Andrew P Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 A Peco catalogue came yesterday so I have been watching your video again. You have made good use of the PL-11 surface mounted point motor and PL-26 passing contact changeover switches in the PL-50 multi-switch mounting frame. Definitely the way to go for Carrog. I have also looked at the Peco SmartSwitch surface mounted servo for changing points or signals. I wonder if anyone has used these, and do they activate things slowly? In fact, can the speed of throw be controlled? Larry, Smart switches are a bit technical for me, but I'm sure someone on here will have used them, in fact I think Martin / Gismorail from Carrog has used them on his Chumley End Layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2017 A Peco catalogue came yesterday so I have been watching your video again. You have made good use of the PL-11 surface mounted point motor and PL-26 passing contact changeover switches in the PL-50 multi-switch mounting frame. Definitely the way to go for Carrog. I have also looked at the Peco SmartSwitch surface mounted servo for changing points or signals. I wonder if anyone has used these, and do they activate things slowly? In fact, can the speed of throw be controlled? I've not actually looked at this type, but yes, the speed of servos are normally controlled by the 'controller'. On something like a Tortoise you apply power one way or the other and the switch moves at the rate power is supplied. With a servo, there is a controller board fitted between the power supply and servo, which controls how far it moves (both directions) and usually the speed at which you want it to move at. Servos can move very fast, very slow, or anywhere in between! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Thanks Rich. Well suited to signals then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Thanks Rich. Well suited to signals then. Yes very well suited. If you've seen Jon Fitness' O gauge signals on this thread he uses cheap Hobby King servos to control each individual arm, and has had almost perfect reliability. To be honest they are so cheap even if they failed after 12 months, its a throw away and fit a new one situation, but Jon's experience suggests thats not the case and they have been very reliable over a long period. There are a number of options ( and I think MERG do a board too if you like electronics) but Megapoints do a simple plug in board - really easy to work, you don't need to know electronics, and the chap behind it is really helpful. The board has power in, and then one lead to each servo, that plugs into the board (if you can plug in a mains plug you can plug these in!) then there are a couple of push buttons that allow you to set each individual servo up ... I think the board will work 8 servos. For each servo you can configure how far left and right it goes, and (I think) speed, but don't hold me to the last one. You can also configure whether its points or a semaphore signal, and the latter you get a bounce action on reset. I worked out that eight new Tortoise point motors were £128 ish, where as the Megapoints board is £60, and the Servos are £1.80 each - so around £50 cheaper. Also, lets say you have 10 points on your layout, but two pairs are crossovers that could be worked together, then you only need one mega points board - you can purchase a 'Y' cable and activate two servos from the same terminal. The downside is that each will operate at the same time, and both will have the same movement settings, but that isn't normally an issue for crossovers. Course you can also work gates and barriers with servos as well. I also like servos because they are cheap, really easy to set up, don't need electronics knowledge and the extension cables and wiring can be acquired from loads of places on the web, as they've been used for years on remote control planes and cars - so plenty of options. The megapoints board also has an add on to respond to DCC signals if you wanted it. Any queries - shout! Rich Edited February 16, 2017 by MarshLane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2017 The megapoint sevo driver has a built in bounce for signals which is random so the bounce isn't exactly the same. I have one and work had started but stalled pending a move. The movement seems very realistic on pulling off there is a slight pause to replicate the bobby taking the strain then pulling off. I dont know about changing the speed but I don't think you would need to it seems very realistic. This is a Hobby King servo I am intending to use on a ground signal and being designed to drop into a slot on the baseboard with the signal mounted on the top. With the Megapoint the servo is set for zero movement before its connected up to whatever it is operating. Once connected to the device and plugged into the same channel the movement can now be increased. In both directions to get the operation right. Done that way the signal or whatever doesn't get wrecked trying to set up the movement. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I am going to have to look into these Hornby King servo's.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 I am going to have to look into these Hornby King servo's.... I think you'll find it's HOBBY King Larry. But yes well worth a look and thanks for all the info on here Guys, you can keep it going on here if you wish Guys as BS is asleep at the moment, but will be back out of Hibernation soon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I am going to have to look into these Hornby King servo's.... Hi Larry - it is Hobby King ... link if your interested, they've gone up slightly, but I doubt 8p breaks the bank! https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk15178-analog-servo-1-4kg-0-09sec-10g.html I think you'll find it's HOBBY King Larry. But yes well worth a look and thanks for all the info on here Guys, you can keep it going on here if you wish Guys as BS is asleep at the moment, but will be back out of Hibernation soon. Sorry for hijacking the thread Andy ... hope your enjoying sorting things out, looking for your next update on Beale Street. Rich Edited February 16, 2017 by MarshLane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hi Larry - it is Hobby King ... link if your interested, they've gone up slightly, but I doubt 8p breaks the bank! https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingtm-hk15178-analog-servo-1-4kg-0-09sec-10g.html Sorry for hijacking the thread Andy ... hope your enjoying sorting things out, looking for your next update on Beale Street. Rich Hi Rich and Thanks, As I say, please keep the conversation going on here if you want, whilst BS Sleeps BS will go back to being smaller and having seen and been inspired by some highly detailed small Layouts it will be a challenge. It will probably be back to 8ft x 18 inches inc F/Y and something like this I showed some time back. