Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[paul 27]

Back to the subject of  City of Birmingham,  any one had any issues with this batch.

[apollanaut]

Yes, just before I had to leave to return to Auckland, my new City of Birmingham model suddenly started tripping the short circuit cutout on my ESU controller. I tried to find out what the problem was, but ran out of time. Frustrating, but didn’t seem to be anything major (no burning smell from a fried decoder!)

[Francis deWeck]

Yes, just before I had to leave to return to Auckland, my new City of Birmingham model suddenly started tripping the short circuit cutout on my ESU controller. I tried to find out what the problem was, but ran out of time. Frustrating, but didn’t seem to be anything major (no burning smell from a fried decoder!)

That's interesting, my Hornby tender locos seemed to object to passing through points on my dcc layout (NCE, but that's irrelevant). The layout comprised of a couple of power districts controlled by PSXs, but was laid out in a lateral (concentric, if you will) configuration. I gave this some thought and reworked the config to a vertical setup, with one half plus the accessory bus allocated to a DB5 booster. EB1s and Rampmeters complete the DCC picture for both halves of the layout. Problem seems to have gone away.

[adb968008]

Back to the subject of City of Birmingham, any one had any issues with this batch.

Spent much of my spare time today with a 47xx, but did give my new Duchess a run today, seems a bit sprightly from the get go, maybe a bit of running in, but otherwise seems just as good as the others. If I get chance tomorrow I might do a line up of Duchesses :-)

It does tend to hang out there with the back end on tighter corners (i’m still “trainsetty” when it comes to track) but it doesn’t affect performance.

Edited April 5, 2018 by adb968008

[robmcg]

That's interesting, my Hornby tender locos seemed to object to passing through points on my dcc layout (NCE, but that's irrelevant). The layout comprised of a couple of power districts controlled by PSXs, but was laid out in a lateral (concentric, if you will) configuration. I gave this some thought and reworked the config to a vertical setup, with one half plus the accessory bus allocated to a DB5 booster. EB1s and Rampmeters complete the DCC picture for both halves of the layout. Problem seems to have gone away.

 

I have absolutely no idea what this all means.  PSX ? accessory bus?  DB% booster?  Rampmeters?  

 

and problem 'seems to have gone away'?

 

No wonder people avoid DCC

[Pete the Elaner]

I have absolutely no idea what this all means.  PSX ? accessory bus?  DB% booster?  Rampmeters?  

 

and problem 'seems to have gone away'?

 

No wonder people avoid DCC

I think most of them are specific part numbers. SB5 is an NCE power booster, which does a similar job to a power amplifier.

DCC is like many things: you can start simply but as the layout grows, so does the system.

[Tarnish1]

All double Dutch to me! So much has changed since I restarted this hobby after a gap of 50 years!!!

[No Decorum]

That’s the joy of the hobby. Things can still be worked in a way that someone who has been away for fifty years can understand. Digital is wonderful but not compulsory.

[MikeParkin65]

Spent much of my spare time today with a 47xx, but did give my new Duchess a run today, seems a bit sprightly from the get go, maybe a bit of running in, but otherwise seems just as good as the others. If I get chance tomorrow I might do a line up of Duchesses :-)

It does tend to hang out there with the back end on tighter corners (i’m still “trainsetty” when it comes to track) but it doesn’t affect performance.

As others have said the new Duches isn’t as smooth as the older version. Fitted with a Zimo the performance is much better than on analog though - nearly on a par.

 

I am experimenting with shorter draw bars and have got down to 17mm between holes and still able to negotiate 36 inch curves. Apart from reducing the loco to tender gap by a scale 1foot this also limits the cab swing as it just touches the tender on the curve. It’s a cheap and easy upgrade - I am using black plastic soup top lids for materials and a Rolson belt hole punch for the holes

[robmcg]

Some pictures of 46235 just arrived, runs well on short test track, and amazingly has correct valve-gear offset on the middle driving wheel on both sides!

 

 

 

 

Close examination reveals some small assembly errors, the fall plate fell off while removing engine from box, but it runs well on DC with slight hesitation on starting (with a DCC chip?) then very smooth.  

[adb968008]

I’ve done the line up everyone hopes one day to see for real..

