Derailment Near Watford Junction due to landslip

[Nearholmer]

DS

 

What I was trying to say was: don't get irritated by people getting worked-up over trivia, because to do so is to get worked-up over trivia.

 

K

[jonny777]

https://twitter.com/50039implacable/status/776822428924272640

 

After seeing those photos, I can thank the heavens that this was not a far worse accident. There were probably hundreds of pax on the up service - given the time of day. Fate seems to have been smiling on the railways for once.

[Oldddudders]

After seeing those photos, I can thank the heavens that this was not a far worse accident. There were probably hundreds of pax on the up service - given the time of day. Fate seems to have been smiling on the railways for once.

And let us rejoice, yet again, that a railway accident in which no serious injuries have been reported is still regarded as newsworthy. Had a similarly-bloodless event occurred on a motorway, no news editor would give it a single column inch. Railways are still, quite rightly, regarded in the public's eye as inherently safe.

 

As for the writings and soundbites, this is the era in which we live. When the Beeb's own webpage begs you to contact them if you are on site or have been affected, vox pop journalism, being both immediate and cheap, has arrived.

[Mark_A]

*Pasted shamelessly from the uk.railway newsgroup*

I hope recovering the trains is less complicated than it might appear to a lay-person.

 

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From Genius Mobile, one of the railway's internal systems:

"# LANDSLIDE US WFJ CONTROLLER ADVISED GSMR CALL FROM 2K04 REPORTING
HITTING A P OSSIBLE LANDSLIDE ON THE U/S LINE APPROACHING WATFORD TUNNEL S.
MORE INFO TO FOLLOW... Manchester Control advised, block put on for any Up
Services to London Euston, any services via the West Midlands can be
accepted. No trains from Coventry to Rugby FURNO 2K04 is de-railed inside
the tunnel and has come into contac t with 2Y59. 0737HRS....FAST LINES
OPENED LM states that the driver of 2Y59 reports damage to the fron t of
the train. Not de-railed. Material/soil still falling onto the Up Slow. The
Down Slow is also affected by debris and also has flood water rail height
in the surrounding area. TALKING BY ON U/F LINE DUE TO SAFETY ISSUES.
LINESPEED ON FAST LINES 0931HRS. ** "

 

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[RJS1977]

And let us rejoice, yet again, that a railway accident in which no serious injuries have been reported is still regarded as newsworthy. Had a similarly-bloodless event occurred on a motorway, no news editor would give it a single column inch. Railways are still, quite rightly, regarded in the public's eye as inherently safe.

 

 

Yes, good that this sort of incident is sufficiently rare that it is considered newsworthy. However the fact that rail incidents tend to make the news while car accidents do not gives a false impression that cars are safer than trains.

[phil-b259]

I found this photo of the derailed train on another forum.

 

 

[roythebus]

Muck fee, looks like a Shark ballast plough!  We've had 2 lucky incidents this week that have made the news, this one and the RHDR. Minor injuries only in both cases that we know of.

 

Is the line clear yet?

[BR(S)]

Is the line clear yet?

 

I'd say it's still blocked at the moment, with the live signalling map showing "DETS" on the slow lines at Watford Jct: http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/lec2

[Gwiwer]

I found this photo of the derailed train on another forum.

 

 

And widely available on social media with the comment "That'll buff out"

 

This time the railway got lucky.  Had the derailed unit fouled by another centimetre the story might have been very different.  

 

The damage looks bad and 350264 might need a new cab end.  But it does appear consistent with the description used of "a glancing blow" given one unit was derailed foul of the other line upon which a train was approaching at or approaching permitted line speed. 

[Zomboid]

This time the railway got lucky. Had the derailed unit fouled by another centimetre the story might have been very different.

Indeed. If you phrase it as a derailment and subsequent collision inside a tunnel, that sounds like something catastrophic. To get away with a few minor injuries is very fortunate.

