Pushing wagons on non-passenger branch lines

[big jim]

the nuke trains from blaunau to trawsfynydd were propelled for the last few miles with a converted queen mary brake van doing the honours for traincrew

 

also shotton paper mill on the wrexham bidston line used to have a dedicated brake van at shotwick for propelling into the works from the exchange sidings as it needed to be propelled over an open crossing just outside the works, i believe the crossing is shut now since the queensferry/deeside by-pass road was built, just as well as the brake van has been sat burnt out since at least 2005 (there is also no rail traffic into there now anyway)

[br2975]

 There were still a few D95xx at the back of Canton shed awaiting disposal when I started in 1970, but I never saw one on the E76 or any other duty after they were withdrawn.  They would be started up and moved around the shed yard occasionally, presumably as demonstrators for potential buyers.

 

 

Johnster, just a quick break from doing the ironing !

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The last 'nine fiver' I saw working was probably the very start of December, 1969, when the last handful were still at Canton and just over six months after the last ones were withdrawn.

.

It was memorable as it was directly under the footbridge, on the siding between the old milk depot and the Brickyard.

.

It was early evening, dark and bitterly cold and we stood over the exhaust to keep warm.

.

I never saw one working for BR again after that.

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Right, back to the ironing and getting tea ready.

.

Brian R

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[MarcD]

I have just thought of another two examples. The GER's Snape branch and the NER's Croft branch. Both branches didn't have run rounds that could be used by a loco. The GER trains were propelled down hill to Snape Maltings running Brake, wagons/vans and loco at the back. I have only seen photos of the Croft Branch in the 1950-60's with a Ex-NER P3 0-6-0 pushing some steel coal hoppers towards the drops.

 

Marc  

[Gordon A]

How about the Pontnewynydd branch which had its own design of brake van Diag AA24 which had a lowered and sloped roof which gave the loco crews propelling the train a better view.

 

Gordon A

[Signaller69]

Hi Stu,

The ex LNWR Holywell branch goods was always propelled "up" the line right up to closure in 1957 (as were passenger trains), brake van either end (with max. 3 full or 5 empty wagons permitted due to the 1 in 27 gradient), "downhill" brake van was required due to loco running around at the terminus to shunt the reverse facing goods yard - as well as catch points provided in the goods loop (which was on a 1 in 50ish gradient).

 

The nearby Buckley (goods only) branch goods was also propelled in places due to the various sidings facing different directions, sometimes with the loco in the middle of a string of wagons!

[The Johnster]

Lovely photo Brian w, and it is not impossible that I was there!  6M71. The 37 has been sent down to a set position to stand on the through siding that used to connect with the Midland main line and still fed through to Temple Mead.  Lawrence Hill's 03 pilot places the Bristol portion of the train ('Pipe' wagons with drop sides and ends, allowed to run at 50mph; you can see them to the right of the train, which will give you some idea of the total length of it when it was fully made up, and how heavy it was on the return leg), with the vacuum fitted van at the rear, and, with me or one of my link mates in the van completely out of touch with the driver even when we could see the loco because the train is single manned and he is on the other side of the curve as he sets back out of the yard, we did a brake continuity test and the shunter rang for the road, walking up the train to call the driver back when he'd got it.  We would then perform a setting back movement on to the down relief until the loco cleared the ground position light that controlled the entrance to the yard, and Bristol panel set the road for us.  

 

Progress would be slow initially as it was a good way towards Dr Day's before the driver could see the guard from his side of the train and get the 'right away' from him, by which time he'd have to ease off for the curve, and it would not be until the van had cleared North Somerset Junction and he was well nigh past East Depot that he could open up; we'd usually have a pretty clear run, then.  This slow start with a long train meant that the panel had to be aware of the traffic to be kept running on the Filton up relief, and the down and up mains, and sometimes it would be a while before he could arrange a path; another consideration was that, because of the length of the train, he had to guarantee a clear road for us from North Somerset Junction before allowing us on to the curve or we'd block the curve and Dr. Day's.  So, I'd be sat in the van thumbtwiddling, almost at Stapleton Road, waiting for something to happen for what sometimes seemed like an age.

