Hornby announce Class 800 IEP

[GEOEng03]

The parts are new C Clips that keep the bogies on. All new sets will have the mod already done.....not sure if we have to do the mod on existing sets or send them back....it's not a difficult thing to do. Hornby aren't aware of the decoder fitment issue as they've designed it to take one of their decoders and speakers....which is ok if you want a crap sounding IEP!

Thanks Mike, Be interesting to see how long they hold to all the returned sets for and whether this is a UK or China modification.

Shame about sounds as well - considering it has holes in the chassis floor - suggests it is sound ready.

 

I wonder when the other main players other than Olivias are to do the sound file as well. Do we know if his is a genuine recording as well..

Edited March 26, 2018 by GEOEng03

[Budgie]

Better than refusing to admit there's a problem I would have thought.

 

And if the washers really are in production already, that's quite impressive.

How do we get hold of a set of these washers?

[dibber25]

How do we get hold of a set of these washers?

 

Contact Hornby? 

[Legend]

Maybe they'll announce it when they've got them in stock . Its ridiculous that its the consumer that's got to take the initiative and contact them! Hopefully they'll put some statement out or it will appear in model press .

Edited March 26, 2018 by Legend

[Godfrey Glyn]

Maybe they'll announce it when they've got them in stock . Its ridiculous that its the consumer that's got to take the initiative and contact them! Hopefully they'll put some statement out or it will appear in model press .

 

In the past Hornby used to inform their retailers and send them the new spares or ask them to be sent back for the modification to be done. When the first re-built Merchant Navies were released the smokebox door was incorrect. Bob at Alton was sent new ones which could be fitted by him or the customer. At other times I have sent back stock to Hornby via the shop and it has been returned fully repaired, often well after the warranty period. I have never been charged. 

 

I cannot see how Hornby would know that you had bought a Class 800, unless you bought it direct from them only the retailer would know that you had a set that needed the modification.

 

Godfrey

[dibber25]

Maybe they'll announce it when they've got them in stock . Its ridiculous that its the consumer that's got to take the initiative and contact them! Hopefully they'll put some statement out or it will appear in model press .

 

It is possible that this may not be an easy 'consumer-fix' and that Hornby will wish to deal with it under warranty arrangements. It may also be that it does not affect the whole run, and that the majority of models are not affected. When I tweaked my set to deal with the derailment issue, I considered increasing the ride height but accessing the bogie mountings requires a lot of dismantling and the bogies themselves have pick-ups and wiring. In my case, I was able to resolve the issue without doing anything more drastic than a slight loosening of the coupler screws. (see post 502) (CJL)

[Legend]

In the past Hornby used to inform their retailers and send them the new spares or ask them to be sent back for the modification to be done. When the first re-built Merchant Navies were released the smokebox door was incorrect. Bob at Alton was sent new ones which could be fitted by him or the customer. At other times I have sent back stock to Hornby via the shop and it has been returned fully repaired, often well after the warranty period. I have never been charged. 

 

I cannot see how Hornby would know that you had bought a Class 800, unless you bought it direct from them only the retailer would know that you had a set that needed the modification.

 

Godfrey

Cheers Godfrey. Hornby can't be expected to know who bought an IET or who has problems with them, but they could make a general announcement in Engine Shed, their website, on here , in a magazine , advising that there are issues and how to get in touch with them. Otherwise there may well be people who have bought a £395 model who miss out.

[royaloak]

If they are indeed C clips then there wont be any dismantling required, just let the bogie hang down and gently press the C clip onto the bogie stem, easy squeezy.

 

Edot-

This only applies to the trailing bogies, not the motorised ones. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by royaloak

[dibber25]

If they are indeed C clips then there wont be any dismantling required, just let the bogie hang down and gently press the C clip onto the bogie stem, easy squeezy.

 

Edot-

This only applies to the trailing bogies, not the motorised ones. 

 

If there was sufficient play in the bogie to allow you to do that, there wouldn't be a problem. On mine, anything inserted on the bogie pivot, by way of a washer or circlip, would seize the whole thing solid. Increasing the ride height would require attention from inside the car, but I found an easier solution to the problem anyway, although I appreciate that if you have sharper curves or more pronounced changes of gradient my 'fix' might not work for you. (CJL)

Edited March 26, 2018 by dibber25

[Vistisen]

Maybe they'll announce it when they've got them in stock . Its ridiculous that its the consumer that's got to take the initiative and contact them! Hopefully they'll put some statement out or it will appear in model press .

