Nant Y Mynydd

[Respite]

I haven't seen pit props loaded cross wise in a 16 ton mineral wagon before, they have always been fore and aft, thanks for posting the close up.

The big Barclay is at Merthyr Vale Colliery, Aberfan it had seen about six months use at Mardy Colliery in the mid 60s. Note the spilt sand on the running board, all ready to blow over the slide bars and crosshead.

[Fat Controller]

That's a nice shot of the pit-prop load at Torpantau; presumably heading south after being load somewhere around Brecon or beyond. I've never seen them loaded like that before,  either.

[The Johnster]

Greetings from a fellow South Wales modeller; Cwmdimbath is a valleys blt on a very small bit of bedroom real estate depicting the 'Bridgend' valleys in the 50s and inspired by Abergwynfi.  Here, and very unprototypically, the colliery is assumed to be between the terminus and the junction and not modelled due to lack of space, even for an exchange siding.  South Wales blts that actually came to a buffer stop end and didn't continue up into the wilder part of the valley's head to a pit are not common, and Rule 1 is invoked.  I will be working to the principle that the exchange siding is trailing in the uphill direction, and the loaded trains have to come up here to run around.

 

I am not really qualified to make much comment about the pre-nationalisation era, and you do not say what period you are modelling, but have a fairly clear recollection of things from about 1958 or so, and by that time I would say that all mineral wagons working in the South Wales area were fitted with end doors, and of course by then the wooden RCH 7-plankers were rapidly giving way to BR standard steel bodied 16t minerals.  I stand to be corrected by those with more erudition in this field, but as a generalisation your coal wagons, wooden or steel, should have end doors whether they are loaded for the ports or not.

 

Pit props were sent out to the collieries in 5-plank opens, and the way they were stacked ensured maximum use of the available space; the mineral at Torpantau is an exception.  The depot at Marshfield was still in operation in the 70s and was, I believe, finally closed after a spectacular fire which heat buckled the adjacent SWML.  Internal user wagons at the collieries by my time seemed to be mostly RCH with 3-link couplings as opposed to the instanters more or less universal on the main lines, and spoked wheels; as has been mentioned they were in a black livery with a white (sometimes red) diagonal Saltaire cross on the sides, and often kept in good condition.

 

Chapels are a subject all of their own and the various Bethesdas, Carmels, Zions, Calfarias and so on were a major part of valleys life until about the mid 60s, along with the stereotypical choirs and amateur 6 part harmonies often in Welsh despite the monoglot English speaking congregations (not everywhere; Senghenydd and Pontrhydyfen, for example, were noted for being Welsh speaking communities and there were a percentage of Welsh speakers wherever you went).  'Church' and 'Chapel' represented a fundamental social divide between pit owner and miner, middle or working class, and indeed during earlier times the Chapels had been powerful arbiters of socialist political activity to rival the unions.  They were also the driving force behind the area's various 'revivals' and temperance movement, ministers passionately thundering hellfire and damnation to anyone who stepped out of line, as well as running the only education system available to working class children for many years; the valleys' high rates of literacy and literate activity were the result.  They were all varieties of non-conformist divisions, though Calvinist and Lutheran were rare, and often plowed their own little dogmatic furrows to the dismay of head office within those divisions.  Non-conformism generally encouraged a sort of bottom up approach where the congregation ran the chapel, appointed the minister, and did everything by committee; you can see the parallel with unions!  In earlier days chapels were Welsh speaking while churches were not. 'Church' meant the Anglican 'Church in Wales', and a more structured and authoritarian regime.  Don't leave the catholics out; South Wales had a massive population of ethnically Irish origin who had come over in the famine, and very few people here do not have some Irish dna.  Most villages would have a number of chapels, one 'church', and a catholic church as well.

 

My mother was a valleys girl from Wattstown in the Rhondda Fach, and brought up 'chapel', and was hit with a bit of a culture shock when she met my very middle class Cardiff father who was a committed chapel goer and non-comformist.

 

There is a difference between a workman's train for miners and a paddy train.  A paddy train is to be understood as a very rough and ready means of transport within NCB internal systems; the one at Blaenserchan, which I rode on several times, consisted of unfitted vans with bench seats and the doors removed on one side propelled up the very steep bank by the loco so as to have a proper brake at the bottom end of the train.  Like the internal user wagons, they were in a gloss black livery.  A workmans is to all intents and purposes a normal class B passenger train, vacuum braked and requiring absolute block regulations and facing point locks; the only difference so far as working methods were concerned was the booking arrangements.  The Glyncorrwg-North Rhondda train was famous for being consecutively the haunt of the last GWR 4 wheelers in service and then the last GWR clerestories; it too was propelled up the valley by sectional appendix instruction.  Workmen's trains for miners usually used older stock and some had upholstery removed, as the NCB took some time to install the pithead baths that Nye Bevan had promised and coal mining is a dirty profession.  There would be compartments set aside as 'clean' for managerial and clerical staff.

 

There were other workman's services as well, such as the Abergwynfi-Tremains trains for the ROF workers, and these used stock that would be used in normal passenger service later in the day.

 

Hoping you find some of this general background stuff useful!

