More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[jamie92208]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

It is quite a short entry. I'll scan and PM to you tomorrow.

Thanks Stephen, pm now received with thanks.  @sir douglas, I'e now got the info.

 

Jamie

[Penlan]

5 hours ago, sir douglas said:

....... but the thing is that it looks like the side door is in the corner by the end door

Yes it is a side door,
Like this one at (near) Perth, (Dundee & Perth Rly) not long after the line was completed.
The line is to the east of Perth Princes Street Station.  
Please respect that I have the original (much larger) photo - Bought some 50 years ago at Hay-on-Wye Castle.
 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Penlan

[sir douglas]

none of them have a door right in the corner though

[Penlan]

37 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

none of them have a door right in the corner though

Evolution 🐒

[MarcD]

I have seen some of these wagons before. My money is on G&SWR as they have two end doors. 

Marc

[Compound2632]

 

[Schooner]

In utter sincerity, my first thought on seeing that thread title was 'Oh good, that'll cheer Stephen up!'

 

Seems to have done the job :)

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Schooner said:

In utter sincerity, my first thought on seeing that thread title was 'Oh good, that'll cheer Stephen up!'

 

Seems to have done the job :)

 

Oh, I had quite a cheerful day, on the Midland Railway Society stand. @Dave Hunt had a selection of his S7 midland models on display (not tomorrow, I'm afraid) so I enjoyed explaining the differences between the first and second batches of the Smith-Johnson Compounds, and Deeley's Compounds, to several people who probably regretted expressing interest. Also on display was @Grahams 5 inch gauge D302 wagon. That created a lot of interest, with a rather surprising variety of people owning up to having a 5" gauge line in the back garden. I may have instigated the conversion of one domestic outdoor swimming pool into a large-scale model of Swansea docks! However, the mum said she had once swum in Swansea docks and had no wish to repeat the experience. 

[Compound2632]

Quite by chance, thanks to information supplied by @Northroader in the context of @Edwardian's thread on building a Great War diorama, an interesting observation has arisen re. D302 10-ton open wagons. It would appear that most if not all of the 2,750 wagons built to the lots raised 1913-1916 went to WD service in France; those from the later lots probably went straight to WD service. As the vast majority of Midland wagons that were sent to France did return, there were probably few losses but it wasn't until late 1920 that most were repaired and put into Midland service. See discussion here:

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Compound2632
typo.

[sir douglas]

so is it just me that finds it quite unusual that the side door is in the corner?

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

so is it just me that finds it quite unusual that the side door is in the corner?

 

With these frankly medieval-looking Scottish coal bogies, I find it difficult to work out what is usual and what unusual. But I've not studied them properly, having but one book on Scottish wagonry: J. Hooper, Wagons on the LNER No. 1: North British (Irwell Press, 1991).

 

However, I don't think @Penlan's photo can be quite as early as he says - that signal looks quite mature to me.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Compound2632

[Annie]

On 24/11/2022 at 05:40, sir douglas said:

none of them have a door right in the corner though

I made some of these in P4 over 30 years ago now.  It was my first real experiment with working with Plasticard and they were a lot of fun to make.  Sorry no photos and I wouldn't know where the drawings I used came from, but they showed cupboard side doors set off to the side as well as in the middle along with double end doors with the characteristic paired steel hoop hinges.

[Compound2632]

I had a conversation with someone on the Scalefour Society stand at Warley who made some very complimentary remarks about this RMWeb thread. I failed to ask if he was a contributor to it or simply a reader - if the former I would be delighted if he would make himself known, by PM if he prefers.

 

I made a start on painting the 1950s wagons at club this evening - photos of work in progress tomorrow, perhaps.

[WFPettigrew]

12 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I had a conversation with someone on the Scalefour Society stand at Warley who made some very complimentary remarks about this RMWeb thread.

Sounds like that was Paul Willis??

(in blue here https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=511158501053467&set=basw.AbrEnGDE3Uw4a_qHgMgBA_ytdYbg9-B-n3rIr8iNKHRMbp4X61iJhLMbUYEYL3vmVP9CCKWIDtfpys42lAclQ5EzP8ILa7PO9hu9UD0x28rgIvkHdxwvlUA4dWiIpt5Oiln5U_LUdaeQCbVlUZELFHE9PvcfFKLBcAPb5OBY0TZiBA&opaqueCursor=Abq-eNvlC-Pk15p_u0zGXtVSP98hyLSkjuRcpFM_zAy3_2z2fRVkpw9PBc_O_-TRiZTNVf1Kef8Nu7-f5oFADeof827T8uhvR7Qf8Z9sNsjOtFtie3b7t1opf9H_YuBw6bUzp-7Whm73m5cbmBP-_H-h2Ma3xk4SWmfCyYesg6IMqUoaY0eJ4QBvYmBxoLOIuqIsj_cAHkR_NVOhnrn_MmodDuTScwMHbpYGy2xNyfEiKdu7zkal1G5SpF5kx819ZpP534mJK8YTZsQG7KbwytdNywEtjtw1_cUNDRnMNlMKRi0uwHEC9_qDywe0USliACFtQwrlnF4jHrUJeKc3ZSiLI12qipILoHNwo0DSrbL7gholcPxvVuy_qENqJdKX0BY0a5hY78uJuQ2jKQJqD5_gnjhVVgqseh6NNpAI0S6UToFY5oofORenjiN2fPMwQ89xMu4ywAxnLMqLQpp-xJrytkGGLOPDhX8i5KM2OPfhgqeJxcllzlzrZDK4ck7yzqO363IeyZDALmYraZL6GNn4sgeL7Kr8aC7i6UdXVf1Jpy6w2Q5j16aQ18waPp7laigDe8gJUdtu6MKrAll88hUJcThxQ3DSSPvl-l0-EOUnxJfXa9RhqtVfC0I99fFM-rkIryfVStuOjMHX7zmEd2d7fBwVeIDXoapPsycJJOqyKeg4pJCLrc6P5920GjvpE_V3-Ixsv0E1aTh6p_6lAoGbUW1rH4cJP0d41tP3eMGmkoHnnw4CC0QQc-iM3k6GBMNT7UPv6DW70Ble6JUN4Na_3HWzfYJYZUMGpjVUv5WNFs1PYNfxK8OY8fKmlmiEb5_drUnM5_UaLlPPAXsFFCBL )

