this case) is a rather major undertaking, but my move back to America from London in October seemed like a good time to make the switch.

 

This layout will depict a small fictional goods yard on the North London Railway, somewhere between Highbury & Islington and Dalston Junction. Canonbury/Mildmay Park or something like that. The layout itself is a standard 5/3/3 Inglenook set in the railway cutting. Putting the goods yard in the cutting probably isn't prototypical, but it is the atmosphere I wanted to depict. One of both of the three wagon tracks will be for domestic coal, while the 5 wagon siding will be for general goods, probably with a loading dock of some sort. There is an bridge over the entrance track, a pub on the corner and the backs of terraced houses for a background.

 

I spent the afternoon making a 1/4 scale (1mm/ft) model. The main purpose of this was to check that what I had in my head would actually look good. I'm quite happy with it and plan to start work soon.

 

It's about 45"x12"

 

 

What do you think?

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

Interesting, There were two railway companies, with small goods yards in that area, NLR and GNR, the GN goodsyard was connected to Kings Cross goods yard by a line over the top of Copenhagen tunnel.

 

manna

[Baby Deltic]

There was also the old LNER Cambay Street Goods Depot just east of Sumatra Road.

[Echo]

Looks a nice little introduction to P4. My suggestion would be that the approach road is perhaps a little steep.

 

Also, the backs of terraced houses tended (I think) to be barer than the fronts, without the extra brickwork hiding part of the slope of the rooves - see

 

http://londontopia.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1665c84a314f822a6a05a5a86bb0c241.jpg

 

http://www.kingswaymodels.com/userimages/TERBF%202.jpg

 

Kingsway Models sell card kits of terraced housing etc, which might interest you http://www.kingswaymodels.com

 

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

[mightbe]

Is the timbering and sleepering intentional or the by-product of default Templot settings?  

 

I'm not sure, but I'd think the timbers for the turnouts would be equalized. If you're hand-laying plain track, a switch to 30 ft panels with 11 (9 ft) sleepers per length would be a good way to de-modernize the overall look. (the settings you're currently using would be more appropriate for a 1940s-50s main line)

 

Looking forward to further progress! 

 

Quentin (also making inroads into P4)

[garethashenden]

Is the timbering and sleepering intentional or the by-product of default Templot settings?

 

I'm not sure, but I'd think the timbers for the turnouts would be equalized. If you're hand-laying plain track, a switch to 30 ft panels with 11 (9 ft) sleepers per length would be a good way to de-modernize the overall look. (the settings you're currently using would be more appropriate for a 1940s-50s main line)

 

Looking forward to further progress!

 

Quentin (also making inroads into P4)

I've changed the turnout timbering to equalised since printing out the diagram. That's for the tip about 30' rail sections. I'll change that. The sleepers are already 9'.

[garethashenden]

Looks a nice little introduction to P4. My suggestion would be that the approach road is perhaps a little steep.

 

Also, the backs of terraced houses tended (I think) to be barer than the fronts, without the extra brickwork hiding part of the slope of the rooves - see

 

http://londontopia.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1665c84a314f822a6a05a5a86bb0c241.jpg

 

http://www.kingswaymodels.com/userimages/TERBF%202.jpg

 

Kingsway Models sell card kits of terraced housing etc, which might interest you http://www.kingswaymodels.com

 

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Thanks for that. I had been planning to either stretch the scalescenes terraced house to three stories or scratchbuild something with their brick paper.

I agree that the road is too steep. I think that end of the retaining wall needs to move back a bit. That's the whole point of the layout model. I can figure these things out now, rather than after I've put a whole lot of effort into it.

[Stubby47]

If the yard was built during horse drawn road transport the the slope is far too sleep. There might also have been a flat area at the top of the slope to allow vehicles to stop before turning on to the road - saving a 'hill start'. Plus there'd be room for a gate hut for security. 

[martin_wynne]

Hi Gareth,

 

If it's a goods yard, the sidings are too close together to allow access for wagon loading. I think you would do better with only two sidings.

 

As others have suggested, the ramp is far too steep. I suggest you make it the full length of the yard, with a turn back round the buffer stops at the far end.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Shadow]

Why not have a set of stairs/steps leading off the road down to the ground. (For pedestrian access)

The road access could be on the right leading off the front of the layout through a different access point.

