Royal Navy Landing Craft -Train (LCT) and Landing Craft Infantry

[Al.]

As a bit of a distraction to Remagen, I've been gathering scenic materials on a second layout. During one of these shopping sprees I managed to pick up two Revell Landing Ship models for next to nothing.

 

 

The kit is pretty good and well detailed model of the US landing ships used by the US Marine Coups in the WW2 Pacific theatre. There are to my knowledge any records of them being used in Europe during the war. Therefore a bit of kit bashing is in order to turn them closer to something the Royal Navy would use. And of course modify them to carry rolling stock, instead of tanks, at the same time.

 

After half hour or so scribbling on the instruction book, I'd come up with the idea of moving the wheelhouse to the strun of the hull; which is still to tackled. And embed tracks into the vehicle deck; which has been done and wired up on the event I ever want to run trains on or off the ship.

 

 

The build will starting on the second one soon. And then when I have Landing Ship (Meduim) - Train built, I'll then have the problem of deciding what to do with them....!

 

 

Al.

[phil_sutters]

As a bit of a distraction to Remagen, I've been gathering scenic materials on a second layout. During one of these shopping sprees I managed to pick up two Revell Landing Ship models for next to nothing.

 

image.jpeg

 

The kit is pretty good and well detailed model of the US landing ships used by the US Marine Coups in the WW2 Pacific theatre. There are to my knowledge any records of them being used in Europe during the war. Therefore a bit of kit bashing is in order to turn them closer to something the Royal Navy would use. And of course modify them to carry rolling stock, instead of tanks, at the same time.

 

After half hour or so scribbling on the instruction book, I'd come up with the idea of moving the wheelhouse to the strun of the hull; which is still to tackled. And embed tracks into the vehicle deck; which has been done and wired up on the event I ever want to run trains on or off the ship.

 

image.jpeg

 

The build will starting on the second one soon. And then when I have Landing Ship (Meduim) - Train built, I'll then have the problem of deciding what to do with them....!

 

 

Al.

The trouble with landing ships is that they usually landed on beaches, sometimes with the bow clear of the water, but often in a few feet of water. How you would disembark rolling stock I am not sure. They are not like ferries, where the rail decks are well above the waterline and they can approach a rail-served dock, floating. The landing craft, once the bow doors are open will usually take in water, as the deck is very close to the hull bottom, therefore relying on flotation compartments in the sides, to keep the vessel sea-worthy.

[stevejjjexcov]

Being of a shallow draft would this create stability problems in anything but a flat calm when loaded with rolling stock?

Just a thought

Steve

P.S. Love Remagen a great layout and brilliantly modeled

[Al.]

Phil.

 

I don't disagree with you. However here is your photo evidence.

 

 

 

Granted, this is a LST, rather then a LSM, but the principle is proven. All I need to do is figure out how to work it into a layout

 

 

Al.

[Fat Controller]

A small amount of rolling stock arrived on the Normandy beaches in this style; there was quite a famous photo of a small British diesel being towed off the ramp by a bulldozer. Most stock probably had to wait until Cherbourg was liberated, so that the docks there could be used, and the stock craned off.

[Al.]

A small amount of rolling stock arrived on the Normandy beaches in this style; there was quite a famous photo of a small British diesel being towed off the ramp by a bulldozer. Most stock probably had to wait until Cherbourg was liberated, so that the docks there could be used, and the stock craned off.

A small amount of rolling stock arrived on the Normandy beaches in this style; there was quite a famous photo of a small British diesel being towed off the ramp by a bulldozer. Most stock probably had to wait until Cherbourg was liberated, so that the docks there could be used, and the stock craned off.

A large number of train ferries were also pressed into service. There's a photo somewhere of one of the LNER ones loaded with American locos heading for Belguim.

 

 

Al.

[stevejjjexcov]

Thanks for posting the pics Al. As you say point proven. I have never see the photos in any of the ref books I have. As they say we live and learn

Steve

[The Johnster]

Another, admittedly more freelance, possibility is the idea of conversions to civilian train ferry use as post war surplus; many landing craft were converted for civilian use and some may still exist in this role.  Not particularly good for something like a Cross Channel service where proper ships were available and something a bit more capable of dealing with bad weather would be needed, but ideal for more sheltered waters and perhaps for the bigger European lakes.

 

I think I remember reading somewhere that these craft had compartments that could be flooded to enhance stability and the compartments pumped out when the vessel was required to run into shallow water for beachhead landings.  In many ways these and the larger LSTs were the forerunners of modern bow and/or stern loading dodo ferries, which have had their issues with stability if they are badly loaded or seawater gets into the car decks...

[pete_mcfarlane]

A small amount of rolling stock arrived on the Normandy beaches in this style; there was quite a famous photo of a small British diesel being towed off the ramp by a bulldozer. Most stock probably had to wait until Cherbourg was liberated, so that the docks there could be used, and the stock craned off.

I think that's the Andrew Barclay 0-4-0DM now in the Chatham Dockyard museum (or one of the same class). 

