Derailment Near Watford Junction due to landslip

[chrisf]

Amazing piece of reporting by a passenger on the Daily Fail website:

 

 

Radio reporter Sarah Lowther, who was on the derailed train, said two trains were 'kissing each other' in a tunnel.

 

She spoke of a 'Dunkirk spirit' on board as passengers helped one another, but said she was 'worried' about the driver, who had a bad back after the crash.

 

Speaking to Morning Money radio, she said: 'The trees were taken down from the side of the rail line last year. Trees have roots, roots hold the mud ... The mud had nothing to cling on to.

 

'It was the first time I've actually flown on a train; when we came off the tracks I assumed the brace position.

 

'Everyone is looking after each other with water and sugar but we're worried about our driver.'

Edwin C.

 

That's the same woman I mentioned earlier.  I would describe her not as a reporter but a rentaquote.

 

Chris

[Nearholmer]

Silver

 

My ex-chief bought his daughter a house, in Mid-Sussex, which, unbeknown to him, was built in the bottom of a former brick-pit, from which birch shrubbery was cleared before building ........... Three years after moving in, the clay had re-swelled to a degree whereby she could sit indoors, and look straight out through the wide cracks at her garden.

 

Ex-chief was deeply embarrassed, because he was a well-experienced civil and geotechnical chap, and had been a director of a well-known house builder, but he restored his self-worth by leading the compensation campaign, through which about twenty people got brand new houses, at the expense first of the builder's insurer, then the builder, who was found to have been negligent.

 

Kevin

[Southernman46]

The problem stems really from letting the trees grow in the first place.  Those cuttings used not to be wooded on the sides - probably some at the top but on the slopes nothing more than a few bushes.  But total lack of attention in the past 20 odd years means trees have got established and their root systems have penetrated the banks thus when the trees are got rid of you get the sort of problems you describe.  All down to an extended period of poor stewardship which, , regrettably, started in BR times although it has got far worse since - leading to leaf fall problems as well of course.

 

I found it quite illuminating on the Western when in the mid 1980s we began to suffer from increasing leaf fall problems and began to catch up the Southern in that respect.  When you applied a bit of logic it became very obvious what was happening - with the end of steam bank burning had ceased thus trees and shrubs began to grow unhindered.  Mid 1980s and trees approaching 20 years old and becoming mature and shedding ever more leaves every autumn - and we started getting into worse and more widespread wheelslide and adhesion problems.  Easy answer - chop down the trees.

Totally agree - don't let the trees grow, maintain the crest drains and the rest is easy ................................................. the Southern, sorry Balfour Beatty's cone-heads had to re-learn that lesson at least twice through bank slip derailments on the WOE line in the early 2000's.

 

"Conehead" - highway maintainer / civil engineering contractor masquerading as a railway infrastructure maintenance contractor in order to make money through neglect .................. got that one off me chest at last

[Nearholmer]

Plan of Warner Brother's set-up above the tunnels http://wbsl.com/stages

 

The "whatever it is that has been going on above the northern portal" that I have observed looks to be on WB property, or at the WB/NR boundary.

 

K

[Derekstuart]

I don't know about this driver but the driver of the derailed pendolino was reported to have stayed in his cab and battled to keep his train on the track, only giving up steering when the train was on its side. It must be true as I read it in a red top tabloid.

 

(the Greyrigg derailment in 2007)

I wouldn't criticise the driver, but what would he/she actually do in that situation, beyond hitting the brakes? Not being a train driver myself the skills involved are beyond me...

[roythebus]

BBC radio news reporting that 200 pax still aboard the stock involved.

 

At least they're in the dry!

[locoholic]

The cutting looks to be through chalk bedrock, which accounts for the steep sides. Trees were allowed to grow in the cutting. Tree roots will speed up the physical and chemical weathering of the rock that they penetrate, weakening it significantly, so that in a severe downpour the slope is more likely to fail. It also looks like there is much more tarmac and concrete around the top of the slope these days, which would increase runoff during the storm.

 

Glad no-one was hurt.

[Nearholmer]

Seriously poor zoom of phone shot, taken from a passing train about half an hour ago.

 

You can just make out what I think is stabilisation work (black bands) above the portal and at the crest, also the big "whatever it is" on WB property, with low sun glinting off it. I no longer think that the "whatever it is" is a silo for concrete; I think it is a newly erected film set.