What you mean you'd rather that all retailers had to agree to pass on your personal details to their suppliers?

[Legend]

What you mean you'd rather that all retailers had to agree to pass on your personal details to their suppliers?

Nope.

[roythebus]

Just wondering, are the plastic seats in the Hornby model more comfortable than the prototype?

[Revolution Mike B]

If there was sufficient play in the bogie to allow you to do that, there wouldn't be a problem. On mine, anything inserted on the bogie pivot, by way of a washer or circlip, would seize the whole thing solid. Increasing the ride height would require attention from inside the car, but I found an easier solution to the problem anyway, although I appreciate that if you have sharper curves or more pronounced changes of gradient my 'fix' might not work for you. (CJL)

 

This is exactly what they've come up with. The bogie will have a spacer inserted and I'm guessing that it's a very small shim, in the shape of a C Clip as described by Hornby at Ally Pally. They also said that they had no issues at all on their test track with it derailing. 

 

For me personally, it's quite remarkable that a £400 model can be released with such a major flaw, which Hornby consider to be a minor issue, along with 30% of the people that have bought it, and even just as remarkable that some folk expect it to happily traverse toy train curves! 

[tetsudofan]

Just got an email and text saying that my Hornby Spares parcel will be delivered by DPD tomorrow. No other information received but presume it refers to the Class 800 that I returned as I have not ordered any other spares.

 

Keith

[tetsudofan]

For those wondering the Hornby fix is a washer, to increase the ride height of the coach. Currently being manufactured, 

 

I would not read to much into the recent deliveries of a 800/1 and two 800/2s from Japan. These are 'Pre-Series' units and delivered under the TTS document, and would of always been in DfT Grey as they are a Hitachi unit - some of the last units to be delivered after extensive testing for Agility Trains East. The current 800/1 (101) and the 801s (801101, 102 & 201) are also 'Pre-Series'.

 

Though between friends, it is now a DfT intention to not have a brand on the ongoing franchise. But then, it is Stagecoach's intention to continue the Virgin brand. We shall see the outcome shortly, yet the first production bodies are about to start manufacturing in Japan (after the final 800/3s). 

 

Its interesting that you mention that the fix is a washer to increase the ride height of the coach. One thing that I did notice with mine is that when on the track the cantrail lining did not line up perfectly but more noticeable was that the corridor connection tops were not the same height. Pictures not that great but think they show what I'm trying to talk about:

 

 

 

It will be interesting to see how the cantrail lining, corridor connection tops and rooflines line up after the washers have been fitted.

[dibber25]

Check the fit of the body on the chassis. Alignment issues may be due to one body shell not being located properly on its clips. If the body is pushed too far down on the clips, this will cause the bogie to snag on the bottom edge of the body. (CJL)

[Coryton]

For me personally, it's quite remarkable that a £400 model can be released with such a major flaw, which Hornby consider to be a minor issue, along with 30% of the people that have bought it, and even just as remarkable that some folk expect it to happily traverse toy train curves! 

 

Given that Hornby sell it as suitable for "2nd radius" curves then I think it is reasonable to expect it to cope.

[GEOEng03]

This is exactly what they've come up with. The bogie will have a spacer inserted and I'm guessing that it's a very small shim, in the shape of a C Clip as described by Hornby at Ally Pally. They also said that they had no issues at all on their test track with it derailing. 

 

For me personally, it's quite remarkable that a £400 model can be released with such a major flaw, which Hornby consider to be a minor issue, along with 30% of the people that have bought it, and even just as remarkable that some folk expect it to happily traverse toy train curves! 

Fully agree with you.  You certainly shouldn't have to go to the level of fix that has been done on this forum and I don't care when people say as modellers that we should be able to fix at that price. As excellent as the model is, very disappointing that there has been more than just a few reports of the same issues.

 

I don't want to knock them regarding this, but it is the little things, like this and the pantograph that wont stay in place and is plastic that ruin what is a superb model.

