Titan Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Some of you no doubt are aware, but if there is anyone with young children, and have these, you had better bin them asap! The NHS has recently issued a safety alert, so it is not just unsubstantiated theory, fitting any of them is officially more dangerous than leaving the sockets without. This is a quote from MK, one of the leading manufacturers of BS1363 sockets: “MK does not see the need for or support the use of so-called ‘socket-protectors’ in BS 1363-2 socket-outlets due to the fact that protection against access to the live and neutral socket contacts is always provided by the shutters.At first sight, it ‘seems obvious’ to many that such devices will improve safety but in practice they do the opposite as shown by the numerous examples on the FatallyFlawed website. ‘Socket-protectors’ do not comply with any standard and in practice reduce safety via various means e.g. exposing the live and neutral socket contacts (the opposite of their purpose), providing an easy means of opening shutters by allowing operation of the earth operated shutter mechanism, damaging the socket contacts due to oversize pins and/or short pins.If ‘socket protectors’ are to continue to be allowed on the UK (and other European markets) then, as a minimum, it is essential that they are designed and manufactured so that:-• The pin dimensions (including length) align with the plug pin dimensions in BS 1363-1.• The materials used are robust and not so soft that they allow the device to be misused by allowing it to operate shutters of an earth operated shutter mechanism.• The device has a surface area which is large enough to completely cover the socket-outlet apertures so that the live socket contacts are not exposed.MK goes to great lengths to ensure that all its BS 1363 plugs and sockets are safe. Inserting incorrectly dimensioned products into a socket-outlet can both damage the socket and reduce its safety.” See the safety alert here: https://www.cas.dh.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAttachment.aspx?Attachment_id=102519 And if you still think they are a good idea read this: http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/ Basically British sockets are the safest in the world, with multiple safety features. Fitting one of these so called 'safety' covers manages to defeat these features and make them more dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 There are MK sockets in my house (installed in '80s) that don't rely on the earth pin to open the L & N shutters. It is possible to insert a broken plug top, (with no earth pin), either way round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 I am not sure, but I think the ones that do not require the earth pin to be inserted to open the shutters, require the L&N pins to be inserted simultaneously in order for the shutters to open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris64B Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Really useful - thanks for flagging this up! ...goes round the house removing the socket covers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 There are MK sockets in my house (installed in '80s) that don't rely on the earth pin to open the L & N shutters. It is possible to insert a broken plug top, (with no earth pin), either way round. So you are complaining about sockets that have been installed for 30 years, in that case may I recommend you get down B&Q* and get some new sockets! * Other suppliers are available, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 There is also the problem with 4 or 6 way extension leads where you can insert a plug upside down thereby opening the shutter. https://www.quora.com/Are-UK-power-sockets-designed-to-be-baby-safe-or-are-socket-covers-necessary I've noticed this to be more of a problem with recent purchases, I suppose manufacturers are trying to make them smaller or use less materials. In fact I've just noticed the last one I bought has thinner cable and a 10A fuse. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted July 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2016 Im beginning to see worms crawling out of cans over this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Interesting that this is really only now coming to the fore, in that the IET (successors to the IEE of the famed "wiring regs") have been trying to get the profile of this issue raised for many years. We have two young children, so not far on from toddler stage, and I was "told off" on a couple of occasions by well-meaning visiting mums, for not using these things "especially because you are an electrical engineer, so ought to know the danger of electricity". Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 So you are complaining about sockets that have been installed for 30 years, in that case may I recommend you get down B&Q* and get some new sockets! * Other suppliers are available, And where did I say I was complaining? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'm not sure which socket covers this thread is aimed at, but when our children were small we bought a pack of plastic ones, similar to these https://www.amazon.co.uk/NEW-White-Socket-Covers-Safety/dp/B008LBDRQY/ref=sr_1_3?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1469035661&sr=1-3 They seemed to do the trick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Jonny777 Exactly. Those are the worse than useless ones. Childminding inspections (Ofstead) here requested them, we complied but removed them after inspection. We allowed our accreditation to lapse in 2012. All accessible sockets at least are UK made and have all the defence mechanisms described by MK Fostering inspections (social services) do not stipulate covers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted July 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'm not sure which socket covers this thread is aimed at, but when our children were small we bought a pack of plastic ones, similar to these https://www.amazon.co.uk/NEW-White-Socket-Covers-Safety/dp/B008LBDRQY/ref=sr_1_3?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1469035661&sr=1-3 They seemed to do the trick. They are exactly the type of covers being discussed. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2016 So how are they dangerous? Don't understand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 So how are they dangerous? Don't understand. The pins are too big and can spread the connections inside the socket meaning a possible poor contact and fire risk when the socket is used as intended, They can be a bit flexible so the earth pin can be inserted which would then push down the protectors inside the socket exposing the live and neutral terminals to an inquisitive probe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 And, some of them can break, leaving a pin in the socket, which can cause the terminals in the socket to be exposed. The key point is that they are completely unnecessary, because the socket contains a shield which covers the terminals until a plug is inserted, the earth pin of which then lifts the shield out of the way, allowing the other two, pins to make contact. Detail, including photo of the inside of a socket here http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/44/wall-socket-protectors.cfm?type=pdf BTW, I checked, and this issue was first raised by IET members as far back as 2002, and there was a major publicity push on the topic in 2009. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lankyphil Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Given that my 2 year old regularly copys daddy by carrying screwdrivers and various tools around the house, do I particularly want to run the risk of him inserting something, be it a tool or toy, into a plug socket? No thanks. I'll put a cover in them (which are also nigh on wife proof incidentally). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Pedant mode on. Why do people call them plug sockets? They are sockets - a female connector. You insert the male connector, a plug. Pedant mode off, sorry. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Pedant mode on. Why do people call them plug sockets? They are sockets - a female connector. You insert the male connector, a plug. Pedant mode off, sorry. Stewart Because its a socket for a plug and it makes it clear what sort of socket you are talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 If one were to be really pedantic wouldn't it be better to call it a 13Amp socket?, as I'm finding it difficult to get mysoldering iron plug to fit into a socket, Or perhaps plug socket is what most people understand. On a more serious note, it seems to have been a topic that's been around for years, with a lot of froth from both sides of the discussion, but no real evidence of actual harm from either side, the IOSH forum were discussing it back in 2011 http://forum.iosh.co.uk/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99806&p=2 and to me the most pertinent post was:- "Let me get this straight, we have one side saying that there has been no recorded incidents of a child receiving injuries using BS standard shuttered sockets, and the other saying that we have no recorded instances of the same with socket covers!!So what's the issue?" Whilst theres a lot of theoretical risk I haven't yet found any answer to the question "is there any definitive evidence of harm caused by using them?", there's also comment regarding their preventing other appliances like fires being plugged into sockets, so it's probably a case of taking a view on the subject, following your own course, then finding your child has fallen down stairs and broken his/her arm, or eaten the slug pellets in the garden. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Because its a socket for a plug and it makes it clear what sort of socket you are talking about. No it doesn't. It's about as unclear as it can get. All sockets are receptacles for a plug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 No it doesn't. It's about as unclear as it can get. All sockets are receptacles for a plug. What about the sockets in Peter220950s post? They are also called sockets but you wont fit a plug in them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It is of the same ilk as train station. Bad grammar. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It is of the same ilk as train station. Bad grammar. Stewart Although plug socket does clarify what type of socket you are talking about, train station is just wrong! Why am I thinking about the 2 Ronnies and the hardware store? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz2-ukrd2VQ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted July 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2016 We never bothered with protectors - never saw the point of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Re. Peter220950s post You could get a sump plug in some ! hat, coat, leaving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.