Model Rail/Rapido Trains GER/LNER 'J70' 0-6-0T 'Project Toby'

[drt7uk]

On 03/06/2022 at 09:05, NHY 581 said:

 

 

They are rather nice, aren't they. I had two but moved them on. However, I regretted it and now have two other examples. My first two were  indifferent runners to be honest but the two I have now are much better.  I just need to weather them now....but at least they have a nice home to play in.

 

 

 

 

Rob

 

 

Rob your layout looks great! How did you do the reeds and bulrushes?

[NHY 581]

12 minutes ago, drt7uk said:

 

Rob your layout looks great! How did you do the reeds and bulrushes?

 

Thanks, 

 

Easier to direct you to either the October issue of BRM which has an article on the layout.....

 

Or........

 

Jump in here....but don't say I didn't warn you ! 

 

 

 

Rob

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by NHY 581

[AlfaZagato]

Rapido confirmed with me that the MRC "Tech" series of controllers are OK for their coreless motors, as in the J70.   Just to avoid the 1300/1370 controllers.

 

Were GER sector/region plates still carried in LNER service?  I have 7128 in wartime NE.   I was able to find pic of her in Wisbech in 1937.   My understanding was that the GER and BR plates both were carried offset next to the doors.   The pic I found has the one door open to cover that location.

 

Also, has anyone had any luck in setting the side windows open?  Mine came with plenty of etched frames to do so.   It did look like, though, that Rapido had molded an raised edge next to the side windows.

 

[Dungrange]

Well reading through this thread from post 1 was a marathon!

 

When the list of liveries was first announced and it didn't include the early GER livery (which I think is the most attractive), I kind of lost interest in the J70 project.  I can understand why Model Rail didn't take the plunge, because there was nothing else available ready-to-run.

 

Move forward a couple of years and we now have a GER van produced by Oxford Rail and the Wisbech and Upwell Bogie coaches being produced in GER liveried train packs with a C53 in matching livery being produced by Rapido.  I've pre-ordered one of the GER train packs being produced by Rapido, so I now have the locomotive that I quite fancied from a few years ago (even if it predates the rest of my stock by the best part of a century).  However, to build a layout requires more than one locomotive, so I'm wondering, does the fact that Rapido are producing GER livery variants increase or decrease the potential demand for a stand-alone GER version from Model Rail in the future?

 

Clearly some that may have purchased a GER version if Model Rail had produced one may not do so now (either because they bought an LNER/BR version and repainted it, or because they can buy the Rapido train pack), but equally the availability of the GER train packs from Rapido could actually increase demand.  It does in my case: am I alone?

[Dungrange]

On 12/06/2021 at 18:47, EHertsGER said:

Reference to Peter Paye’s book on the W&U will give numbers and their build dates - several of the J70s never saw blue livery, going straight to crimson and grey. Others duplicated old Y6 numbers.

 

For those who don’t fancy painting the skirts, 138 was seen in at least one photograph with black skirts so all you need are the decals if you don’t mind black buffer shanks.

 

 

The three C53s that entered traffic in March 2021 obviously went straight to crimson and grey, but did any of the locomotives that were built between 1903 and 1914 carry the crimson and grey livery?

 

What date was the photograph of 138 with black skirts? Any idea why they weren't either blue or grey?

[Dungrange]

On 31/03/2021 at 15:56, Edwardian said:

Grey is the Hill's wartime locomotive livery (applied IIRC from 1915).  It was, therefore, applied to the skirts of the tram locomotives in place of ultramarine blue lined red with black border.

 

Coach livery went from varnished wood/painted coach brown, to crimson lake ic.1919.

 

This leads to at least three liveries for the Tram engines before Grouping:

 

Original: Ultramarine skirts with body painted coach brown

 

From c.1915, Grey skirts with coach brown body

 

From, c.1919-1921, Grey skirts and crimson body

 

I understand that the trams' wooden bodies were built and maintained by the carriage and wagon department, not the locomotive department.  

 

I daresay that there were other, more minor, livery variants, but that's just a summary off the top of my head. 

 

Do we know whether any definitely carried grey skirts with coach brown bodies?  I'm assuming that those constructed in 1914 would have kept their blue skirts throughout the war and if any were painted with grey skirts before the 1919 that it would most likely have been those from the earliest (ie 1903) batch.

[NHY 581]

7 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Well reading through this thread from post 1 was a marathon!

 

When the list of liveries was first announced and it didn't include the early GER livery (which I think is the most attractive), I kind of lost interest in the J70 project.  I can understand why Model Rail didn't take the plunge, because there was nothing else available ready-to-run.

