Hornby announce Class 800 IEP

[jjb1970]

I am one of those who'd just send it back to the retailer to sort out or for a refund. I think it is a character flaw I have in that when it comes to poor QC or manufacture/design faults I can't be bothered with excuses or rationalising poor quality. I do give some latitude where detail parts come detached in transit or very minor issues that are simple enough to fix without much effort but as a matter of principle I think it is the suppliers job to supply something free of faults and which works. Note that this is very different from the sort of issues of shape, colour etc we usually argue about here where I tend to think you either accept the model as a good enough representation or you don't but it should still work.

[martin_l_jones]

I am one of those who'd just send it back to the retailer to sort out or for a refund. I think it is a character flaw I have in that when it comes to poor QC or manufacture/design faults I can't be bothered with excuses or rationalising poor quality. I do give some latitude where detail parts come detached in transit or very minor issues that are simple enough to fix without much effort but as a matter of principle I think it is the suppliers job to supply something free of faults and which works. Note that this is very different from the sort of issues of shape, colour etc we usually argue about here where I tend to think you either accept the model as a good enough representation or you don't but it should still work.

I was really disappointed in the response I had from ROS who told me to contact Hornby as it wasn’t their problem....

[159220]

I was really disappointed in the response I had from ROS who told me to contact Hornby as it wasn’t their problem....

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 (which replaced the Sales of Good Act 1979) places the retailer as the one who is to sort. I would, if you paid with a Credit Card express my right to reverse the charge back to rails. The only circumstance you would go to Hornby, is if they were the retailer.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

If I'm really honest I am disappointed with Hornby and retailers. 

 

I haven't bought an 800. I was going to but I decided to wait and see what the initial response was on here and when I saw it I decided to save a good £400. 

 

I feel very sorry for people who are lumbered with models with an RRP of nearly £400 each that won't even run around a circuit of track. There is absolutely no excuse for this. Clearly Hornby's testing and test tracks are very basic and minimal and don't account for tighter curves, gradients and other track formations that the majority have people have incorporated onto their layouts. Also the fact that Hornby haven't issued a public statement acknowledging the fault and apologising is disgraceful considering the cost of the model that customers can't even run either whatsoever, or they have to wait for Hornby to rectify the issue and fix it themselves. Hornby should be accepting full liability here and asking for all of the models to be returned to them to be repaired/rectified. Customers shouldn't have to practically beg in some instances for a response to their queries regarding the issue and be constantly waiting for Hornby to respond when they have caused this issue through poor or a lack of QC. 

 

Very, very disappointing Hornby. A model that looks immaculate but yet won't run around a circuit of track without derailing for most owners. You wouldn't think that such a major flaw in relation to the running/movement of a model would go unnoticed and unmissed in 2018. 

 

So not only poor QC but also poor customer service. Come on Hornby sort this out. 

[Black 5 Bear]

To be fair to Hornby, I've always found their customer services staff to be very helpful and willing to go the extra mile to reach a good resolution.

I'm sure the problems with the 800 will be resolved, however they do need to address QC issues with their range more robustly.

[mevaman]

The conversation about this model is typical of that we have at our Club. Some, like me, are happy to accept that Hornby have made a mistake and will fix it in due time. Others are very strident and start quoting consumer law and their rights. Still others vilify the manufacturer.

 

Whilst the model is expensive by historical comparatives, the price point is the new ‘normal’. So we should not get more annoyed because the model costs £400.

 

As the famous advert goes ‘Calm Down Dear’.

 

It may take time but it will be sorted out. For those that are really upset - return the model for a refund. For those that are happy to fettle - carry on. For everyone else ‘Patience is a Virtue’.

 

I am now expecting some angry responses!

 

Andrew

[John ks]

You want an angry response well here's one, it's the word fettle it seems to show up every where now, a couple of months ago I rarely saw it now & its stuck in my head & I don't seem to be able to get away from it.It makes me sooo mildly annoyed.

