Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[adb968008]

I saw a Royal Scot heading north through Tamworth hauling a complete rake of SR green coaches on one occasion........don't ask me what they were though, we were really interested in the locomotives then.

 

Mike

It wasn’t in any way related to this ?

 

http://www.confessionsofatrainspotter.org.uk/1963bulleidinvasion.htm

[ikks]

It wasn’t in any way related to this ?

 

http://www.confessionsofatrainspotter.org.uk/1963bulleidinvasion.htm

I had always thought it may have been football related, but that was a little late in the day. It would've been 1960/61;

 

Mike

[Grovenor]

The loco is almost certainly in green in the Fiikr photos (early totem). Although the adoption of maroon for LMR Pacifics is often referred to as a 1956 livery change, most Duchesses in fact had it applied in in the latter half of 1958 and not always in LMS style of perimeter lining. At that date, one could still see half of trains in blood & custard but less so in 1959. However, the Duchesses were built to do a particular task of hauling the best trains over the WCML, and these tended to consist of coaches that had received maroon first.

SWs went through a lot of liveries in its short life.

Data from Modellers backtrack Volume 3 No 5. "Definitive Duchesses Part 2" by David Jenkinson.

1 Outshopped as 6256, 12/47 in full LMS 1946 livery, black with maroon edges etc.

1a Insignia changed to 46256, BRITISH RAILWAYS on tender (pictured in 1948)

2 Repainted in BR Experimental black 10/48, LNW style lining.

3 Repainted in BR Standard Blue 5/52

4 Repainted in BR Green, eary emblem 6/54

5 Repainted BR Red (with lining similar to green locos) 5/58

6 Lining changed to LMS style 9/59

6a  cabside diagonal sripe added (pictured 9/64)

Out of service 10/64

[MGR Hooper!]

Thanks to all those who answered my question, most useful! And also the last post regarding liveries it carried.

[bike2steam]

I saw a Royal Scot heading north through Tamworth hauling a complete rake of SR green coaches on one occasion........don't ask me what they were though, we were really interested in the locomotives then.

 

Mike

Up to the early 60's there was an abundance of inter-regional cross country trains, for regular trains there was usually 2 sets of carriages, one set from the region where the train started, and one where it finished, except for the 'Pines Express' where both were supplied by the LMR. So your green set thro' Tamworth could've been for anywhere along the south coast from Margate to Brighton.

[ScRSG]

SWs went through a lot of liveries in its short life.

Data from Modellers backtrack Volume 3 No 5. "Definitive Duchesses Part 2" by David Jenkinson.

1 Outshopped as 6256, 12/47 in full LMS 1946 livery, black with maroon edges etc.

1a Insignia changed to 46256, BRITISH RAILWAYS on tender (pictured in 1948)

2 Repainted in BR Experimental black 10/48, LNW style lining.

3 Repainted in BR Standard Blue 5/52

4 Repainted in BR Green, eary emblem 6/54

5 Repainted BR Red (with lining similar to green locos) 5/58

6 Lining changed to LMS style 9/59

6a  cabside diagonal sripe added (pictured 9/64)

Out of service 10/64

Anyone know of a colour photo of No.5?

[Brocp]

Anyone know of a colour photo of No.5?

BR Maroon, same as the latter style but with BR lining.

[sirwilliamfrs]

Anyone know of a colour photo of No.5?

Page 61 of "Locomotives of the National Collection", Ian Allan, 2008, has an excellent colour photo of 46229 in the BR-style lined maroon. "Looking Back at Stanier Locomotives", Strathwood, 2009 has two photos of 46247 in the same livery.

Edited November 14, 2017 by sirwilliamfrs

[Guest Midland Mole]

I now have Duchess of Atholl sitting in front of me, thanks Rails for VERY quick delivery! Another absolutely stunning loco, well done again Hornby.

Shame I can only view it from one side now due to my clumsiness. The handrail on one side was loose at the smokebox, and I managed to get glue all down the side of it.....and failed to actually repair the problem in the process.

Ohh well, to quote Forrest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does"

 

Alex

[ScRSG]

BR Maroon, same as the latter style but with BR lining.

 

 

Page 61 of "Locomotives of the National Collection", Ian Allan, 2008, has an excellent colour photo of 46229 in the BR-style lined maroon. "Looking Back at Stanier Locomotives", Strathwood, 2009 has two photos of 46247 in the same livery.

Sorry, guys but I was looking for, specifically, a colour photo of 46256 in this livery, as I don't think I have ever seen one of this loco in that variation. The reason for a colour photo is that in this livery a black and white photo does not prove green or red! I have looked at my collection of photos and not one shows this variation on this loco.

[sirwilliamfrs]

BR Maroon, same as the latter style but with BR lining.

Neither "The Stanier Pacifics", RCTS 2017 or "LMS Locomotive Profiles No.11", Wild Swan 2008 list 45256 as ever having carried BR-style lining on the maroon livery. It was repainted into Maroon, lined LMS-style, in May 1958 and remained in this livery until withdrawal.

[ScRSG]

Neither "The Stanier Pacifics", RCTS 2017 or "LMS Locomotive Profiles No.11", Wild Swan 2008 list 45256 as ever having carried BR-style lining on the maroon livery. It was repainted into Maroon, lined LMS-style, in May 1958 and remained in this livery until withdrawal.

