Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Arthur

 

I happen to think that good pictures as I used on my Blog are probably better than videos at highlighting 'issues'.

Well Gents, we await your video reviews to show us how it should be done. They will be flawless we know..

I also have plenty of videos (there's one here) - some of which I happen to think are nearly very good.  I try and limit the length as I am of the opinion that viewers soon get bored.

 

Regards  Ray

[Arthur]

 

Good for you, pleased that you think they are ‘nearly very good’.

 

Let’s hope nobody starts to rip your efforts to bits.

 

Perhaps rather than a high handed ‘I take exception...’ a more considerate ‘I find it useful to...’ would have been less abrasive.

 

.

[MikeParkin65]

I find both Andy’s and SilverSidelines photos and videos helpful. And Silverline has done some very good comparison photos of ‘old’ version 46243 and new 46256.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same problems as Andy in getting the tender body off? Any better tips than levering it off with a screwdriver? - no disrespect intended Andy - just asking for alternatives!

[Ian Hargrave]

I found Andy's video illuminating and revealing. Likewise,Ray (Silver S) is incredibly genererous and helpful with his practical advice,well supported with his own videos and images. As always,thanks to both gents.

[JSpencer]

I have not added sound to my Ivatt Stanier yet but if the tender top is to the same design as the Castle class Hawksworth (which it seems to be) which is also hard to get off then my advice is:

 

You need to push it towards the rear buffer beam, yeah, I know the vac pipe blocks this a lot, so you then waggle/twist side to side pulling on it at the same time. A fair amount of force is needed but not as much so as to break it.

Edited December 7, 2017 by JSpencer

[Chamby]

I have not added sound to my Ivatt Stanier yet but if the tender top is to the same design as the Castle class Hawksworth (which it seems to be) which is also hard to get off then my advice is:

 

You need to push it towards the rear buffer beam, yeah, I know the vac pipe blocks this a lot, so you then waggle/twist side to side pulling on it at the same time. A fair amount of force is needed but not as much so as to break it.

 

#907 of this thread if you're interested in a pic of one example of a simple sound install.

 

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

Not having purchased one of the New Hornby "Semis", I've just watched Andy's video, which seemed to me very informative. Like Ray I tend to be ultra careful in handling any model, and would be especially so with one at this price!

 

I could sense the frustration in the review, that inadequate failed front end hold could easily lead to major damage, the battle with the tender body is one slip of the screwdriver away from a big scratch on the side. The running quality is indifferent at best and would probably trigger a new wheelset purchase if it were mine. Looking back at this thread there's been mangled valve gear on the first curve, and blobs of glue on the body. The bogie wheels and drivers seem to be out of alignment, leading to traction problems, and this appears also in the Duchess of Hamilton thread.

 

Sorry, this is a really unhappy saga for a premium priced product, however attentive to cosmetic detail the manufacturer has been. I'll be sticking to my souped up older locos, unless subsequent batches show marked improvement.

 

John.

[Ian Hargrave]

I respect what is posted above but to add a modicum of balance to the criticism that is correctly levelled at what is or should be a premium product,apart from two distinct problems which were easily solved,my four ...yes I fess up to buying four of them.....run well and haul a prototypical load with ease.

 

Common to all four is the feeble and wayward front bogie assembly.This was cured on all four by a slight downward tweak on the support arm.They all now take pointwork and "jumps" in baseboard joins with ease.

One refused to move on delivery due to the steam sanders fouling both drivers and trackwork.This was also easily cured. There is no visible sign of distortion or out of kilter propulsion on any of the drivers. One...6231...is a little noisy after some sustained running but this has not in any way affected its performance.That remains to date unaffected.

 

It has been posted that Hornby's earlier versions are good..so why then change and risk disappointment ? Yes,the earlier ones are fine but the performance and visual appeal of the new breed take them into another league altogether.That does not excuse poor quality manufacturing and consequent  lapses in quality control.The punters are shelling out a load of Wonga on these as never before.But neither Wonga nor patience are inexhaustible

[coachmann]

Mine runs well on DC although it has not been run through pointwork, so it was hardly a thorough test. Anyway, this morning I did the paper test. The LH leading driver is high, in fact it is visible when holding a steel rule across the three drivers.  It has been a long-held tradition in railway modelling that the centre drivers be either slightly higher than the outer drivers or slightly smaller in diameter, but those on the new Duchesses arent even in line. Okay, it is a toy, but surely we can expect better engineering than this. The problem for Hornby is this should not happen. Someone is not doing vital checks at the early stages of development. (Some of the recent GWR 14XX 0-4-2T's also have out-of-line driving axle problems). 