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted February 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2017 Hi Rich and Thanks, As I say, please keep the conversation going on here if you want, whilst BS Sleeps BS will go back to being smaller and having seen and been inspired by some highly detailed small Layouts it will be a challenge. It will probably be back to 8ft x 18 inches inc F/Y and something like this I showed some time back. Re Plan 2 002.JPG I prefer snoozes to sleep Lol! Its important to get it how you want, and providing the interest and operational level that YOU are looking for. Keep going, you'll get there in the end, and its all fun in the meantime! Although if your anything like me, you go through too many rainforests of paper, old envelopes and beer mats with potential scribbles on! lol! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I think you'll find it's HOBBY King Larry. Dam dylexia.....I emailed a pal to tell him 'Cohen the Destroyer' was on Tele. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Railway modeller carried an article not so long back on how to use Peco servos to power a signal. I was impressed enough to think I will try one when I build the signals for Black Notley Paul R 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 'Cohen the Destroyer' was on Tele. That's a film I'd pay to see 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Try this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhQ6weGjFI Cohen's scrap yard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Railway modeller carried an article not so long back on how to use Peco servos to power a signal. I was impressed enough to think I will try one when I build the signals for Black Notley Paul R I used PECO servos to operate the semaphore signals on Cwm Bach. The Youtube video shows the signal in action and the photo shows the servo installation under the board. I have found them simple to use and the pack contains all that is required to install and calibrate the servos. . Regards, CK 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Is it just me or what, Peco don't seem to mention any of this on their website. If it wasn't for this thread I would still be in the dark about what servos are capable of. It all looks very interesting though my small layout has no need of them, at the moment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andi4x4 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Is it just me or what, Peco don't seem to mention any of this on their website. If it wasn't for this thread I would still be in the dark about what servos are capable of. It all looks very interesting though my small layout has no need of them, at the moment. Hi Paul, Do a search for "Peco Smart Switch" - a little misleading, but, it is there ! Here's the link to the Smart Switch pages on the Peco website - http://www.peco-uk.com/prodtype.asp?strParents=3309,3337&CAT_ID=3363&numRecordPosition=1 You don't specifically need to use the Peco servos (although there may be a maximum power limit), the connectors are pretty much standard across the format with almost all servo manufacturers, but, there are a couple of differences with cable colour coding. There is one servo manufacturer who uses a different pin order in the plugs, but, adapter cables are readily available from most RC outlets, and another manufacturer who uses an almost identical plug which has an extra locating tab which may need to be trimmed off if you are using it, or, again, adapter cables are available. As Brian mentioned, there are 'Y' splitter leads to allow more than one servo to operate simultaneously (in the same direction) from one channel, and you can also get 'Servo Reversers' which, when used with a 'Y' cable will enable two servos to operate in opposite directions off a single channel. Micro servos can be picked up for less than £2 each, but, beware - I have purchased servos in the past which have cost in excess of £100 each ! Tower and JP are two brands to look out for as being cheap and reliable, and, as they are commonly used in modern 'indoor' ultralight model aircraft, they should be available at your local RC shop (probably about £6 each), or from China (well under £2 each) if you are prepared to wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2017 Is it just me or what, Peco don't seem to mention any of this on their website. If it wasn't for this thread I would still be in the dark about what servos are capable of. It all looks very interesting though my small layout has no need of them, at the moment. The use of servos for model railway use are now quite widespread with several producers - Tam Valley, ANE(Make Peco's Products), MERG, providing control boards etc. However, it is not always plain sailing and as far as the Peco Smartswitch is concerned you might find this thread interesting: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88415-experience-with-peco-smartswitch/ There are those like me that have given up the struggle and 'hack' servos (strip out the electronics) to provide what is needed, (cheaper/simpler in the main). This is my current version: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112916-hacked-servo-point-control/ Izzy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andi4x4 