 

& don't get me started about TLA's it took me months to work out what WCML was, not to mention EPs I thought it was good practise to define the TLA the fist time it was used, opps sorry I'll start again

 

& don't get me started about Three Letter Acronyms(TLA"s)it---------------------------------------------------------

 

John

 

Ps

My 800 run like a treat after I did a bit of --- What's that word that starts with "f" & rhyms with kettling

[Ron Ron Ron]

Could you fettle that post a bit, to make it more readable?

[jjb1970]

The conversation about this model is typical of that we have at our Club. Some, like me, are happy to accept that Hornby have made a mistake and will fix it in due time. Others are very strident and start quoting consumer law and their rights. Still others vilify the manufacturer.

 

Whilst the model is expensive by historical comparatives, the price point is the new ‘normal’. So we should not get more annoyed because the model costs £400.

 

As the famous advert goes ‘Calm Down Dear’.

 

It may take time but it will be sorted out. For those that are really upset - return the model for a refund. For those that are happy to fettle - carry on. For everyone else ‘Patience is a Virtue’.

 

I am now expecting some angry responses!

 

Andrew

If people are happy to live with it and resolve quality issues themselves then that is their choice and I don't see anybody trying to deprive them of that right. That however doesn't alter the fact that if you buy something that doesn't work as advertised then you have every right to just send it back to the retailer. There are advocates of both approaches, however what I would say is that suppliers suffering a cost for inadequate design and/or manufacture is a powerful incentive to get it right to start with. If people are happy to do the suppliers work for them then it doesn't really incentivise them doing better.

[159220]

The conversation about this model is typical of that we have at our Club. Some, like me, are happy to accept that Hornby have made a mistake and will fix it in due time. Others are very strident and start quoting consumer law and their rights. Still others vilify the manufacturer.

Whilst the model is expensive by historical comparatives, the price point is the new ‘normal’. So we should not get more annoyed because the model costs £400.

As the famous advert goes ‘Calm Down Dear’.

It may take time but it will be sorted out. For those that are really upset - return the model for a refund. For those that are happy to fettle - carry on. For everyone else ‘Patience is a Virtue’.

I am now expecting some angry responses!

Andrew

I said some pages ago, I think the way this is being handled by Hornby is most satisfactory. On a discreet case by case service. As I bought direct from Hornby (at much discount), I dealt with them and found their customer service to be friendly and effective. No doubt those who have bought from retailers are having their consumer right honoured when they want to return a faulty item. But at the end of the day, this case by case is coping with this as the vast majority of the Hornby customer are collectors.

 

Ironically I decided to return mine because of a combination of livery errors and running issues. Happily be buying more Hitachi AT300s from Hornby.

[Darius43]

I said some pages ago, I think the way this is being handled by Hornby is most satisfactory. On a discreet case by case service. As I bought direct from Hornby (at much discount), I dealt with them and found their customer service to be friendly and effective. No doubt those who have bought from retailers are having their consumer right honoured when they want to return a faulty item. But at the end of the day, this case by case is coping with this as the vast majority of the Hornby customer are collectors.

Ironically I decided to return mine because of a combination of livery errors and running issues. Happily be buying more Hitachi AT300s from Hornby.

Whilst not a serious in its consequences (at least no one has died from this issue), Hornby’s continued “silence” on this matter reminds me of the recent tumble dryer fires issue where the manufacturer persuaded trading standards to let them resolve it on the quiet instead of having a recall. This to me I another example of the lack of integrity and honesty in public and commercial life these days. I don’t think Hornby is covering itself with glory here - rather with something thicker and smellier.

 

Darius

Edited April 1, 2018 by Darius43

[blueeighties]

Whilst not a serious in its consequences (at least no one has died from this issue), Hornby’s continued “silence” on this matter reminds me of the recent tumble dryer fires issue where the manufacturer persuaded trading standards to let them resolve it on the quiet instead of having a recall. This to me I another example of the lack of integrity and honesty in public and commercial life these days. I don’t think Hornby is covering itself with glory here - rather with something thicker and smellier.