[ruggedpeak]

Going back to an earlier point about vegetation and rain, these so called 'freak' rain events are nothing of the sort over the last few years IMHO. I work in property and over the last 7-8 years have had a huge increase in basic building defects becoming serious problems due to these events. A typical commercial portal frame shed with clad sides and sheet roof will never have been properly watertight, but 'normal' UK style rain events (at least in London and the SE) would not throw up any leaks worth worrying about. These newer rain events that are occuring several times a year now are turning a slight damp patch into a serious building defect. Increasing amounts of my time is spent dealing with leaking roofs and basements due to the effects of these huge downpours that 10 years ago were not heavy enough for serious water penetration. This is purely anecdotal but my maintenance regimes have had to adapt to this as when sheets of water start coming down the inside of a shed onto electrics it gets interesting. It also coincides with cost saving reductions in planned maintenance, yet these events demand all water related building components are kept properly maintained (e.g. gutters, gulleys, drains, downpipes etc) as they are now being asked to operate at beyond design capacity quite regularly.

 

In terms of the railway, low level vegetation is fundamental to stabilising slopes, by protecting the ground from direct impact of rain, reducing overland flow and roots binding the ground. This is geography 101, and there are plenty of techniques available from around the world to stabilise slopes that could be used. The stupidity of NR in its periodic lineside slashing of trees and vegetation (often during the bird nesting season!) is hardly sophisticated and presumably driven by the need to reduce delays due to leaves on the line. However removal of all vegetation can lead to hillsides being on the line. Perhaps some NR engineers can have a sabbatical to the Indian hill railways during the monsoon!

[The Stationmaster]

Going back to an earlier point about vegetation and rain, these so called 'freak' rain events are nothing of the sort over the last few years IMHO. I work in property and over the last 7-8 years have had a huge increase in basic building defects becoming serious problems due to these events. A typical commercial portal frame shed with clad sides and sheet roof will never have been properly watertight, but 'normal' UK style rain events (at least in London and the SE) would not throw up any leaks worth worrying about. These newer rain events that are occuring several times a year now are turning a slight damp patch into a serious building defect. Increasing amounts of my time is spent dealing with leaking roofs and basements due to the effects of these huge downpours that 10 years ago were not heavy enough for serious water penetration. This is purely anecdotal but my maintenance regimes have had to adapt to this as when sheets of water start coming down the inside of a shed onto electrics it gets interesting. It also coincides with cost saving reductions in planned maintenance, yet these events demand all water related building components are kept properly maintained (e.g. gutters, gulleys, drains, downpipes etc) as they are now being asked to operate at beyond design capacity quite regularly.

 

In terms of the railway, low level vegetation is fundamental to stabilising slopes, by protecting the ground from direct impact of rain, reducing overland flow and roots binding the ground. This is geography 101, and there are plenty of techniques available from around the world to stabilise slopes that could be used. The stupidity of NR in its periodic lineside slashing of trees and vegetation (often during the bird nesting season!) is hardly sophisticated and presumably driven by the need to reduce delays due to leaves on the line. However removal of all vegetation can lead to hillsides being on the line. Perhaps some NR engineers can have a sabbatical to the Indian hill railways during the monsoon!

 

The normal situation on most embankments and cutting sides in the past was for them to have low level growth - basically grasses and occasional small bushes - and these were controlled seasonally.  Generally this system was wholly effective however there were some places where the geology was unstable, even when the surface was at, or shallower, than the natural angle of repose and various means of dealing with this were used mainly - from observation using other material to stabilise the slope and by improving drainage or providing partial retaining walls in the worst instances.

 

Again in my experience there were a number of places with a history of bank slips and these were carefully watched for signs of movement - I note that NR is now using what appear to be laser based (?) systems at some such sites while in recent years they have done an enormous amount to tackle longstanding slip prone sites which were long overdue attention.  But at the same time the menace of lineside tree growth has been allowed to runaway and is only now - in the past year or two - being tackled but a consequence of this is that established root systems are left and die thus destabilising previously stable slopes.  Another area which probably needs to be tackled is drainage - particularly where water flow off adjacent land has increased for non-railway reasons; not for nothing were there organised 'Slip & Drainage' gangs and engineers in the past railway civil engineers depts. 

[phil-b259]

But at the same time the menace of lineside tree growth has been allowed to runaway and is only now - in the past year or two - being tackled but a consequence of this is that established root systems are left and die thus destabilising previously stable slopes.  Another area which probably needs to be tackled is drainage - particularly where water flow off adjacent land has increased for non-railway reasons; not for nothing were there organised 'Slip & Drainage' gangs and engineers in the past railway civil engineers depts. 

 

Indeed - but as we all know, when the accountants demand savings - vegetation clearance is an easy thing to offer up for sacrifice (as opposed to say p-way or signalling resources). The thing is unlike some other disciplines vegetation clearance is not that easy to mechanise (and requires climbing skills / equipment when dealing with steep areas).