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 The use of servos for model railway use are now quite widespread with several producers - Tam Valley, ANE(Make Peco's Products), MERG, providing control boards etc. However, it is not always plain sailing and as far as the Peco Smartswitch is concerned you might find this thread interesting: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88415-experience-with-peco-smartswitch/ There are those like me that have given up the struggle and 'hack' servos (strip out the electronics) to provide what is needed, (cheaper/simpler in the main). This is my current version: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112916-hacked-servo-point-control/ Izzy What are the chances of connecting these modified servos directly to a DDC Accessory decoder ? My decoders will operate a dc motor for turntables, etc, and operating time is adjustable to suit the application, so, could possibly be used to limit servo movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted February 18, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2017 What are the chances of connecting these modified servos directly to a DDC Accessory decoder ? My decoders will operate a dc motor for turntables, etc, and operating time is adjustable to suit the application, so, could possibly be used to limit servo movement. I guess it could be possible using just the basic hacked servo if they are adustable for the servo operating voltage of between 1.5v -5v (which of course controls the speed/rate of movement). I have used previously made versions using microswitches at 1.5v for slo-mo action using fine sprung piano wire to absorb excess movement past the end stops needed to keep the nature of the setup simple. Once you start down the accessory decoder route it all becomes quite expensive and more involved. I always try and keep to the KISS principle if I can for both cost and reliability. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andi4x4 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I guess it could be possible using just the basic hacked servo if they are adustable for the servo operating voltage of between 1.5v -5v (which of course controls the speed/rate of movement). I have used previously made versions using microswitches at 1.5v for slo-mo action using fine sprung piano wire to absorb excess movement past the end stops needed to keep the nature of the setup simple. Once you start down the accessory decoder route it all becomes quite expensive and more involved. I always try and keep to the KISS principle if I can for both cost and reliability. Izzy I agree with KISS principle ! I have Seeps and decoders on my 00 gauge layout, mainly because I wanted to minimize the number of wires at baseboard joints due to the layout needing to be quick and easy to dismantle/set up, and to keep initial construction simple to speed the build. (The fact that I haven't had chance to touch it for nearly a fortnight isn't helping in that respect ! ) I was also planning to make a move from PC control to the Cobalt Alpha system to give me a more traditional control panel. I was looking at quieter options for another project I have on the drawing board, which, again, will need to be quick and easy to set up and take down, and again, am looking at a more traditional control panel set up from the outset. There won't be too much wiring to do on this new project as it will likely involve no more than a dozen points in total, but, I am thinking about those wonderful connectors that Martin (Gizmorail) has used on his Chumley End layout - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114855-chumley-end/page-7&do=findComment&comment=2609067 - they would speed things up no end ! Edited February 18, 2017 by andi4x4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I agree with KISS principle ! I have Seeps and decoders on my 00 gauge layout, mainly because I wanted to minimize the number of wires at baseboard joints due to the layout needing to be quick and easy to dismantle/set up, and to keep initial construction simple to speed the build. (The fact that I haven't had chance to touch it for nearly a fortnight isn't helping in that respect ! ) I was also planning to make a move from PC control to the Cobalt Alpha system to give me a more traditional control panel. I was looking at quieter options for another project I have on the drawing board, which, again, will need to be quick and easy to set up and take down, and again, am looking at a more traditional control panel set up from the outset. There won't be too much wiring to do on this new project as it will likely involve no more than a dozen points in total, but, I am thinking about those wonderful connectors that Martin (Gizmorail) has used on his Chumley End layout - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114855-chumley-end/page-7&do=findComment&comment=2609067 - they would speed things up no end ! Thanks for that and i can confirm they are good 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The Megapoints Controller mentioned above can control up to 12 servos (points or semaphore with bounce), or relays or mixture of both. There's an add on for controlling seep type motors and if you want control from DCC theres a DCC interface. Inputs are from conventional toggle switches. Several boards can be 'networked' together and controlled from a single 'mimic panel' which reduces wiring on a large layout considerably. It's a very versatile system and worth a look. http://megapointscontrollers.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The MERG Servo4 controller is much the cheapest option at GBP5.25 per 4 servos, though you have to be a MERG member and solder the kit together yourself, and it does not have signal bounce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Some interesting info from you all, although most of means nothing to me, as I will just use Peco Motors on Peco Points on Beale St. Edited February 23, 2017 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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