Edited January 11, 2017 by The Johnster

[Norton961]

Interesting that the photo of the pit props I posted did not conform to the standard way of doing it, but the railways had a habit of not always doing things by the book.i spend half of my modelling time looking at photos showing me things being done not in the "standard" way.

David

[The Johnster]

Interesting that the photo of the pit props I posted did not conform to the standard way of doing it, but the railways had a habit of not always doing things by the book.i spend half of my modelling time looking at photos showing me things being done not in the "standard" way.

David

 

Quite, but there they are nonetheless, crossways in a mineral wagon!  Heading southwards up the 5 Mile Bank, so probably not originating from the big depots at Marshfield or Wern Tarw, which may go some way to explaining the anomaly.

Edited January 12, 2017 by The Johnster

[Fat Controller]

Quite, but there they are nonetheless, crossways in a mineral wagon!  Heading southwards up the 5 Mile Bank, so probably not originating from the big depots at Marshfield or Wern Tarw, which may go some way to explaining the anomaly.

'Local Timber For Local Miners'; after all, this was why the Forestry Commission was estabished after WW1, to ensure we had pit-props and similar.

[The Johnster]

More about the Marshfield pit prop depot; it was a huge site, now an industrial estate but the original boundaries can be clearly traced on the modern map, fanning out for some considerable distance alongside and south of the SWML.  The props, cut to length in their countries of origin, Scandinavia, East Germany, the Baltic States or Russia, prior to shipping, were stacked across the sidings ready for loading, which I think was done by mobile road cranes in later years, maybe steam rail cranes previously.  It was necessary to store the timber for some time for it to mature before sending it out to the pits, and there was always a huge quantity on hand undergoing this process.  Loading into the 5-plankers was done in a specific way which I know very little about to maximise wagon capacity and ensure the load was stable; after all the props, basically shaved logs, had a tendency to roll about...

 

It was, by all accounts, a bit of a warren of sidings where you could get lost between piles of timber, and never the same layout twice so you had to keep your wits about you!  It was serviced by a hired BR shunter and crew, Docks 08 in my day but previously a Canton 57xx which also worked the trip out from the Roath Dock and the empties back at the end of the day, and in steam days was run by an impressive ex-military gentleman known as the the colonel, or the major, or something of that sort.  He was a bit of a railway enthusiast and used to visit the loco and it's crew at lunchtimes, often bringing rolls, sandwiches, and bottles of beer with him, not to mention the odd brace of rabbits or pheasant as he was a keen shooter who carried a rifle around the site with him, which ensured a welcome!  He, and his impressive handlebar moustache, were still remembered with some affection by Canton crews when I worked there 20 years later!

Edited January 12, 2017 by The Johnster

[Ruston]

I have made some progress.

 

Work on the electrics is stalled until I can get some more switches for controlling the points and uncouplers, and a plugs and sockets to connect the control box to the baseboards. So I have done a bit on the scenics.

The basis of the stream bed is done and the beginnings of a road overbridge and retaining wall are in place. I am going to have the headshunt crossing the stream under the road bridge so future extension of the layout is possible. The tight turn in the stream is due to it having been diverted when the railway came to the valley and this section will have a brick retaining wall.

 

Earlier I had said how I was wondering about how to have PO wagons but keep the location fictional - well, I have the solution - World War 2. I can legitimately run all of these different PO wagons under wartime pooling arrangements.

 

I have decided to shorten the scenic section to 5ft. to avoid having the baseboard join on the scenic section so now the break will be at the first turnout at the LH end. Of course this means more fiddle yard space is available.

 

The great thing about OO is that I don't have to scratchbuild all the buildings, as I do in O gauge. This RTP building is by Bachmann and is sold as "Pendon washhouse" but I think it looks good as a cabin for shunters and possibly as a signal box. As a signalbox it won't control points but will control signals to prevent conflicting movements to and from the GWR. Having seen pictures of Welsh colliery lines with lower quadrant signals I think this is plausible. When I say signalbox I mean more somewhere for the man controlling the signals and comings and goings of the colliery company trains as the lever frame will be outside.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ruston

[Fat Controller]

I have made some progress.

 

Work on the electrics is stalled until I can get some more switches for controlling the points and uncouplers, and a plugs and sockets to connect the control box to the baseboards. So I have done a bit on the scenics.

 

The basis of the stream bed is done and the beginnings of a road overbridge and retaining wall are in place. I am going to have the headshunt crossing the stream under the road bridge so future extension of the layout is possible. The tight turn in the stream is due to it having been diverted when the railway came to the valley and this section will have a brick retaining wall.

 

Earlier I had said how I was wondering about how to have PO wagons but keep the location fictional - well, I have the solution - World War 2. I can legitimately run all of these different PO wagons under wartime pooling arrangements.

 

I have decided to shorten the scenic section to 5ft. to avoid having the baseboard join on the scenic section so now the break will be at the first turnout at the LH end. Of course this means more fiddle yard space is available.