 

Add to this the Loco-to-Tender coupling bar debacle and the very poor accessibility of the Tender to fit a decoder (to a loco labelled DCC Ready), and there are clearly some very important design issues that the manufacturer needs to be alerted to. Having said that, it shouldn't be necessary! This thread started off with glowing praise, which must have come as a joy to the manufacturers. But I wonder how they are feeling now that slipshod design work has been highlighted by its customers?

 

Just to add a slight warning at this point. With 00 gauge loco prices rising to close on £200.00 and 0 gauge RTR locos coming down towards £200.00,  4mm/00 is likely to loose some of its core buyers. Making 00 gauge loco unattractive for whatever reasons can only help the flow to the larger scale.

Edited December 9, 2017 by coachmann

[Andy Y]

Add to this the Loco-to-Tender coupling bar debacle

I had a very useful email from a knowledgeable person overnight which gave a tip so retrospectively blindingly obvious I have kicked myself - turn the coupling bar through 180 degrees so it's adjustable on the loco rather than the tender. Yet to try it to see if it creates another problem.

[coachmann]

I had a very useful email from a knowledgeable person overnight which gave a tip so retrospectively blindingly obvious I have kicked myself - turn the coupling bar through 180 degrees so it's adjustable on the loco rather than the tender. Yet to try it to see if it creates another problem.

It was so blindingly obvious Andy that I did look at that when my loco arrived.  It wouldn't work becasue the other end is in a captive casting. So I nipped the end off with Xuron track cutters. Job done.

[JSpencer]

My Sir William Stanier had a small issue of the front bogie lifting off over my roller coaster layout on one board (getting old, the layout has peaks and dips) but Andy Y,s advice to tweak the bogie by pulling it down a bit worked a treat. Since then it does not derail, a very powerful performer capable of all point work and track work my layout throws at it.

 

After seeing the paper test here, I was curious to see if mine too had one wheel higher than the others, and yes indeed it does. But this has no effect on its running. Should they manufacture this part to tighter tolerances? Probably, but that will probably increase cost.

 

I have 2 H class. The weight sits slightly to the rear, so on glass, the paper will pass under both front drivers with ease. However one runs perfectly, the other kept stalling suddenly. I found many of the contacts are not always in contact as they should be. These were adjusted only yesterday, so far testing no longer shows the stalling. But still early days yet.

The model has that burned electrical smell , which I have not traced yet and the full stripe down showed no tight spots.

 

Some of these are manufacturing faults due to poor tolerances. However the lack of sprung axles (or rather ever increasing rigid chassis) these days, poor weight concentration and poor fixing of body to chassis are design issues.

Edited December 9, 2017 by JSpencer

[darren01]

Should they manufacture this part to tighter tolerances? Probably, but that will probably increase cost.

I don't see why it would cost more, in the past it been done right, so i don't see why its not now right?.

[MikeParkin65]

I have not added sound to my Ivatt Stanier yet but if the tender top is to the same design as the Castle class Hawksworth (which it seems to be) which is also hard to get off then my advice is:

 

You need to push it towards the rear buffer beam, yeah, I know the vac pipe blocks this a lot, so you then waggle/twist side to side pulling on it at the same time. A fair amount of force is needed but not as much so as to break it.

Thanks for this. I plucked up the courage to fit DCC sound to mine today. The key does seem to be to remove the vacuum pipe first. The pipe came off ok though I did lose its locating pin (glued in the hole I suspect). I may not refit it in any case - it never looks right having the pipe neatly locked up when coupled to a train when in reality it would be connected to the first vehicle anyway.

 

Once the pipe is out of the way with the two screws at front removed the body comes off as described in the instructions, certainly no need to lever it off with a screwdriver though it did take firmer pressure than is ideal. I didn't want to destroy the coal pusher so I  drilled 2 small holes at the bottom of the coal space to pass the speaker wires from the Zimo MX645 into the coal space where I have connected them with a 2 pin connector to a speaker stuck with a double sided pad to the underside of the plastic coal load. Of the speakers I had to hand it was actually an iphone6 speaker that sounded best (apart from an Earth Mover 2 but that would have meant gutting the tender!). I was going to fit a second speaker in the loco but that plastic lug has put me off removing the body where I don't need to. Shame as there appears to be a decent amount of useable space in the front of the boiler.

 

Trial running has commenced and it has coped fine with my less than perfect track. I did the 'piece of glass test and all 6 drivers sit square with no gap you could get even a Rizla through. One unexplained front bogie derailment so i will keep an eye on that. A very smooth and quiet runner and really looks the part. Over Christmas I'll fit the detail parts, real coal and a crew. Clearly there have been problems with QA with this model  - not least my first example and Andy's review sample but I am pleased to say that there are good ones to be had.

[robmcg]

Parcel from Locomotion, oh joy! Very well packed, but zero email communication.