That is what I thought, I have never seen evidence of it in BR lining style.

[ScRSG]

See my post No. 4 on this thread for my "City of Liverpool" in this style which was most definitely carried by this loco.

[Steamport Southport]

I can't see Jenkinson getting something like this wrong.

 

He would have had the engine cards and it would have been recent memory when the books were originally written.

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

I found this pic on the net https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiRjtrFgrzXAhWDXhoKHUurBWQQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fgeoffsimages%2F20106257929&psig=AOvVaw0snVvzzOmhqeRtsv-vu6DR&ust=1510678527995918

The first 2 coaches look like maroon Mk1s. I can't tell from the photo whether the loco is red or green but Mark 1s would have been introduced before 46256 was painted red & the WCML would probably have been one of the first lines to receive new coaches.

 

If the date is correct then it will be green.

 

 

Jason

[MikeParkin65]

SWs went through a lot of liveries in its short life.

Data from Modellers backtrack Volume 3 No 5. "Definitive Duchesses Part 2" by David Jenkinson.

1 Outshopped as 6256, 12/47 in full LMS 1946 livery, black with maroon edges etc.

1a Insignia changed to 46256, BRITISH RAILWAYS on tender (pictured in 1948)

2 Repainted in BR Experimental black 10/48, LNW style lining.

3 Repainted in BR Standard Blue 5/52

4 Repainted in BR Green, eary emblem 6/54

5 Repainted BR Red (with lining similar to green locos) 5/58

6 Lining changed to LMS style 9/59

6a  cabside diagonal sripe added (pictured 9/64)

Out of service 10/64

I've just spent a most enjoyable hour flicking through various books on the Duchesses including the various Irwell Press 'Book of the Coronation Pacifics, the excellent Wild Swan LMS Loco Profile No 11 and the he new 'The detailed history of the Stanier Pacifics' from RCTS. Non-show 46256  with livery 5  - and the RCTS states it straight from BR Green to LMS style crimson, never carrying the BR style lining. Not definitive of course but no evidence for this variation on '56 so far.

[sirwilliamfrs]

David Jenkinson wrote a two-part article in "Railway World" April & May 1966 on the liveries of the Coronation Pacifics. The error regarding 46256's livery appears in a table in the article. The true answer would appear to be that mentioned in later publications. In OPC's "Profile of the Duchesses" there is a photo of 46256 in 1958, clearly in LMS lining style maroon. In the photo the loco still has it's electric lighting set, which was removed during September 1959, when the loco was again repainted. Therefore the original maroon livery applied was that which 46256 carried for the rest of it's life.

[Guest Midland Mole]

I am in two minds over getting Bill Stanier re-painted into LMS Lined black. I love that livery, in my mind the best livery the LMS came up with, but at the same time I love the model as it is.....

 

 

.....I just don't know.

 

Alex

[Brocp]

I am in two minds over getting Bill Stanier re-painted into LMS Lined black. I love that livery, in my mind the best livery the LMS came up with, but at the same time I love the model as it is.....

 

 

.....I just don't know.

 

Alex

I'm doing that with mine, i know they'll most likely annouce 6256 in that livery next year but I'm slightly impatient so Bill will be in as built livery.

 

Also i agree, the 1946 lined black is a cracking livery.... when clean.

[Pete the Elaner]

There are not many variations they can make with that particular tooling so I am sure 6256 in 1946 black will be available before too long.

I want one like this & I am prepared to wait for it.

[Guest Midland Mole]

I'm doing that with mine, i know they'll most likely annouce 6256 in that livery next year but I'm slightly impatient so Bill will be in as built livery.

 

Also i agree, the 1946 lined black is a cracking livery.... when clean.

 

I thought about that, but I'm not sure it will come so quickly. I'm certain Hornby will do it in lined LMS black, but I think they are more likely to use the tooling for City of Salford first rather than repeat the name. But we will see.

Alex

Edited November 14, 2017 by Midland Mole

[vitalspark]

See post #1042.  

 

Superb!

[Buhar]

Any views on which brand of LMS transfers would be the best match to alter the last digit on Atholl?

[Chamby]

If you want a perfect match, you will be better gently removing the full five digit number and re-applying the whole number afresh using the new transfers. Just replacing the one digit is likely to give you a slight mis-match in tone with the originals. I have learned this the hard way with other loco’s, with both Fox and HMRS transfers. You probably won’t notice any difference compared to the tender lettering, it’s the numbers right next to each other that show it up.

 

Phil

[vitalspark]

Having got my hands on one of these babies I can see what all the fuss is about; there truly is nothing like a big LMS pacific and to my admittedly amateur eyes, they really have captured the nuances that give a Duchess that special presence.  I also have to agree with Larry that they've got the lake absolutely bob-on. I'm more excited about this model than I thought I'd be and I'm genuinely thrilled to have it in my possession. I really must get down the club and give 46256 a good workout. Meantime, it's enough just to stare at it!

 

D.

 

Stop staring Dave 4 and bring it down.

 

Trust it will have been treated to the superb MMC weathering and if you are very lucky that nice mr Franks might have a spare couple of loco lamps!

 

 

I have one just like it weathered and coaled with my very last piece of Kingmoor black..so if you have a spare lump I would be very grateful!

 

 

Dave