 

Certainly he and I have conversed about this thread in the past and we both mentioned on the Sunday of Scaleforum that you were going to be there that day, but as we wouldn't recognise you, we wouldn't have known... 

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Sounds like that was Paul Willis??

 

It was; I take it he is a reader rather than a poster. If he was the latter, I would have been interested to connect the him as met in the flesh with his posts.

[Miss Prism]

@Flymo749

 

[Compound2632]

@richbrummitt was so kind as to mention me in response to a question about the brake-gear of Midland 16' 6" covered goods wagons, D362 / D363; writing a response forced me to get together my information on that subject, which I hadn't previously done, as an article on covered goods wagons for the Midland Railway Society Journal is about a year away. There was also mention of a D294 medium cattle wagon, for which the 2mm Society has a kit, apparently - if only there was a 4 mm scale kit! ( @MarcD ) Unfortunately I am able to show that medium cattle wagons were extinct by the post-Great War period being modelled by the original questioner. I link to it here so I've some chance of finding it again!

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Compound2632

[MarcD]

MR medium (16ft6) cattle van should be ready next week in 4mm. I finished the CAD model yesterday. I should also say it's available in HO,4mm, S, 7mm and G1(1/32).

Marc

Edited December 3, 2022 by MarcD

[MarcD]

Just added the MR medium cattle van (PGR47) and GNoSR Box van (PGR75) to the website.

Marc

[Compound2632]

On 03/12/2022 at 09:38, MarcD said:

Just added the MR medium cattle van (PGR47)

 

I've placed an order!

 

D299s in LMS livery: the earliest example I know of is No. 37729, photographed on 27 March 1923, freshly fully repainted with LMS lettering [Midland Wagons Vol. 1 plate 65]. My attention has been drawn to one of Tony @Rail-Online's photos, taken in 1924 at Wood Green:

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p910105639/h1FABBD42#h119fab89

 

This wagon has evidently been through a wagon repair shop (one of the many on the Midland system) since early 1923; a full repaint has not been deemed necessary but the MR lettering has been painted over and replaced by the new LMS lettering. Whereas on No. 3779 the bottom of the lettering is aligned with the bottom of the second plank up, here the top is aligned with the top of the fourth plank up. 

 

I wonder if the number would be legible, if Tony were to oblige us with an enlargement of that portion of the photo?

[65179]

Do you mean this photo Stephen?

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p910105639/h119fab89

 

Your link seems to lead to a photo of PO wagons at New Southgate.

 

Regards,

Simon

[Compound2632]

@65179, that's curious. For me, both my link and yours go to the Wood Green photo. The New Southgate photo is the next one along.

[Dave John]

To answer Sir Douglas,  mineral bogies in Scotland tended to have a single shoe brake with the lever mounted up on the body . Must be on the other side in penlans photo, the brake block was always at the end door end. Hence no rh doors. 

 

There were hundreds of variations on the theme, lh doors one side , centre doors both sides,  end door only and bottom door only. 

 

 

[65179]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

@65179, that's curious. For me, both my link and yours go to the Wood Green photo. The New Southgate photo is the next one along.

 

That is odd. If I use my phone it goes to the New Southgate photo, but if I use my laptop it goes to the one you intended!

 

Simon

[Rail-Online]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I've placed an order!

 

D299s in LMS livery: the earliest example I know of is No. 37729, photographed on 27 March 1923, freshly fully repainted with LMS lettering [Midland Wagons Vol. 1 plate 65]. My attention has been drawn to one of Tony @Rail-Online's photos, taken in 1924 at Wood Green:

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p910105639/h1FABBD42#h119fab89

 

This wagon has evidently been through a wagon repair shop (one of the many on the Midland system) since early 1923; a full repaint has not been deemed necessary but the MR lettering has been painted over and replaced by the new LMS lettering. Whereas on No. 3779 the bottom of the lettering is aligned with the bottom of the second plank up, here the top is aligned with the top of the fourth plank up. 

 

I wonder if the number would be legible, if Tony were to oblige us with an enlargement of that portion of the photo?

No Chance!

 

Tony