Jol Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Are we still talking definitions, then? Yes. Because, by defining something, it improve people's ability to comprehend it. Unless they prefer to live in blissful ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 Yes. Because, by defining something, it improve people's ability to comprehend it. Unless they prefer to live in blissful ignorance. Er, yes, OK Jol, that wasn't really what I was getting at, though. Having been away from the forum for a short period over the weekend, I was a little taken aback that people are still choosing to disagree about what constitutes a 'model railway' and a 'train set'. That's why I'm hoping that something exciting or outrageous (or both) will happen on this weeks episode, so as to give us something else to talk about for the next seven days. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 That's why I'm hoping that something exciting or outrageous (or both) will happen on this weeks episode... Dick saves the guy trapped under the submerged quad bike by using his giant moustache as a flotation aid. You heard it here first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 You know what, there are times when I think I'd be better off with a train set instead of a model railway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 That's why I'm hoping that something exciting or outrageous (or both) will happen on this weeks episode, so as to give us something else to talk about for the next seven days. Can anyone define exciting and outrageous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Can anyone define exciting and outrageous? Well apparently anyone can (and does) define model railway and train set, so I don't see why anyone shouldn't define exciting and outrageous. Meanwhile, given a choice between this and a documentary on the Voyager space mission, my other half said "definitely the trains". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Jol Attempting to draw a tight definition around something that many hold dear, whatever ‘it’ might be, simply causes arguments. And, if there is no need to define the thing, those arguments are, by definition pointless arguments. Not only pointless, but guaranteed to annoy many people., and make hardly anyone happy. Ambiguity only hurts if you allow it to. If you doubt what I say, read the past weeks worth of this thread. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Can anyone define exciting and outrageous? I can but it got me 3 months ( suspended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Jol Attempting to draw a tight definition around something that many hold dear, whatever ‘it’ might be, simply causes arguments. And, if there is no need to define the thing, those arguments are, by definition pointless arguments. Not only pointless, but guaranteed to annoy many people., and make hardly anyone happy. Ambiguity only hurts if you allow it to. If you doubt what I say, read the past weeks worth of this thread. Kevin Kevin, it was someone defining my modelling efforts to as being a trainset that prompted me to write as I did. The "public" are pretty ignorant of the skills and expertise that goes into creating a model railway. I know from speaking to them at a number of shows over a long time. They are often surprised at what we do (when explained) to achieve the results they see. So to describe a model railway as a trainset is demeaning and serves only to reinforce the stereotypical view of our hobby. What is wrong with definitions? I model the LNWR in 4mm scale. That illustrates what I choose to do, so I have no problem with that "definition". Perhaps the problem is with the use of the words description or definition. Perhaps definition is seen as more rigid and therefore makes people uncomfortable. Description can be more subjective and possibly inaccurate. I have read this thread since its inception, but that doesn't alter my view. The programme subject, for example, isn't a model railway or a trainset. It is an exercise in miniature engineering, teamwork and television programme production. Jol 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Dick saves the guy trapped under the submerged quad bike by using his giant moustache as a flotation aid. You heard it here first... Nahhhh. He was feeling peckish and had jumped in to filter some algae from the canal water....... btw How did things go today? I've got it recorded, but I'll watch it on Tuesday, when there's nothing on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Piewalker Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Err.... That wasn't the Flying Scotsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Err.... That wasn't the Flying Scotsman. It was being prepared for the Flying Scotsman service though, hence the headboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Piewalker Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I know, but at least it was essentially irrelevant to the actual programme I'm going to reserve my judgement on the programme as a whole until they get to the end... or not... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Back in 1964 BBC2 filmed 'The Steaming Ton' aboard the May 9 high-speed run from Plymouth to London. They filmed interviews during Clun Castle's epic run to Bristol, then fudged the Bristol-London stretch by pretending that the 'ton' had been reached despite the fact that speed never got above 94mph. TV people never let the facts stand in the way of a good story. I find this programme 'fudged' in that they keep repeating the claim that the Victorians COULDN'T build a line through this part of the Highlands. The Invergarry & Fort Augustus Railway was built from Speen Bridge to the water's edge at Fort Augustus, from where passengers took to the water to sail down Loch Ness to Inverness by paddle steamer. Fundamentally, there was no traffic for this railway and even as built it was a financial disaster. No one wanted to operate it. The Highland Railway took it on from opening for a few years before offloading it to the North British, who closed it after a short time, and put the track etc up for sale. The government forced them to re-instate it. Passenger service ended in 1933 and freight in 1947. The model railway would not be diminished in any way by recording the history correctly. George Heiron's painting was based on a photograph of Highland Railway 'Skye Bogie' 4-4-0 No. 48 at Fort Augustus. (CJL) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) 231G What did the ‘DS’ in CFDS signify? Is ‘S’ the Department? It’s fascinating whatever. The nearest I’ve seen a German military training railways, also 60cm, but unpretentiously narrow gauge. Your one looks as if Heywood’s french cousin designed it! K Chemins de Fer du Domaine de Sologne. (Sologne Estate Railway roughly translated) Sologne being the region of ponds,marshes and forests that covers parts of the Depatments of Loiret, Loir-et-Cher and Loiret. Back on topic (finally! ) I'm delighted to have been proved completely wrong about this series. I was very, very sceptical about it when it was first mooted but having just seen part two I'm really impressed. It's entertaining, informative and educative and if this doesn't help create a greater interest