Andrew P Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 LET EM GO. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21813811/ferrari-adds-talk-breakaway-series-quit-threat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted December 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2017 Ferrari is bluffing. They're not leaving F1, they need it too much as a marketing tool for their 'regular' business. Besides, if they don't participate, they won't stand any chance of winning anything, don't they? And Liberty knows it.... But surely if they form a breakaway using Ferrari engines and chassis on a Haas type agreement to all participants they couldn’t lose??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 There has been talk of breakaway before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 But surely if they form a breakaway using Ferrari engines and chassis on a Haas type agreement to all participants they couldn’t lose??? Would it carry the same kudos as F1? No it wouldnt, and F1 has survived when all the other teams have left and most have returned a few years later, I think Ferrari need F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari, in fact F1 doesnt need Ferrari at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I would guess that Liberty need to understand what attracts the vast majority to watch F1 more than any other race series. I watch it in the belief that it is the pinnacle of man/machine race craft. Recent years have made that belief wobble a bit, with temptations to watch other forms, 2 and 4 wheel, on many occasions (mainly because they were there, available and free), but nothing else quite does it for me. Is it the history, and the decades of following it, or is it the continuous change, which you just do not see elsewhere? The latter makes me struggle to understand the new configurations, rules and new tactics needed, to ensure I can follow the logic of what is occurring in each race. But during the several seasons it became a procession - particularly during the Schumi years - my attention wandered. If Ferrarri bog off but the races are just as competitive, it won't matter to me. I thought the end had come when Murray retired, but I still kept watching. Nothing can be worse than losing Murray. Except not having a single British driver to squirm over. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 That's told him. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21835468/marchionne-expects-vettel-less-emotional-2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 That's told him. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/21835468/marchionne-expects-vettel-less-emotional-2018 Love it. An Italian telling a German not to be emotional, having openly criticised a completely asocial Finn for not pulling his weight. Meanwhile, I will throw my dummy right out of the arena if you dare mention levelling the playing field a little bit. Why don't they just recognise that invading Abyssinia was their modern peak (or perhaps the AlfaSud, the Doblo van of course, and the Pendolino, and maybe Piedmonte wine and a few dresses from Milan), or retire gracefully from modern life, and leave the ashes of their PR and marketing in the hands of Clarkson, or similar? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ah, but as Ferrari were more than 140 points behind Mercedes at season-end, they could do a great deal better and still not win. And since Mercedes are now airing the possibility of squeezing 1000 bhp out of their engine, Ferrari may still struggle. I do hope so. The fact that they were 140 points behind speaks to more of the performance [or relative lack of performance] of Kimi more than the actual car. Ferrari did have a race winning car in 2017 and there would be weekends where Kimi was going through the motions or simply mailing it in (granted there were some weekends where he was not). The points difference between Vettel and Raikkonen was 112 points and between Hamilton and Bottas was 57. Kimi was also 100 points behind Bottas. If Kimi had Bottas's point total (or similar), then the difference would not have been 140 points, and we wouldn't be questioning the Ferrari chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ferrari have no option other then retaining Kimi, he's the "best" of the sub-top drivers. Take out the top 4 spots (Lewis, Max, Daniel and Seb) with 2 of those in the same team and Ferrari's options are limited to get a better driver as Bottas is already at Merc and getting either Max or Daniel would surely cause rubbings with Vettel, as he knows d*mn well both will be challenging his #1 driver status PDQ. (read as: instantly) Yes but I was pointing out that you need to read in between the lines when looking at the final result rather than go for the obvious. The devil is in the details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I still think Ferrari should have bitten the bullet for 2017, or now for 18, and taken a gamble on a young talent like Ocon or Perez for example, (others available) that would have been so pleased to get the Drive, they would have proved their worth, rather than just driving around to pick up what Points they could, and also put some fire back into a Team that is merely going through the Motions for the Start Money and occasional glory. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Yes but I was pointing out that you need to read in between the lines when looking at the final result rather than go for the obvious. The devil is in the details. There's lies, damned lies... and statistics... If it's any consolation, D-M I agree with your original post, you could quite easily argue that Merc lost quite a few points that they should have had so the gap could have been bigger... There's lies, damned lies and statistics! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) The fact that they were 140 points behind speaks to more of the performance [or relative lack of performance] of Kimi more than the actual car. Ferrari did have a race winning car in 2017 and there would be weekends where Kimi was going through the motions or simply mailing it in (granted there were some weekends where he was not). The points difference between Vettel and Raikkonen was 112 points and between Hamilton and Bottas was 57. Kimi was also 100 points behind Bottas. If Kimi had Bottas's point total (or similar), then the difference would not have been 140 points, and we wouldn't be questioning the Ferrari chassis. One of Kimi's functions is to make Vettel look a bit better than he really is. He knows it and that is bound to take the ultimate edge off his performance. Seb and Ferrari both want, and have got, the same thing - a No.2 driver who won't rock the boat by presenting a real challenge to the No.1 driver. Whilst that attitude prevails, one of the prancing horses will always be a gelding. The obvious candidates to replace Kimi know what's what and probably calculate they will have a better chance of beating Seb in a Red Bull next season than in a Ferrari. John Edited December 23, 2017 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) So who is starting the NEW Thread for F1 2018 ? Edited January 1, 2018 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2018 So who is starting the NEW Thread for F1 2018 ? Normally it is Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Normally it is Ian. Or 57XX started this one, but previously on F1 it was Ian. hahha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 1, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 Or 57XX started this one, but previously on F1 it was Ian. hahha Yes, normally was Ian, he was slow off the mark last year so I chipped in. Anyone can create one if they want. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 I’m not bright enough this morning. Same excuse as last year - Mrs OD forcing me to help her empty three bottles of Prosecco, and occasionally dragging me onto the dance floor. Life can be tough at 69. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Thanks Ian for stating the New F1 2018 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129637-formula-1-2018/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Farewell 2017. Do we suppose the Max Ferrari smash up will emerge as one of the most replayed clips from former seasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2018 Farewell 2017. Do we suppose the Max Ferrari smash up will emerge as one of the most replayed clips from former seasons? It is certainly up there with Barcelona 2016 for a team making a comprehensive horlicks of things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Biggest difference though is that after Barcelona 2016, Mercedes went on to win both titles. Singapore 2017 was really the point at which Ferrari lost the chance of having a driver win the World Championship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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