[Fat Controller]

I think that's the Andrew Barclay 0-4-0DM now in the Chatham Dockyard museum (or one of the same class). 

Could be; I remember seeing it on the front of a commemerative newspaper in France.

[Al.]

Another, admittedly more freelance, possibility is the idea of conversions to civilian train ferry use as post war surplus; many landing craft were converted for civilian use and some may still exist in this role.  Not particularly good for something like a Cross Channel service where proper ships were available and something a bit more capable of dealing with bad weather would be needed, but ideal for more sheltered waters and perhaps for the bigger European lakes.

 

I think I remember reading somewhere that these craft had compartments that could be flooded to enhance stability and the compartments pumped out when the vessel was required to run into shallow water for beachhead landings.  In many ways these and the larger LSTs were the forerunners of modern bow and/or stern loading dodo ferries, which have had their issues with stability if they are badly loaded or seawater gets into the car decks...

I know a few people have mentioned turning an LSM into a Civvie ship, but as yet not seen one completed (although I must admit I've not really looked very hard). I'm going to keep the military look and paint them up in RN colours. If and how they'll fit into a layout is still up in the air

 

 

Al.

[Al.]

A few more photos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Al.

[phil_sutters]

A few more photos.

 

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Al.

I am very happy to be educated on this point. I hadn't seen these photos or any like them before. It's amazing what one learns on RMweb!

[Arthur]

I note that they are wagons, and empty too. Would they have coped with the higher centres of gravity of large locomotives?

 

Edit. looking at the images there'd be insufficient headroom in the bow.

 

There's a thumbnail showing one of the Barclays being hauled up the beach in this post;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76520-hunslet-diesel-at-consett/?p=1169671

 

.

[Fat Controller]

The four-wheel open wagons, along with vans on the same chassis, were meant to be delivered as kits, and assembled after off-loading. The open wagons didn't last that long in French use, but examples of the vans could still be found in Departmental use a few years ago. Paul Bartlett has a photo of one of the few surviving opens here:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/longmarston/h16a30834#h16a30834

[Dave John]

Some fantastic archive pictures there. I had a vague idea that it happened, but never realised it was documented that well. 

 

Go for it, I love seeing folk have a shot at something original. 

[Gordon A]

Somewhere I have seen a picture of a Dean Goods fitted with pannier tanks being landed in France for use by the Railway Operating Division, but cannot find it at the moment.

I am not sure which World War it was either.

 

Gordon A

[Al.]

Progress update on the landing ship.

 

The rail deck has had its first coat of paint, and the wheelhouse is starting to tack shape on the sturn.

 

I'd originally intended to have the ramp and bow doors moveable, but due to the way the ramp interfaces with the rail deck, I'd end up with a 5mm gap in the rails, which is too big for n gauge wheels. So I've decided to have the doors fixed open and the ramp down.

 

 

More updates to come.

 

Al.

[Robert Searle]

Somewhere I have seen a picture of a Dean Goods fitted with pannier tanks being landed in France for use by the Railway Operating Division, but cannot find it at the moment.

I am not sure which World War it was either.

 

Gordon A

RMweb is possibly where you saw it.

Tales of war and peace part 1: Gladiator/Javelin Kits Dean Goods in 7mm

[Corbs]

 

RMweb is possibly where you saw it.

Tales of war and peace part 1: Gladiator/Javelin Kits Dean Goods in 7mm

 

shazam

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/100332-tales-of-war-and-peace-part-1-gladiatorjavelin-kits-dean-goods-in-7mm/

[PhilJ W]

Somewhere I have seen a picture of a Dean Goods fitted with pannier tanks being landed in France for use by the Railway Operating Division, but cannot find it at the moment.

I am not sure which World War it was either.

 

Gordon A

The Dean Goods side tanks were used for condensing the exhaust rather than carrying extra water as being close to the fighting they didn't want to attract any unwanted attention. The LST was a much larger vessel and several were converted to roll on/roll off ferries after the war. There are also photographs of Whitcombe diesel locomotives being unloaded using what looks like a temporary adjustable linkspan with a wooden gallows arrangement, rather like the Ratio locomotive hoist.

[Al.]

The Dean Goods side tanks were used for condensing the exhaust rather than carrying extra water as being close to the fighting they didn't want to attract any unwanted attention. The LST was a much larger vessel and several were converted to roll on/roll off ferries after the war. There are also photographs of Whitcombe diesel locomotives being unloaded using what looks like a temporary adjustable linkspan with a wooden gallows arrangement, rather like the Ratio locomotive hoist.

Any photos of the Deans Goods..?

[Corbs]

Any photos of the Deans Goods..?

in my post above

[jamie92208]

There has just been a 2 part article in Backtrack about train ferries.  I've left my copies in France but I think that the 2nd part had some photos of locos being loaded at Sothampton using some sort of moveable linkspan. 

 

Jamie

[Gordon A]

That's the loco but not the picture I was referring to.

 

Gordon