 

 

And with a nod to the 1968 end of steam thread for a bit of inspiration with these two pictures...

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008

[Pete the Elaner]

I’ve done the line up everyone hopes one day to see for real..

 

4F72F693-1B97-4E35-8442-B4EF4B9A920E.jpeg4D9E91AE-C762-4686-93E7-6054ED6243DA.jpeg266C8563-7BBE-4261-AB18-E9528856F6A6.jpeg

 

And with a nod to the 1968 end of steam thread for a bit of inspiration with these two pictures...

 

38BD6E85-BB9A-4B6F-BFEE-613516BE8DEB.jpegD2BD8881-DE3A-46C2-8A16-903EBD696C74.jpeg

Why would I want to see 6233 in green? I have seen it for real in green & I don't think the livery suited it at all.

It would have to be Crimson Lake or 1946 black.

46229 in red I can understand, although I do sort of like it with the gold stripes.

6235 is more interesting. As only 1 of 2 ex-streamliners to carry wartime black ... either that or 1946 black would be something.

 

& all of the class had gone before 1968 because electrification had banned them from too many of the routes they were built for.

[adb968008]

You have to look close to see the subtle differences in tooling between these two..

Note the rivet detail around the frames of the pony wheel.

Around the footplate area.

The driving wheel flange is deeper in the new Duchess than the old, which whilst authentic may affect curves.

Roof detail, note cladding line and whistle.

 

Quite definitely they can co-exist together, the old Duchess wasn’t bad at all.

 

On to the TTS bit, normally I ditch the chip on ebay as soon as a release like this comes along as I only do DC. However when testing it, I actually thought this is pretty good.

What I did next was to dig up an old YouTube video of 46233 on the S&C and do a side by side comparison..

The result was a very close match, judge for yourself...

The video starts with both sounds, I then turn off one, then the other, and I think you’d agree the sound on this is pretty close to reality, which, for me, has been why I’ve ignored DCC so far and stuck with D.C.. steam doesn’t sound right...however here I think it’s good.

 

I may hang onto this chip for the future in case something changes in my mind with regards DCC.

If you want to try this yourself, the recording of 46233 is here..

 

Here’s a run through of sounds on TTS, for those of DCC interest (for now i’m Sticking to DC but this chip i’ll Keep).

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008

[Pete the Elaner]

Looks like coasting works better than it did with the earlier Loksound fitted Duchesses. That was my only gripe with that although being a proper Loksound, it can be reblown.

Is there any way of adjusting the beats to make them in sync with the wheels?

[adb968008]

Looks like coasting works better than it did with the earlier Loksound fitted Duchesses. That was my only gripe with that although being a proper Loksound, it can be reblown.

Is there any way of adjusting the beats to make them in sync with the wheels?

Above my pay grade that.

 

Most DCC sound stuff I’ve acquired has been for the loco only.

My DCC knowledge is limited to testing a chip/setting the CV for D.C. operation with sound, or changing the chip number, (with exception of 3, now 4 locos) before disposing of the chip !

Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008

[sandwich station]

It seems to have a 2 cylinder beat, not a 4?

[adb968008]

all of the class had gone before 1968 because electrification had banned them from too many of the routes they were built for.

I was referring to the picture in this 1968 thread..

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129814-50-years-since-the-end-of-br-steam/?p=3039860

I drew inspiration for the smokebox and Cab side shots from that picture.

 

As for livery, each to their own.. that’s why model railways caters for everyone.

Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008

[Paul_sterling]

You have to look close to see the subtle differences in tooling between these two..5D319EA5-0688-41CD-88E5-7F795AD31370.jpeg

Note the rivet detail around the frames of the pony wheel.

D49B5F99-9D84-483B-93B0-8CBEFA0DC626.jpeg

Around the footplate area.

94F10D96-E959-49C1-8AD6-C51BCE02CFBC.jpeg

The driving wheel flange is deeper in the new Duchess than the old, which whilst authentic may affect curves.

2AD02736-25A9-4884-B19D-A09D6DAC5F8E.jpeg

Roof detail, note cladding line and whistle.

 

Quite definitely they can co-exist together, the old Duchess wasn’t bad at all.