[tetsudofan]

Check the fit of the body on the chassis. Alignment issues may be due to one body shell not being located properly on its clips. If the body is pushed too far down on the clips, this will cause the bogie to snag on the bottom edge of the body. (CJL)

Appreciate what you say but I can't do what you suggest as the model was returned to Hornby after the above pictures were taken and won't be back with me until tomorrow. It will then be possible for me to see what Hornby have done.

 

The coaches were not played about with when they were in my hands and, as such, the pictures as taken above were taken as the coaches came out of the box.

 

Keith

[metadyneman]

Just stumbled across this topic. I took delivery of my 800 several weeks ago and experienced all the derailment problems described above. I had no idea that Hornby have acknowledged the problem and have found a "fix". Unfortunately I have already made a few "modifications" myself which has involved a needle file, a few well chosen swear words and a lot of patience!  never mind eh... still looks nice and runs like a dream!  Incidentally the couplings between the coaches don't allow for any vertical track undulation and this exacerbates the aforementioned derailing problem by physically lifting the following coach off the track due to the length of the coaches. Loosening the coupling screw does alleviate the problem a little bit but if your track isn't completely flat then you are going to experience problems.  

[Oakydoke]

I find it quite astonishing that some people have attempted to fettle or modify their faulty new Class 800 models.

Equally baffling that people are hanging on to them, waiting for Hornby to deliver parts to enable a fix.

Why on earth have all these models not been returned back to the retailers, as faulty products, for a full refund?

[Legend]

I find it quite astonishing that some people have attempted to fettle or modify their faulty new Class 800 models.

Equally baffling that people are hanging on to them, waiting for Hornby to deliver parts to enable a fix.

Why on earth have all these models not been returned back to the retailers, as faulty products, for a full refund?

Completely agree. That’s what Hornby rely on that folk will just get on with it and somehow fix their defective product. It is possible that some people don’t know it’s a widespread problem , because there has been no communication, and just think it’s their layout and they need to do something to get their train to run properly.

[Ian Hargrave]

It should be remembered that many members of this forum are modellers...i.e fettlers....it's what they do...engraved in their DNA if you like.Thus if there's a problem,they want to solve it just as some like Dibber 25 have done.I don't think it's fair to criticise them.

 

I have a great respect for Hornby's R&D team.This must be a disappointment for them.Nonetheless,I note that the IEP coupling has insufficient vertical play to negotiate variations in track height such as,in my case at least,baseboard joins.If I read the thread correctly,the unit needs a constant billiard board level to operate as it should without coming to grief.How many of us have those ?

 

Unit coupling in model form conveying current is not new.Sorry to quote the competition but Bachmann have successfully designed such for everyday use on all kinds of layout for a good many years with its EMU's,Midland Pullman,4TC etc. Never had a problem with any of those.Perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain to me why this cannot be the case with the IEP.Yes I know it's a different prototype,the accurate modelling of which does present a different challenge.However........

[Revolution Mike B]

It should be remembered that many members of this forum are modellers...i.e fettlers....it's what they do...engraved in their DNA if you like.Thus if there's a problem,they want to solve it just as some like Dibber 25 have done.I don't think it's fair to criticise them.

 

I have a great respect for Hornby's R&D team.This must be a disappointment for them.Nonetheless,I note that the IEP coupling has insufficient vertical play to negotiate variations in track height such as,in my case at least,baseboard joins.If I read the thread correctly,the unit needs a constant billiard board level to operate as it should without coming to grief.How many of us have those ?

 

Unit coupling in model form conveying current is not new.Sorry to quote the competition but Bachmann have successfully designed such for everyday use on all kinds of layout for a good many years with its EMU's,Midland Pullman,4TC etc. Never had a problem with any of those.Perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain to me why this cannot be the case with the IEP.Yes I know it's a different prototype,the accurate modelling of which does present a different challenge.However........

 

I asked this question at Ally Pally and the answer was - 'the couplings would be too fragile and get broken easily'

[Ian Hargrave]

I asked this question at Ally Pally and the answer was - 'the couplings would be too fragile and get broken easily'

Oh dear.That's not reassuring to say the least and an answer that begs the question of whether this was a possible flaw identifiable at the design stage.In which case some form of caveat should be on the box prior to purchase.Something on the lines of "this model is unsuitable for use on uneven track" . Not good.