 

Move forward a couple of years and we now have a GER van produced by Oxford Rail and the Wisbech and Upwell Bogie coaches being produced in GER liveried train packs with a C53 in matching livery being produced by Rapido.  I've pre-ordered one of the GER train packs being produced by Rapido, so I now have the locomotive that I quite fancied from a few years ago (even if it predates the rest of my stock by the best part of a century).  However, to build a layout requires more than one locomotive, so I'm wondering, does the fact that Rapido are producing GER livery variants increase or decrease the potential demand for a stand-alone GER version from Model Rail in the future?

 

Clearly some that may have purchased a GER version if Model Rail had produced one may not do so now (either because they bought an LNER/BR version and repainted it, or because they can buy the Rapido train pack), but equally the availability of the GER train packs from Rapido could actually increase demand.  It does in my case: am I alone?

 

 

Morning DG, 

 

I'm pretty much the same as you. I would have bought the pre-grouping version if they'd been released at the time by Model Rail.. However, now they're on the way, I've taken the plungecand ordered two 'blue' train packs. Attractive as the Crimson coaches may be, I prefer the original loco livery so brown coaches it is. 

 

They're going to look a bit out of place on my little W&U layout which is far too scruffy for the early years of the line but we can get around that, I'm sure. 

 

As for your livery queries, I'll need to get the books out later.

 

Rob. 

[Dungrange]

On 31/03/2021 at 15:56, Edwardian said:

This leads to at least three liveries for the Tram engines before Grouping:

 

Original: Ultramarine skirts with body painted coach brown

 

From c.1915, Grey skirts with coach brown body

 

From, c.1919-1921, Grey skirts and crimson body 

 

Was the grey used for the wartime livery, the same as the grey used with the crimson bodywork?  Would the G E R lettering have been the same or was a simpler style adopted during the war?

[Dungrange]

On 13/03/2023 at 06:00, NHY 581 said:

Attractive as the Crimson coaches may be, I prefer the original loco livery so brown coaches it is. 

That's my opinion too, so I may have to follow the same approach as you.

 

On 13/03/2023 at 06:00, NHY 581 said:

They're going to look a bit out of place on my little W&U layout which is far too scruffy for the early years of the line but we can get around that, I'm sure. 

 

If I can produce a layout as good as yours I'll be happy.  It definitely has a look of Outwell Basin to my eye, which I assume was the inspiration.

[NHY 581]

26 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

That's my opinion too, so I may have to follow the same approach as you.

 

 

If I can produce a layout as good as yours I'll be happy.  It definitely has a look of Outwell Basin to my eye, which I assume was the inspiration.

 

 

DG, you're too kind. Yes, Outwell was indeed part of the inspiration. As I say though, EWE is a bit too weedy etc to host pre WW1 GER stock so I may have to come up with somewhere else for these blue J70s to play....as well as a blue Buckjumper or two. 

 

Perhaps a Wisbech Harbour branch inspired project ? 

 

Rob 

[matchmaker]

I've just purchased one. Looks like a lovely model, but I'm having problems in fitting the decoder as I'm not sure which way round it goes! The decoder is a Dapol Imperium 5. One way it fits - just. The other way round it fouls the PCB. I can't get the loco to move either way round...any thoughts, hints?

 

I baulked a bit at fitting sound as paying more for the decoder than I paid for the loco seemed a bit much, although I might bite the bullet in the future.

[MarcD]

Has anyone converted one to P4 yet and if yes what did you do?

marc

[Edwardian]

Quick question if I may.

 

Are there any happy users of a Model Rail J70 who use tension lock couplings and therefore do not need the alternative cowcatchers supplied?

 

Happy to offer cold hard cash for same.

 

Please feel free to PM.

[NHY 581]

As I mentioned on the 'train pack' thread, the failure of Rapido to supply the etches and alternative cow catchers with the GER train packs, as per the original issue of the Model Rail J70s, is a bit of a let down and takes the shine off what is otherwise a lovely release. 

 

Given the cost of these train packs, I don't think it was unreasonable to expect these to be included. 

 

Rob

 

 

[NHY 581]

Droning on.......looking back to Rapido's webpage for the train packs we see this...

 

Our batch of ‘C53s’ feature all the same high-quality details as Model Rail’s ‘J70s’ but have an upgraded circuit board and Next18 decoder socket. There are also sound-fitted packs too, featuring an exclusive sound project supplied by Digitrains.

 

 

Open to interpretation but.......

[NXEA!]

6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Quick question if I may.

 

Are there any happy users of a Model Rail J70 who use tension lock couplings and therefore do not need the alternative cowcatchers supplied?

 

Happy to offer cold hard cash for same.

 

Please feel free to PM.

You’ll have a PM shortly. 

[CrazyBattleGoose]

Hey all, has anyone taken the wood panels off one before? I've got the dcc sound version from the train pack and want to install the recommended ESU mini stay alive since it really struggles at the club layout. But the SA is WAY to big to fit with the Chassis. I was thinking I'd fit it above the boiler out of sight but I can't get it through the doors.