 

In a similar vein, the the number of places where vegetation is obscuring road signs - particularly on the trunk road network 'looked after' by Highways England has increased rapidly since someone decided that maintenance of highway verges was 'unnecessary'. Another downside is the proliferation of litter, shredded tyres etc (which has parallels with railway scrap littering the lineside) simply being left to disappear into the undergrowth.

[Gwiwer]

 the menace of lineside tree growth has been allowed to runaway and is only now - in the past year or two - being tackled but a consequence of this is that established root systems are left and die thus destabilising previously stable slopes.  

 

 

Watford Tunnels are cut through chalk which is soft and in some areas crumbly.  It is highly porous and accommodates relatively free passage of water.  But when it dries out it become readily friable and can easily become unstable on an exposed surface.  The next heavy rain will typically cause some loosened material to be washed down .......

 

I wondered earlier this year just what thinking had been applied to management of the deep and near-vertical cutting between Hove Tunnel and Holland Road, Brighton.  This too is through chalk and has been known to suffer minor falls over the years.  It had been allowed to become severely overgrown with mature trees sprouting from the rock and their roots exploiting every crack.  Those trees are now dying and drying stumps; the roots will wither and shrink.  What then will happen with the vast amount of cracked chalk?  I'm not sure exactly how close the buildings are on either side but the attached screen shot, from before the tree cutting, suggests that along Addison Road in particular there isn't much room for a fall before homes end up on the line below.  And a train emerging from Hove Tunnel (albeit only at slow to moderate speed) would have about zero chance of avoiding an impact .........

 

[Silver Sidelines]

As regards damage to the properties I do believe it depends on whether the houses were built before or after the cutting.

. there isn't much room for a fall before homes end up on the line below. . .........

 

Then of course has the 'railway company' subsequently altered the cutting.  More pound notes for the legal profession?

 

Ray

[corneliuslundie]

There is of course another aspect to trees. Most people reading this will remember "Plant a tree for 73". Increasing our tree cover was seen as urgent. Hence the National Forest and other initiatives. The river authorities are currently talking about extensive planting to slow down run off into rivers and reduce flooding (as well as putting bacjk the wiggles which were taken out to speed flow!). This influences current attitudes to lineside trees, so that the "average" passenger probably thinks that having lineside trees is a good thing, especially if they have read about the ability of trees to slow down run off. I fear it is only railway enthusiasts who ever want to look out of train windows.

So while BR and then Railtrack and NR were certainly cutting back on vegetation clearance to save money, it also chimed with public perceptions about trees being "good". And as has been said, installation of CWR made lineside gangs unnecessary for their main function, and no-one really thought about the rest of what they did.

At the same time, there is a lot more concreting over of land away from the railway which speeds up run off (in another context the River Mole flood of the 1960s was certainly made much worse by the building of Crawley. Here at Watford, there is clear evidence of concreting of surfaces on the aerodrome site, But if you own Leavesden, run-off onto the railway id not your problem.

Add to that increased frequency of "100 year" storms, and one has a problem, and not just on the railways.

Jonathan

[Reorte]

... so that the "average" passenger probably thinks that having lineside trees is a good thing, especially if they have read about the ability of trees to slow down run off.

That'll be the same average passenger who thinks that leaves on the line is a joke problem.

[Lee]

Watford Tunnels are cut through chalk which is soft and in some areas crumbly.  It is highly porous and accommodates relatively free passage of water.  But when it dries out it become readily friable and can easily become unstable on an exposed surface.  The next heavy rain will typically cause some loosened material to be washed down .......

 

I wondered earlier this year just what thinking had been applied to management of the deep and near-vertical cutting between Hove Tunnel and Holland Road, Brighton.  This too is through chalk and has been known to suffer minor falls over the years.  It had been allowed to become severely overgrown with mature trees sprouting from the rock and their roots exploiting every crack.  Those trees are now dying and drying stumps; the roots will wither and shrink.  What then will happen with the vast amount of cracked chalk?  I'm not sure exactly how close the buildings are on either side but the attached screen shot, from before the tree cutting, suggests that along Addison Road in particular there isn't much room for a fall before homes end up on the line below.  And a train emerging from Hove Tunnel (albeit only at slow to moderate speed) would have about zero chance of avoiding an impact .........