 

Dave

[garethashenden]

Thanks everyone for your input, it's appreciated. I think I'm going to stretch the layout to 15x48. This will let me make all three tracks a little longer and give more space to the middle one. Most of the added width will go between the tracks and the retaining wall, allowing a shallower ramp and more space for maneuvering/loading. I'll make a new model of the lower section to see how that looks.

[hayfield]

Gareth

 

As far as building trackwork is concerned, building in P4 is no more difficult than in EM. With such a small layout, flat baseboards will be easy to attain. Therefore is there any need for compensating the stock.

 

Looks a very good project

[garethashenden]

Here's the revised trackplan

 

And the rebuilt model, slightly longer and wider.

[mightbe]

The longer ramp looks much better.

 

In my haste, I forgot to describe how to change sleeper settings (if you wanted to)--for each piece of track, select it (m), then go to Real>plain track options>rail lengths and sleeper spacings. From there you can select a preset or make your own. (select a custom slot and then "custom settings".

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

For 30 ft rails / 11 sleepers, I couldn't find any relevant prototype info (I refer you to Martin Wynne), but here are some starting figures that look about right to me:

 

click "custom settings", hit the "6" key, type in a good name, then type 

360 [Enter]

12 [Enter]

26 [Enter]

35.5 [Enter] (repeat line up through sleeper #10; the first page will fill and then a second page will appear)

26 [Enter]

[Enter] (repeat line until the little window goes away)

 

If all goes well, it looks like this: 

 

 

 

(two lengths shown for clarity)

 

Quentin

[garethashenden]

Like this?

 

[Jeff Smith]

I would continue the top (in your diagram) siding straight from the point. This would give better separation and maximize the wagon capacity. I think it would look better too. You could adjust the retaining wall to give better access.

[garethashenden]

I think I've pushed that retaining wall as far back as it will go. If I push it any further I'll lose either the houses or the back gardens, both of which are features I really want. I also don't really want to go beyond the 15" on depth, it would start turning into a bigger project than I really want to take on.

 

 

One thing I have been wondering about yesterday and today is what to do about the road? The houses make a good backdrop, but the road is a problem. I could paint a street onto the backdrop, but I'm not sure about that. Anyone have any brilliant solutions?

[Jeff Smith]

Which road are you referring to, the overbridge into the distance?

[garethashenden]

Which road are you referring to, the overbridge?

Yes

[Jeff Smith]

Are you going to have a sky/cityscape backdrop behind the houses and at the ends?

[Baby Deltic]

If its of any help, I model the North London Railway. I have an exhibition layout called Sumatra Road based in North London around Mildmay Park. It supposes that Mildmay Park and Western Junction were built in a slightly different form. There is an LNER goods depot called Cambay Street which is beyond the station limits as are most London goods depots. Link here:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6210-sumatra-road-the-north-london-railway-in-the-1960s/

[Stubby47]

Does the over bridge have to be at right angles to the track ? An angled bridge would allow buildings on the left to flow behind the houses on the right, with maybe a triangular shaped pub on the end of the terrace.

[garethashenden]

Does the over bridge have to be at right angles to the track ? An angled bridge would allow buildings on the left to flow behind the houses on the right, with maybe a triangular shaped pub on the end of the terrace.

That could work, but do you think there's enough space on the left for another building? I'm not sure how much of an angle it should be...

[Stubby47]

Given the roads were probably there before the railway cutting, a sharp turn over a new bridge would not seem out of place .

 

You could get away with an angle of 60° to the track ( 30° off from a straight bridge) giving enough room for a small building in low relief in the corner, with maybe a high wall across the road from the end of the terrace.

 

To the left of the corner building, an advertisement hoarding would help disguise the end of the layout.

[Jeff Smith]

Alternatively, how about a re-think. Loose the overbridge and ramp. Move the track back to the retaining wall and disguise the exit behind a building or structure of some sort at the front left corner. The increased space in front of the track would be the yard at track level, the yard entrance is assumed to be somewhere in front of the layout. You could also have a sector plate and kick-back storage siding under the house yards.....