 

 

The great thing about OO is that I don't have to scratchbuild all the buildings, as I do in O gauge. This RTP building is by Bachmann and is sold as "Pendon washhouse" but I think it looks good as a cabin for shunters and possibly as a signal box. As a signalbox it won't control points but will control signals to prevent conflicting movements to and from the GWR. Having seen pictures of Welsh colliery lines with lower quadrant signals I think this is plausible. When I say signalbox I mean more somewhere for the man controlling the signals and comings and goings of the colliery company trains as the lever frame will be outside.

A weighbridge hut, perhaps?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Ruston

[Ruston]

I had thought about that but then if there is ever an extension I think it would look wrong having a weighbridge on a through running line. Unless I make the weighbridge in such a way that it can be easily removed if the extension ever happens.

[The Johnster]

Coming along nicely, Ruston; that Peckett looks completely at home!  WW2 is a good enough reason for pooled PO wagons, but it'll look a lot more convincing IMHO if the liveries are toned down a bit, as things got mucky quickly around collieries; a basic weathering wash will do the trick, and the lovely little engine will stand out a bit more!  And you can mix a few RCH big 4 7-plankers in as well...

 

The NCB lines were in the habit of marking the rear wagon of trains, when they made them up and as distinct from shunting 'cuts' of wagons, with a bucket, sack, or even old newspaper on the rear hook or a brake handle serving as a makeshift tail lamp so that everybody could see the train was complete.

[The Johnster]

On the Sirhowy line they used old North London stock with wooden benches for workmen' strains. I've also seen photos of older pre grouping stop used for this work.

 

Regards.

 

This sounds more like a workman's service rather than a paddy train.

Edited January 13, 2017 by The Johnster

[Respite]

The NCB lines were in the habit of marking the rear wagon of trains, when they made them up and as distinct from shunting 'cuts' of wagons, with a bucket, sack, or even old newspaper on the rear hook or a brake handle serving as a makeshift tail lamp so that everybody could see the train was complete.

Really? In all my colliery visits in Scotland, England and Wales I never saw this. What period do you refer to please as it could have been before I started visiting NCB systems.

[The Johnster]

Really? In all my colliery visits in Scotland, England and Wales I never saw this. What period do you refer to please as it could have been before I started visiting NCB systems.

 

Seen it done at Coed Ely, Maesteg and Blaenserchan in the late 60s and early 70s, and I would have though Graig Merthyr was that sort of setup as well.  It was probably more associated with systems with trips between locations rather than the more usual colliery with just a yard in which shunting took place.  Not sure whether it was official practice or just common sense from the railwaymen on the ground.

Edited January 14, 2017 by The Johnster

[Ruston]

One step back and two forwards. The walling and bridge shown in the previous post was the second attempt. The first attempt used a textured printed stone paper. It looked very realistic when viewed under good lighting conditions and daylight but once it was under the shed's electric light only the texturing threw shadows which were random lumps and didn't correspond with the stonework at all. In fact under the desk lamp the shadows copletely overpowered the stonework. So the second attempt used Slaters plasticard stone. I wasn't really happy with it so today the third attempt uses Wills stone sheets and is much better. The Wills stuff isn't easy to work so the arched road bridge has gone in favour of a steel girder span.

 

I have also scratchbuilt a railway bridge and have done some work on the stream and its retaining wall. The weight-bearing section is not visible in this view.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ruston

[Corbs]

Looks really good already. The channeled stream and railway together puts me in mind of the bridge by the Whistle Inn on the Pontypool and Blaenavon.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Corbs

[philip-griffiths]

The Wills stone sheets is much better.  Your original retaining wall did not say 'South Wales'.

[Ruston]

This week I 'ave bin mostly... DOIN' ELECTRICS.

 

And, to my amazement, it all worked first time.

 

 

Multi-coloured spaghetti.

 

Control box for points and uncouplers.

 

First run of a loco on the track. More work done on the retaining walls and water in the stream.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

The incline has been laid, along with some static grass (the excess still needs to be vacuumed up).

 

Capping stones and railings added to the retaining wall, and stone setts added to the surface.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ruston

[5050]

I'm a bit concerned about that large white palm tree in the background

 

Otherwise it's all coming together nicely, the chapel (sorry) church front looks excellent.  How did you get on with the chairs?

[Ruston]

I'm a bit concerned about that large white palm tree in the background

 

Otherwise it's all coming together nicely, the chapel (sorry) church front looks excellent.  How did you get on with the chairs?

You were right about them being brittle. I tried about 5 and they all split so I didn't bother with them in the end and glued the rail straight to the longitudinal timbers on the bridge. In this tiny scale no one will notice their absence . 

[Ruston]

Turning to the other end of the scenic section, I have built a bridge over the stream and the connection to the GWR. The colliery line will be crossed by level crossing.

And now the stream looks less like a canal and has some movement in it.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ruston

[PaulRhB]

What did you do with the stream with please

[Ruston]

What did you do with the stream with please

To add the ripples? I poured Woodland Scenics "realistic water" on and just as it was beginning to set I drew the other end of a paintbrush through it. When it was set a little more I randomly pressed the end of the paintbrush into it to leave dimples.

[Andrew P]

I've just found this Dave, wow and absolutely excellent, I did like the weathering on the Locos, superb, looking forward to much more soon.