Darius

I had a look at one of these whilst collecting an order from Charlie at DC Kits yesterday. Seeing the issues with running, and also sound fitting leads me to believe that these units are simply not fit for sale.

[bart2day]

I bought direct from Hornby (at much discount),

 

How did you manage to get a big discount when ordering direct from Hornby?

[Legend]

Just contrast this thread with the one on N gauge pendolinos . One contains exuberance and thrill at receiving a new product, the other doesnt

[rob D2]

You want an angry response well here's one, it's the word fettle it seems to show up every where now, a couple of months ago I rarely saw it now & its stuck in my head & I don't seem to be able to get away from it.It makes me sooo mildly annoyed.

 

& don't get me started about TLA's it took me months to work out what WCML was, not to mention EPs I thought it was good practise to define the TLA the fist time it was used, opps sorry I'll start again

 

& don't get me started about Three Letter Acronyms(TLA"s)it---------------------------------------------------------

 

John

 

Ps

My 800 run like a treat after I did a bit of --- What's that word that starts with "f" & rhyms with kettling

 

I think you'll find WCML can't possibly be a TLA.

I think a product recall is in order - this thread is pretty much ruining any chance of me buying one . It should work first time , full stop

[mikeharvey22]

Just contrast this thread with the one on N gauge pendolinos . One contains exuberance and thrill at receiving a new product, the other doesnt

 

Maybe Hornby should have made it in N and subcontracted the design, testing and manufacture to Rapido/RevolutioN Trains or even Kato. Obviously struggling with getting their IEP 800 to work reliably on some 00 gauge layouts. :-)

[jonnyuk]

have lurked on this thread since day dot, i took the plunge and ordered the 5 car set. it arrived a few weeks ago and experienced the same problem as others. i spoke with the supplier (with full knowledge of what they would say and action to take) who said speak with Hornby and return.

i called Hornby, who said straight away said return it, add proof of postage and they will fix it, return it and refund my postage. i spoke with them last week for an update and should be returned this week.

 

Now to my point, Hornby have made a mistake somewhere but they are doing the right think and fixing it. they have obviously put something out to retailers to direct the customer straight to Hornby, this is a good thing as it will keep the retailer happy, Hornby are admitting the product has faults by accepting the return, no questions asked.

 

Things go wrong with new products and this is case in point, however lets get some perspective. How many have they sold, 1500?. how many members on here have bought one? how many members on here have a problem? You find that people only post when something is wrong, not when they are happy.

Edited April 3, 2018 by jonnyuk

[Ian Hargrave]

Thank you for that post 723. It is indeed positive news . They are acting in similar manner to Bachmann when the retooled Class 40 suffered difficulties initially.I will be interested to hear of its performance when it is returned to you....hopefully in good running order.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Maybe Hornby are trying to be too accurate - replicating some of the problems of the prototype IETs..........

[lochlongside]

I had a look at one of these whilst collecting an order from Charlie at DC Kits yesterday. Seeing the issues with running, and also sound fitting leads me to believe that these units are simply not fit for sale.

Must be my day for praising manufacturers (- they'd better make the most of it )

May be I am one of the lucky ones but I have a five car IEP and and have been running it on my test loops and it has not derailed once -  it runs immaculately at speeds well in excess of my APT-E. - indeed  it is so fast I have not dared to try it continuously at the max volts (16vDC measured at o/p of my H&M Safety Minor!!) as I foolishly did not put in any super-elevation -  instead I limit it to 12v - at which speed it will still lap my APT-E even on the outside loop, and it is rock steady..... and looks most impressive - I do agree the coach lights are a bit dim, even at 12v - but then it is going round so fast it generates visual discomfort!!.

As a guide I am using ordinary unmodified Peco Code 75 large radius straight and curved points and Exactoscale BH track and the radii on my main loops are a continuous  curve of 4.5ft out to around 6 ft in places (average 5ft approx) and on each circuit it is traversing up to 6 straight/curved large radius facing and trailing crossovers. Its performance at speed is enough for me to consider sending my current bete noire (Hattons/Heljan Garratt) to forthwith join that great plastic tip in the Pacific!!