 

Kevin

[Dagworth]

https://twitter.com/50039implacable/status/776822428924272640

[Ivatt46403]

Another of the damage to the 350 here:

 

https://twitter.com/DriverPotter/status/776830489525161984

 

(Although I'm not clear on what the other 350s next to it are for - passenger offload or emergency services delivery?)

[Derekstuart]

Wasn't that the set which "came into contact" with the derailed unit?

Another of the damage to the 350 here:

 

https://twitter.com/DriverPotter/status/776830489525161984

 

(Although I'm not clear on what the other 350s next to it are for - passenger offload or emergency services delivery?)

[stewartingram]

I wouldn't criticise the driver, but what would he/she actually do in that situation, beyond hitting the brakes? Not being a train driver myself the skills involved are beyond me...

Surely he steers it? The bearded wonder thinks his Pendolino drivers do!

 

Stewart

[Oldddudders]

The problem stems really from letting the trees grow in the first place.  Those cuttings used not to be wooded on the sides - probably some at the top but on the slopes nothing more than a few bushes.  But total lack of attention in the past 20 odd years means trees have got established and their root systems have penetrated the banks thus when the trees are got rid of you get the sort of problems you describe.  All down to an extended period of poor stewardship which, , regrettably, started in BR times although it has got far worse since - leading to leaf fall problems as well of course.

 

I found it quite illuminating on the Western when in the mid 1980s we began to suffer from increasing leaf fall problems and began to catch up the Southern in that respect.  When you applied a bit of logic it became very obvious what was happening - with the end of steam bank burning had ceased thus trees and shrubs began to grow unhindered.  Mid 1980s and trees approaching 20 years old and becoming mature and shedding ever more leaves every autumn - and we started getting into worse and more widespread wheelslide and adhesion problems.  Easy answer - chop down the trees.

 

Steam's demise was part of it, sure, Mike, but I'm afraid CWR is the main culprit. With costs of manpower rising, as people expected a living wage, dammit, CWR was used as a good reason to decimate the P Way gang structure, because having chaps wandering up and down their length daily seemed rather less necessary. These chaps looked after vegetation as a sort of subsidiary task. Since then, as you say....

[RJS1977]

She probably heard that trees slow down the path of the water and can reduce the severity of flash floods. Then again, trees can sometimes topple down the embankment, and having a group of three siblings hanging around the railway can reduce accidents, especially if two of the girls are wearing red bloomers.

 

[Ivatt46403]

Wasn't that the set which "came into contact" with the derailed unit?

Ah yes, sorry I'd assumed that the Virgin set just inside the portal on the earlier pics was one of those involved but I now see from the NR caption that that was a rescue train.

[Mark_A]

Regarding Sarah Lowther's choice of words, it would be good to acknowledge that as a passenger she'd just been caught up in a particularly unpleasant and violent series of impacts - even if this resulted (hopefully) in no major injury to anyone. She then provided an immediate description of what she'd been through - 'airborne' is not overdramatic and of course that was followed by landing on ballast and sleepers followed by the small matter of a glancing impact with an oncoming train, all this when confined in a tunnel.

 

She also empathised with the driver of her train, who must have seen the worst of nightmares unfolding before him or her.

 

It sounds as though the recent work to the cutting sides was then a topic of conversation on the stranded and tunnel-confined train ...

 

Oh, and fluids with sugar - bees certainly appreciate it but it's also in the books as an effective treatment for shock.

 

Now, for her words to leave the train at all, presumably the tunnel's mobile phone signal equipment escaped damage. I wonder where it's positioned?

[Derekstuart]

Mark, there's some validity in what you write of course and it is easy for everyone to criticise someone's reaction following an incident such as this- no one knows how they will respond until it happens to them.

 

It is all about drama now. I was on an aircraft in the mid 1990s that made an emergency landing; the local tv company came out to interview us and the response was a fairly calm "we were of course worried, but the crew did their job and I'm here to tell the tale.... now, where's that pub?" Compare that same event if it were to happen now "It was, like, so literally bad, I could not even, like, send a tweet about it. I thought we were all so like going to die."

 

Go back to WW2- people just saw all their family and friends blown up and others would say "Oh, bad luck" and carry on. I wonder if we are becoming emotionally incontinent these days.