 

 

 

 

In the words of Arthur Daley,

 

What can possibly go wrong?

Edited December 11, 2017 by robmcg

[toboldlygo]

Parcel from Locomotion, oh joy! Very well packed, but zero email communication.

 

Img_1539a_r1200.jpg

 

Img_1541a_r1200.jpg

 

 

In the words of Arthur Daley,

 

What can possibly go wrong?

The MiM, have been intercepting your emails - so quite possibly everything can and will go wrong

[robmcg]

When have I ever let you down?

 

 

 

A very nice model straight out of the box....  smooth, no apparent issues at all.

 

Thankyou Hornby.

 

Edit; replaced one pic as centre driver was not on track (it still ran ok)  neither pic edited except for cropping and background slight cleanup, and a little colour balance a la Picasa..

Edited December 11, 2017 by robmcg

[ScRSG]

Just been looking at the ridiculous prices people are asking on ebay for SWS! C'mon, Hornby, do another release of this loco to stop this ludicrous situation - your tooling costs have already been spent so now saturate the market!

[Ian Hargrave]

Just been looking at the ridiculous prices people are asking on ebay for SWS! C'mon, Hornby, do another release of this loco to stop this ludicrous situation - your tooling costs have already been spent so now saturate the market!

 

Just a passing phase.If we ignore it perhaps it will go away and the carpetbaggers with it.Another release of 46256 is unlikely but there is of course 46257 to consider.This is a logical progression. I sincerely hope the punters are not tempted to buy at those silly prices but as is said...a fool and his money are soon parted. Meanwhile one is tempted to envisage wardrobes full of SWS waiting in vain to find a loving owner on ebay.

 

Staniers or krugerrands...faites vos jeux.

[farren]

Why saturate the market. If someone is willing to pay over the odds that's not Hornby's problem . Better leave them wanting more. Then when a re-run is done in the future it's more likely to sell. Otherwise some may sit on shop shelfs end up going cheap probably to a person already with one. With ideas of renumbering. And lowering future sails

[ScRSG]

Why saturate the market. If someone is willing to pay over the odds that's not Hornby's problem . Better leave them wanting more. Then when a re-run is done in the future it's more likely to sell. Otherwise some may sit on shop shelfs end up going cheap probably to a person already with one. With ideas of renumbering. And lowering future sails

But it ain't Hornby who are making the money, and I, for one, would much rather see the profit going to them and the retailers than the ebay profiteers. A strong Hornby suits us all!

[daltonparva]

But it ain't Hornby who are making the money, and I, for one, would much rather see the profit going to them and the retailers then the ebay profiteers. A strong Hornby suits us all!

Hornby have made their money, they've sold all they made. The retailers have made their money, they've all sold out. A handful of end consumers have also made a profit selling theirs on. What's the problem? Is there a law that a customer must always make a loss when they dispose of their items?

[Clearwater]

An alternative analysis, is that Hornby underpriced the model and hence it sold out quickly. Arguably they could have charged say £25 more RRP and made more money. No doubt there would have been howls of outrage if the original price had been at or near the £200 mark.

 

David

[cctransuk]

But it ain't Hornby who are making the money, and I, for one, would much rather see the profit going to them and the retailers than the ebay profiteers. A strong Hornby suits us all!

 

It's called capitalism !

 

Under it, it is perfectly acceptable practice to buy something at one price when it's relatively easily available, and then sell it at a profit when it becomes scarce.

 

The consumer of model railways has a choice nowadays :-

 

1] pre-order, and gamble that the model will be a good 'un; or

 

2] wait until the model comes out and decide whether to buy - but gamble that they won't all sell out before release.

 

Similarly, the on-line reseller gambles that the model will be a good 'un, and that the cautious types, described in 2] above, will be desperate to get one and will pay over the odds.

 

All of life is a gamble - we pays our money and we makes our choices; model railways included.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited December 13, 2017 by cctransuk

[MikeParkin65]

An alternative analysis, is that Hornby underpriced the model and hence it sold out quickly. Arguably they could have charged say £25 more RRP and made more money. No doubt there would have been howls of outrage if the original price had been at or near the £200 mark.

 

David

Hornby made a shrewd move tooling up 46256/7 at the same time as producing a new chassis for the Princess Coronation. I disagree that they have underpriced it though as it was already premium priced at RRP. 6232 is still readily available and if 46256 had been priced north of £200 there is no guarantee it would have sold as well as it has. The last thing Hornby want is  glut of models stuck on the shelves and having to discount them sooner or later. The obvious next move is 46256 or 7 in a different livery and another BR Maroon edition of another non Ivatt Duchess. And sort that plastic body lug out with something more substantial.