 

The roof and sides appear to be one piece, and then the front and back are another... I'd prefer to take the roof section off but just wondered if someone has experience doing this and could offer advice so I don't break the new model....

 

Thanks for any advice 

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, CrazyBattleGoose said:

Hey all, has anyone taken the wood panels off one before? I've got the dcc sound version from the train pack and want to install the recommended ESU mini stay alive since it really struggles at the club layout. But the SA is WAY to big to fit with the Chassis. I was thinking I'd fit it above the boiler out of sight but I can't get it through the doors.

 

The roof and sides appear to be one piece, and then the front and back are another... I'd prefer to take the roof section off but just wondered if someone has experience doing this and could offer advice so I don't break the new model....

 

Thanks for any advice 

 

Evening Goosee, 

 

Yes, the roof and sides are one piece. Here are some photos I took. Bear in mind, that the chassis is encased by the solid cast boiler which will need working on if you are to locate a stay alive in the gap between the boiler and the interior of the body. 

 

You will need some thin plastic wedges to open up the gap between the metal chassis and the plastic body. The body will need gently prising away from the clips securing it to the chassis. 

 

 

The ends will then drop out

 

Components. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this helps a tad. 

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CrazyBattleGoose]

35 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Evening Goosee, 

 

Yes, the roof and sides are one piece. Here are some photos I took. Bear in mind, that the chassis is encased by the solid cast boiler which will need working on if you are to locate a stay alive in the gap between the boiler and the interior of the body. 

 

You will need some thin plastic wedges to open up the gap between the metal chassis and the plastic body. The body will need gently prising away from the clips securing it to the clips securing it to the chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

This helps immensely knowing they're just clipped in.

 

Yes I was thinking of drilling a small hole through the footplate or die-cast boiler to run the wires down to decoder depending on what's most hidden or feasible.

 

Thanks again for the response!

[CrazyBattleGoose]

Also that wood weathering in the last photo is absolutely beautiful 

[Caledonian]

Very nicely weathered !

[Gilbert]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

Very nicely weathered !

Please don't encourage him! Think of the resale value....🙄

Chris H

[NHY 581]

52 minutes ago, CrazyBattleGoose said:

Also that wood weathering in the last photo is absolutely beautiful 

 

Thanks. That was a work in progress......

 

A few more. 

 

 

 

 

Rob

Edited December 27, 2023 by NHY 581

[Downer]

A little information about how you achieve that remarkable wood weathering would be much appreciated.

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Downer said:

A little information about how you achieve that remarkable wood weathering would be much appreciated.

 

Will do D. 

 

The bodies, having been further dismantled by the removal of the ends were given an initial spray with the matt varnish to act as a key for the weathering powders. I don't currently possess an airbrush so am reliant mainly on weathering powders. 

I decided to follow my "method" of weathering vans and other planked wagons, as here. This method has been tweaked over a number of years and to some, it might seem a bit of a leap of faith due to the manner in which the finish is achieved.............

 

The bodies of the real  J70s were painted, rather than varnished wood but I wanted to add my own take on these locos. There is, to the best of my knowledge, only one colour view of these locos. That was taken at Stratford of a loco, post withdrawal. So, we are reliant on those available black and white images, which are open to interpretation. Therefore, this is my interpretation...................

 

The first powder applied was an overall dusting of smoke, inside and out allowing it to settle into the gaps in the planks.

 

 

Some shading was applied to the plank detail on the interior of the ends using black on the edges before the smoke was added over the top.

The end doors, were fitted and weathered at the same time. If they were to be modelled open, they were done prior to fitting.

 

Once happy, the whole body was once again sprayed with matt varnish to seal the powder.

Once dry ( a matter of minutes ), the smoke was removed from each individual plank using a 2mm fibre brush, working horizontally from the centre of the plank out to the edges.

 

 

Varying the time spent doing this, varied the finished colour. Take "the edge" off the fibre brush first and practice on something first as these

locos are effectively unobtanium. This image illustrates the final effect. 

 

 

Further variation was added by applying small amounts of dark rust (yep, really) and further smoke to individual planks. This was then worked in using a larger, softer 4mm fibre brush. This in effect polishes the planks but provides both texture and variation.

 

You cannot rush this. Basically when it looks about right, it probably is. And if you think it might be, put it down and leave well alone or you risk a visit from the Cock-up Fairy.

 

A bit of white was added to edges here and there and a pencil used to suggest worn metal on the lamp irons etc and that was essentially that. This later photo illustrates the high lights from the white. 

 

 

The rooves had black applied to the rain strips and around the chimney. Bells were picked out using gold acrylic and the whole roof was the weatgered using a mixture of dark earth and smoke before being sealed.

 

All three of my J70s were weathered in this way and they rightly vary from one to the other, providing the finish I was after.

 

Rob.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by NHY 581
Photos added