[Talltim]

Mark, there's some validity in what you write of course and it is easy for everyone to criticise someone's reaction following an incident such as this- no one knows how they will respond until it happens to them.

 

It is all about drama now. I was on an aircraft in the mid 1990s that made an emergency landing; the local tv company came out to interview us and the response was a fairly calm "we were of course worried, but the crew did their job and I'm here to tell the tale.... now, where's that pub?" Compare that same event if it were to happen now "It was, like, so literally bad, I could not even, like, send a tweet about it. I thought we were all so like going to die."

 

Go back to WW2- people just saw all their family and friends blown up and others would say "Oh, bad luck" and carry on. I wonder if we are becoming emotionally incontinent these days.

Somewhere between the extremes is probably best for you emotionally in the long term.

[SM42]

Another of the damage to the 350 here:

 

https://twitter.com/DriverPotter/status/776830489525161984

 

(Although I'm not clear on what the other 350s next to it are for - passenger offload or emergency services delivery?)

 

I suspect that may be a scene from inside the tunnel. De-railed train on the up and the down train that it came into conflict with.

 

Andy

[stewartingram]

Regarding Sarah Lowther's choice of words, it would be good to acknowledge that as a passenger she'd just been caught up in a particularly unpleasant and violent series of impacts - even if this resulted (hopefully) in no major injury to anyone. She then provided an immediate description of what she'd been through - 'airborne' is not overdramatic and of course that was followed by landing on ballast and sleepers followed by the small matter of a glancing impact with an oncoming train, all this when confined in a tunnel.

 

She also empathised with the driver of her train, who must have seen the worst of nightmares unfolding before him or her.

 

It sounds as though the recent work to the cutting sides was then a topic of conversation on the stranded and tunnel-confined train ...

 

Oh, and fluids with sugar - bees certainly appreciate it but it's also in the books as an effective treatment for shock.

 

Now, for her words to leave the train at all, presumably the tunnel's mobile phone signal equipment escaped damage. I wonder where it's positioned?

And for any diabetic, possibly trapped (or better described as detained) in that tunnel for a long while, sugar is an essential lifesaver.

 

Stewart

[Nearholmer]

DS

 

I think that, on balance, I would rather live in a place, at a time, so generally safe that people tend to hyperbole over small things, than in a place, or a time, where people are so traumatised by what they are subjected to on a daily basis that they feel no need, or have no ability, to express emotions.

 

I heard a Syrian chap deploying what, in an English context, might be called "stiff upper lip" yesterday, on the radio. His wife and children were recently killed in shelling, which also reduced their home to dust and rubble.

 

K

[PhilJ W]

On this evenings BBC London news it was said that netting was being installed on the embankment sides and showed such netting in some shots. It was also stated that the netting had not been completed near the tunnel yet.

[Derekstuart]

"I was literally ambivalent to the whole thing and maintained half a stiff upper lip."

 

How's that?

Somewhere between the extremes is probably best for you emotionally in the long term.

[Derekstuart]

 NH, on one hand you appear to be saying that it is perfectly reasonable to consider, say, running out of cornflakes to be a major disaster as others are suffering worse fates and at the same time you appear to be saying not to get worked up over running out of cornflakes because other people are suffering worse fates.

 

I genuinely sympathise for the appalling situation Syrians are in at the moment and, without wishing to be political, our involvement it is a substantial stain on our history.

 

However, to get back to the previous point, I cannot understand why people feel the need to tweet every last "omg and "it was literally..." and so on (special interest groups such as those above being an exception). Having said that in fairness it is psychologically probably very similar to us all typing replies here- they serve little except to make us feel better.

DS

I think that, on balance, I would rather live in a place, at a time, so generally safe that people tend to hyperbole over small things, than in a place, or a time, where people are so traumatised by what they are subjected to on a daily basis that they feel no need, or have no ability, to express emotions.

I heard a Syrian chap deploying what, in an English context, might be called "stiff upper lip" yesterday, on the radio. His wife and children were recently killed in shelling, which also reduced their home to dust and rubble.

K

[jjb1970]

I came home tonight via Bedford and the Marston Vale line, it added to the time taken to get home but it is a pretty painless diversion option really. The Southern Electrostar to Bedford was really very nice, the London Midland 153 is well suited to the Marston Vale line which despite sounding like a quaint rural route spends quite a bit of its time passing through post industrial waste land.