 

 

Somehow I don't think the residents will allow NR to cut these down without a fight. These are the same residents that complained about the use of horns while entering the tunnel.

[Gwiwer]

Somehow I don't think the residents will allow NR to cut these down without a fight. These are the same residents that complained about the use of horns while entering the tunnel.

 

 

Most of them have already gone from within the railway boundary.  On the aerial shot it's hard to determine which side of the fence those trees are rooted though many are (were) on the railway side; the cutting is noticeably bare when seen from the train which was not the case a year ago.  There has always been a small amount of fallen chalk at the foot of the cutting walls.  I wouldn't like to suggest it's become more than normal recently.  Residents can complain all they like; trains have sounded warnings prior to entering the tunnel since it has been there.  Since the late 1960s those have been toots on the horn.  

[Oldddudders]

Most people reading this will remember "Plant a tree for 73". 

 

Not convinced about that. I think the RMweb age profile is a little lower than that implies. 

 

And so most people won't recall the radio show the following year that suggested "Take a saw in '74!"

[Gwiwer]

Not convinced about that. I think the RMweb age profile is a little lower than that implies. 

 

And so most people won't recall the radio show the following year that suggested "Take a saw in '74!"

 

 

There was a longer term view which went

"Plant a tree in 73, plant some more in 74, let then survive until 75 then chop them to sticks in 76"

[Reorte]

Residents can complain all they like; trains have sounded warnings prior to entering the tunnel since it has been there.  Since the late 1960s those have been toots on the horn.  

Even if the houses are new the railway has been there longer than anyone has been alive, so we're in to "moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise" territory regardless. Now I just need to not mention the dual carriageway that's rather close to my house

[hayfield]

There seems to be two conflicting arguments here, one being trees and undergrowth are the problem, the other is that cutting down the trees and shrubs is the problems

 

On TV when there have been these terrible landslides in the third world deforestation is the cause for the ground becoming unstable, due to the roots being able to knit together and hold the soil in position.

 

Now we are being told the roots break up the subsoil causing erosion

 

Looking at the photos all the trees and shrubs have been removed and some form of netting is in place to retain the soil. I grew up beside the Euston line in BR days, I never saw any permanent way staff cutting down the shrubs and trees, though there were very few trees if any and the sparks from engines set the banks alight anyway, but from memory had none of these land slides

 

Could it be that the vegetation is removed to stop leaves on the line, which in turn makes these embankments more prone to landslips ? And as said with more and more land being covered over with concrete and after very dry spells when rail runs off rather than soaks in should we expect further occurrences like this?

[ejstubbs]

As regards damage to the properties I do believe it depends on whether the houses were built before or after the cutting.

 

It's clear from the OS six-inch map published in 1880 that the railway was there long before any residential roads were laid alongside the cutting.  Addison Road doesn't appear until the 1912 edition.

[Silver Sidelines]

I have to agree

..and over the last 7-8 years have had a huge increase in basic building defects becoming serious problems due to these events. ....... These newer rain events that are occuring several times a year now are turning a slight damp patch into a serious building defect..

For interest we have been monitoring water levels in three boreholes in an open field on sands and gravels.  There is a significant change in December 2015 coinciding with 'Desmond'. It is only now, nine months later that levels are returning to levels of the previous year - but the ground water is stlil a touch higher.

BH No.           1          2        3
GL (m) AOD 14       12      15
Date        Depth to Water Level (m)
22.07.14  6.180  3.050  5.480
29.07.14  6.220  3.140  5.490
06.08.14  6.240  3.190  5.480
12.08.14  6.220  3.220  5.510
19.08.14  6.250  3.220  5.520
26.08.14  6.290  3.330  5.540
14.07.15  5.920   n/a      5.510
14.08.15  6.000  2.870  5.510
14.09.15  6.056  2.944  5.485
20.10.15  6.205  3.160  5.480
16.11.15  5.275  2.115  4.545
15.12.15  4.170  1.370  4.520
15.01.16  3.810  1.150  4.400
17.02.16  4.245  1.370  4.955
16.03.16  4.890  1.930  5.370
18.04.16  5.165  2.090  5.340
16.05.16  5.560  2.405  5.470
17.06.16  5.850  2.730  5.490
15.07.16  6.020  2.920  5.550
16.08.16  6.050  3.100  5.480

Table 1 - Ground water rest levels from standpipes