 

On to the TTS bit, normally I ditch the chip on ebay as soon as a release like this comes along as I only do DC. However when testing it, I actually thought this is pretty good.

What I did next was to dig up an old YouTube video of 46233 on the S&C and do a side by side comparison..

The result was a very close match, judge for yourself...

The video starts with both sounds, I then turn off one, then the other, and I think you’d agree the sound on this is pretty close to reality, which, for me, has been why I’ve ignored DCC so far and stuck with D.C.. steam doesn’t sound right...however here I think it’s good.

 

I may hang onto this chip for the future in case something changes in my mind with regards DCC.

If you want to try this yourself, the recording of 46233 is here..

 

Here’s a run through of sounds on TTS, for those of DCC interest (for now i’m Sticking to DC but this chip i’ll Keep).

 

 

Can I ask, what make is the rolling road you've used there? 

 

Thanks, Paul. 

[adb968008]

Can I ask, what make is the rolling road you've used there?

 

Thanks, Paul.

 

For DC I have a Gaugemaster LT, which has an inbuilt ammeter, it comes with a pack of DCC concepts rollers, I have a separate voltmeter I use occasionally.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/NEW-Multi-Scale-Locomotive-Tester-from-Gaugemaster

 

For DCC testing, I just put the DCC concepts rollers onto an ordinary piece of Peco track, and it takes power from it. (That’s in the video above).

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-tag/6-rollers/

 

 

The DCC system I have (admittedly overkill for testing) is a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance controller and handheld unit. I figured buy once i’m Done..some day I may go DCC.

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCC02&style=&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+DCC02

 

Finally I have Lok Sound ESU test rig (not featured above) which I can mount several types of chip and have it sequence a static motor and speaker unit on that rig to test. This is a must for any DCC person I feel, I use it predominantly as locos I’ve bought off ebay etc have had chips fitted, which I stripped out and passed on whilst my collection is D.C. only.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester/

 

I last week acquired a Piko Measuring Wagon (a dynamometer car of sorts ) which is Wi-fi enabled and had digital readouts that gives real time speed, gradient, slope, curve and track voltage measurements (see 47xx thread). I’ll be do a write up on this new really exciting piece of kit next weekend.

 

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/piko-55050--expert--track-measurement-wagon-50633-p.asp

 

I might not have a picturesque layout but I love my gadgets and the testing side of the hobby...indeed my sprawling collection of track runs to a timetable, with loco roster and servicing schedules !

 

 

FYI the subject itself City of Birmingham was from Derails, £176 puts them at quite a bargain price, compared to Rails / Hattons.

Edited April 7, 2018 by adb968008

[Paul_sterling]

For DC I have a Gaugemaster LT, which has an inbuilt ammeter, it comes with a pack of DCC concepts rollers, I have a separate voltmeter I use occasionally.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/NEW-Multi-Scale-Locomotive-Tester-from-Gaugemaster

 

For DCC testing, I just put the DCC concepts rollers onto an ordinary piece of Peco track, and it takes power from it. (That’s in the video above).

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product-tag/6-rollers/

 

 

The DCC system I have (admittedly overkill for testing) is a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance controller and handheld unit. I figured buy once i’m Done..some day I may go DCC.

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCC02&style=&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+DCC02

 

Finally I have Lok Sound ESU test rig (not featured above) which I can mount several types of chip and have it sequence a static motor and speaker unit on that rig to test. This is a must for any DCC person I feel, I use it predominantly as locos I’ve bought off ebay etc have had chips fitted, which I stripped out and passed on whilst my collection is D.C. only.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/decoder-tester/

 

I last week acquired a Piko Measuring Wagon (a dynamometer car of sorts ) which is Wi-fi enabled and had digital readouts that gives real time speed, gradient, slope, curve and track voltage measurements (see 47xx thread). I’ll be do a write up on this new really exciting piece of kit next weekend.

 

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/piko-55050--expert--track-measurement-wagon-50633-p.asp

 

I might not have a picturesque layout but I love my gadgets and the testing side of the hobby...indeed my sprawling collection of track runs to a timetable, with loco roster and servicing schedules !

Thank you

 

for my part its having something in place torun in locomotives whilst the layout is still under rebuild/construction.