in engineering then nothing will. I'm finding the combination of railway modellers and professional engineers working really well and there's certainly a lesson in the chap pooh pooing Elf and Safety followed by someone else coming close to going in the canal with one of the quad bikes. The challenge is a real one and they have came clean about why the originally planned railway was never completed. I do have one query. Does the track actually include metal rails or is it all plastic? If the latter then why are expansion joints an issue? I don't BTW see plastic track as being "not model railway". I've got a box of the plastic track that came with Hornby's live steam "Rocket" including a coupel of points and I've never thought of that as being anything else. The BLR is also very clearly not a "train set". You don't scratchbuild long fuly practical viaducts for train sets. In answer to Dibber. I hope you're not accusing me of being a professional liar as I spent most of my career as a "television person", mainly as a producer and director and quite a lot of it in BBC newsrooms, and we certainly did let the facts get in the way of a planned story if that was the reality. That could be frustrating and it's not easy to abandon a programme item that simply isn't working, fortunately though the truth sometimes ade for a better story. I'm not saying that no producers ever lapse from telling the truth but I'm proud of most of the television that I produced. If you accused all local councilliors or cops of being corrupt, all teachers of bullying kids, all medical staff of not caring about their patients or even all politicians of "only being in it for themselves" i think others would quite rightly rap your knuckles for that. Claiming that all mainstream media is "false news" endangers our democaracy as I think we're now beginning to find out. BTW. One of the reasons why both Tomorrows World and Microlive (both of which I worked on, especially the latter) were live was precisely so that we couldn't be accused of "fixing" things in the editing suite. Edited January 14, 2018 by Pacific231G 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) @Pacific231G Hi (or should I say 'bonsoir'), Philou here, I've just caught up with this thread - unfortunately I haven't seen the episodes as I can't get UK television where I am (I don't have a VPN gateway). It's a reply to the OT point of the CFDS. I have found the location of the property on Google Maps if you haven't already so done. I couldn't see any earthworks via the Satellite - but as mentioned, it lies in an area that is heavily wooded. Here's the link: https://www.google.fr/maps/place/45370+M%C3%A9zi%C3%A8res-lez-Cl%C3%A9ry/@47.8175835,1.8469584,1308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e4e8c3ae2587a1:0x40dc8d70537da00!8m2!3d47.818596!4d1.804427 @Nearholmer Might I guess that CFDS stood for Chemin de Fer de la Sologne - as the property lies in the Sologne. Cheers, Philou Gah! As I was typing this response so 231G came up with the precise reply - sorry. Edited January 14, 2018 by Philou 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 The Invergarry & Fort Augustus Railway was built from Speen Bridge to the water's edge at Fort Augustus, from where passengers took to the water to sail down Loch Ness to Inverness by paddle steamer. Fundamentally, there was no traffic for this railway and even as built it was a financial disaster. All true, a textbook case of a railway that shouldn't have been built, but I can't help thinking if it had survived (not that it stood a chance of doing so) it would be doing very nicely as a tourist railway these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will J Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I do have one query. Does the track actually include metal rails or is it all plastic? If the latter then why are expansion joints an issue? All plastic, with a rubbery top along the tops of the rails which has already been confessed to on screen! (A very good plan) It was well capable of expansion though, but I'll say no more in case it becomes part of the story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) You know what, there are times when I think I'd be better off with a train set instead of a model railway. You just describe it a test track then it's respectable Loco-Revue came up with a nice name for a reseau (layout) that's just circuits of track with sidings to hold a range of locos and no scenery. They called such a layout a Locodrome. Edited January 14, 2018 by Pacific231G 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 All true, a textbook case of a railway that shouldn't have been built, but I can't help thinking if it had survived (not that it stood a chance of doing so) it would be doing very nicely as a tourist railway these days. However had the alternative route to Inverness via Aviemore not been built, it may have been a different story... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Chris Chewter Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 Best quote from episode 2: "This is a whole pile of engineering work, and I am looking for cream." I'm not too sure how that'll help but would you prefer single or double? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 Well, I enjoyed episode 2 immensely, but I'm not sure that I've warmed to Mr Spooner any more than last time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Jol I’m very familiar with non-participant ignorance when it comes to what is involved in making a model railway, and it sometimes requires super-human efforts of self-control when someone implies that what has taken years of craft all came packed in a box labelled Hornby, so I understand the urge, but .... “What is wrong with definitions?”. Nothing at all, when they are necessary, which they often are, but, I would suggest, a great deal when they aren’t. And, I strongly contend that having a precise definition of what is, and thereby what isn’t, a “model railway” is completely unnecessary, and almost certain to cause unnecessary unhappiness. Describing what one has done/created ......... got to be a good idea. But, a lot of people will never, in a million years ‘get’ railway modelling, especially very finescale modelling, because they simply don’t know enough about either the prototype, or what can and can’t be bought over the counter, to be able understand what you’ve achieved, or they simply aren’t moved by it. It’s the same as me not being able to ‘get’ why some people are so thoroughly into science-fiction or fantasy movies and all the associated movie-memorabilia; I’m just not moved by it. It seems Alien to me. Kevin Edited January 14, 2018 by Nearholmer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 A very enjoyable episode. The series is progressing well. I thought the viaduct was a masterpiece. Sadly the leader of the team who are responsible for the “incline” is not coming across well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimble Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Well, I've greatly enjoyed the shows so far... certainly the greatest Biggest Littlest Railway... loved the 60m viaduct! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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