I am immensely impressed - well done Hornby (obligatory inflammatory remark to generate a reaction  - I have got no connection with them) I only wish I had had the funds at the time to order another(especially given I got it for a tad under £300) but there is too much other good stuff on the market at the moment .... decisions decisions !!

[Legend]

Must be my day for praising manufacturers (- they'd better make the most of it )

May be I am one of the lucky ones but I have a five car IEP and and have been running it on my test loops and it has not derailed once -  it runs immaculately at speeds well in excess of my APT-E. - indeed  it is so fast I have not dared to try it continuously at the max volts (16vDC measured at o/p of my H&M Safety Minor!!) as I foolishly did not put in any super-elevation -  instead I limit it to 12v - at which speed it will still lap my APT-E even on the outside loop, and it is rock steady..... and looks most impressive - I do agree the coach lights are a bit dim, even at 12v - but then it is going round so fast it generates visual discomfort!!.

As a guide I am using ordinary unmodified Peco Code 75 large radius straight and curved points and Exactoscale BH track and the radii on my main loops are a continuous  curve of 4.5ft out to around 6 ft in places (average 5ft approx) and on each circuit it is traversing up to 6 straight/curved large radius facing and trailing crossovers. Its performance at speed is enough for me to consider sending my current bete noire (Hattons/Heljan Garratt) to forthwith join that great plastic tip in the Pacific!!

I am immensely impressed - well done Hornby (obligatory inflammatory remark to generate a reaction  - I have got no connection with them) I only wish I had had the funds at the time to order another(especially given I got it for a tad under £300) but there is too much other good stuff on the market at the moment .... decisions decisions !!

Appears to be the luck of the draw . But buying £395 locos shouldn't be like that

[tarifa]

It looks as though Hornby have managed to produce two five car IEP's that have no problems, mine and lochlongside, well done Hornby.  But it does read as though lochlongside has good track.

[martin_l_jones]

Well, update from Hornby . Mine is on it's way back and will be delivered tomorrow.

 

Presume repaired !

Edited April 4, 2018 by martin_l_jones

[lochlongside]

Appears to be the luck of the draw . But buying £395 locos shouldn't be like that

I agree absolutely - it really does rankle when you get a clunker, and I have had a couple (or more !!), even more so when onliners are extolling the virtues of their own purchases so I do sympathise - but in this case I just wanted to rebalance the discussion and advise that they were not all duff. I would also guess that in this case such a problem is unlikely to have shown up even if purchased locally as many shops have only a yard or two of track set up in a straight line for testing - which is why I mentioned the context within which mine operated (might also help to explain, apart from price, why so many on balance buy on line!).

On a more general note I would also comment that it appears to me that proportionately significantly fewer onliners talk in detail about performance compared with appearance unless possibly it is slow speed running. (e.g. 1361 splashergate vs its performance) It would be nice to hear more contributors talk about roadholding thro curves/points(advise type)/haulage capacity/whether the motor gets hot in constant use/how noisy it is (no point fitting sound if it already imitates a concrete mixer or whines like a Typhoon at take-off) /how many volts to get the thing started/etc

 

Back on subject   I would however be very interested (with photos) in what modifications Hornby make to counter what is obviously a problem to many purchasers even if I do not feel like sending my own back - so if anyone who has had the mods done could post photos it would be much appreciated.

[dibber25]

 

On a more general note I would also comment that it appears to me that proportionately significantly fewer onliners talk in detail about performance compared with appearance unless possibly it is slow speed running. (e.g. 1361 splashergate vs its performance) It would be nice to hear more contributors talk about roadholding thro curves/points(advise type)/haulage capacity/whether the motor gets hot in constant use/how noisy it is (no point fitting sound if it already imitates a concrete mixer or whines like a Typhoon at take-off) /how many volts to get the thing started/etc

 

 

 

You'll find all that info - and more - in a Model Rail review. The Class 800 is in the next issue, published in a little over a week's time. (CJL)