 

cheers.Paul.

[adb968008]

Thank you

 

for my part its having something in place torun in locomotives whilst the layout is still under rebuild/construction.

 

cheers.Paul.

I’ve started 3 layouts in my life...

1st at home as a kid with my dad.. it grew so large that my sister had to get married and move out so I could assume her room and leave mine for the trains.. much to my mums displeasure, dad was ok with it ;-). It lasted 39 years, until last October when I had the sad task of taking it down. I learnt as much working on that as I did all my years of education I think.

 

The 2nd was an exhibition layout that lasted just 1 exhibition, it was 18ft long but as it was homeless and I moved to the US ended up dismantled, a co-hort who built it with me is well known in this parish. All that remains is a shelter, a goods shed and a signal cabin plus some painted platform lamps that never got installed, lots of time/effort was lost on that exercise.

 

My current is a sprawl of 4 separate 10-12m circles, on 3 levels with 1 “8” shape and more than 70+ “sidings” pretending to be stations...if I did scenic i’d Not have anything, so with family and job I play trains, when (if) I retire someday decades from now then maybe i’ll Consolidate and make a scenic layout... I just took the opportunity to build something whilst I had the time and space to get something done.. otherwise i’d too just be surrounded by boxes and no track... which was basically how I was for a few decades after leaving home.

 

My new 46235 joins 46229, 46256 and 6231, but from older times I have a Wrenn 46235 and more recent Hornby 6229, 6230, 46233, 46241, 46245 and 46236.. so some thinning out may happen soon there !

Edited April 8, 2018 by adb968008

[robmcg]

A couple more pics of 46235, in case we haven't seen enough yet.

 

 

 

it is rather hard to achieve a colour balance indoors with artificial lighting, to the naked eye it is rather better and deeper.

Edited April 9, 2018 by robmcg

[vitalspark]

It seems to have a 2 cylinder beat, not a 4?

 

Unless its Lord Nelson a 2 cylinder has the same beat as a 4 cylinder.

 

Dave.

[rembrow]

Just posting a note of caution regarding handling of the City of Birmingham loco part of the model. I received mine a couple of days ago and when removing from the packaging I noticed that the loco chassis at the front end, was free from the body. Examination showed that this was the same problem reported with the Sir William Stanier version, in that the body has an extended piece of moulding at the front end, between the frames, that is designed to hold the chassis at the front end, by slotting the chassis front over this moulding. Unfortunately the moulding is thin and is slightly lower than the part of the frame that it is part of, and therefore the joint between this lug and the frame is very thin and is likely to break, as in my case. I have resolved this by making a longer piece out of 40thou plasticard, to the same overall width, that I have secured by mek pak between the frames, with part extending to form the previous lug, but now much more robust. The photo shows it in place, it is completely hidden between the frames and just needs painting. I will carry out this alteration to my Sir William, as I'm sure that lug could break in lifting the loco at some time. 

[MikeParkin65]

Just posting a note of caution regarding handling of the City of Birmingham loco part of the model. I received mine a couple of days ago and when removing from the packaging I noticed that the loco chassis at the front end, was free from the body. Examination showed that this was the same problem reported with the Sir William Stanier version, in that the body has an extended piece of moulding at the front end, between the frames, that is designed to hold the chassis at the front end, by slotting the chassis front over this moulding. Unfortunately the moulding is thin and is slightly lower than the part of the frame that it is part of, and therefore the joint between this lug and the frame is very thin and is likely to break, as in my case. I have resolved this by making a longer piece out of 40thou plasticard, to the same overall width, that I have secured by mek pak between the frames, with part extending to form the previous lug, but now much more robust. The photo shows it in place, it is completely hidden between the frames and just needs painting. I will carry out this alteration to my Sir William, as I'm sure that lug could break in lifting the loco at some time. 

Nice neat repair. I currently have the body off my 46256 to fit the detail parts. Having previously been the owner of a model with a broken lug (returned to the dealer for refund) one thing i did notice with my current loco is that the fixing screw under the cab is only finger tight. I wonder if over zealous tightening of this screw at the factory is causing these breaks in the front lug? Whatever, it is a poor piece of design imho , the weaker and softer material being asked to support most of the weight of the chassis