 

Lawrence Hill, with pilots, shunting staff, wagon examiners, TOPS terminals, telephones and everything, was a bit of a contrast to Canton sidings, were you were left to your own devices to prep the train, do the brake test, find a lamp to put on and light it amongst the broad gauge ghosts and tumbleweed...

 

That is not a propelling movement in the sense that I think the thread means, though, merely a setting back shunting movement within a single MAS block section.  We were not, IIRC, required to show a white lamp on the leading vehicle, in this case the brake van, which is IMHO as good a way as any of defining a right road propelling movement   But you have awakened some memories; thank you!

 

I used to enjoy the transit of Box Tunnel on this train, as you got a chance to have a look at the inside, which is mostly bare limestone rock which in places looks remarkably like a natural cave, except for the climate controlled entrances to the strategic reserve underground depot, where fleets of brand new 9Fs were being test run...  there was no back working, we were booked home on the cushions from Swindon.

[Nearholmer]

I'm not totally sure, but I think it is "downhill" from the Oxford-Bletchley line to Calvert, although not a great gradient.

 

There were other propelling moves in that area in the recent past, too, in connection with the fertiliser trains to Akeman Street. AS was a bit strange, being a dead-end that served as a headshunt, so the train was hauled down the branch, then shoved back to the junction, then went all the way to Aylesbury to run round.

 

Still an interesting freight-only line, with trains of rubbish to Calvert three of four days a week, but no propelling now.

 

K

[sulzer27jd]

The former Caledonian Railway line to Kirriemuir, had two public sidings worked by the LMS from 1934 and BR until closure of the branch, using wagons propelled between the sidings and the terminus. This being over a passenger line, for a distance of up to 2 miles.

 

John

The ICI plant in Dumfries was latterly served up until closure (early 90's I think) by a train propelled from Dumfries station yard to the plant. The plant was located on the remains of the old Port Road to Stranraer. It was usually worked by a class 26 with a brake van leading down the branch (if I recall correctly). 

[big jim]

I'm not totally sure, but I think it is "downhill" from the Oxford-Bletchley line to Calvert, although not a great gradient.

 

There were other propelling moves in that area in the recent past, too, in connection with the fertiliser trains to Akeman Street. AS was a bit strange, being a dead-end that served as a headshunt, so the train was hauled down the branch, then shoved back to the junction, then went all the way to Aylesbury to run round.

 

Still an interesting freight-only line, with trains of rubbish to Calvert three of four days a week, but no propelling now.

 

K

A couple of years back I had to propel a sleeper delivery machine from Claydon to Bicester perimeter road crossing, that took an age as it runs on tiny jockey wheels so it was 3mph max, the propelling move being just short of 5 miles on a pretty much light falling gradient so the slow speed control on the 66 was less than useless!

 

Also did it with a kirow crane but that could go a bit faster with the addition of a man riding up front and a temporary headlight fitted

[tomparryharry]

I seem to remember that Llantrisant No1 railway was a propelled job, from Common Branch Junction to Creigau Quarry. I will however, rely on Mr. Rolley for this one!

 

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

I seem to remember that Llantrisant No1 railway was a propelled job, from Common Branch Junction to Creigau Quarry. I will however, rely on Mr. Rolley for this one!

 

Ian

 

It was, and quite an interesting experience when the rails into the quarrywere on the damp side as it was lumbered with rather mucky ground conditions.  Maximum 20 wagons and propelling prohibited during falling snow.

 

The direction officially authorised for propelling was Creigiau Quarry to Common Branch Jcn but as there was a reversal enroute it also meant that propelling was necessary into the quarry (which was a siding) and that was the dodgy bit - from Creigiau back to Common Branch Jcn was a doddle by comparison, especially with an EE Type 3 delivering the oomph.

[The Johnster]

Mike, you don't know what mucky ground conditions are until you've picked up a train at Aberthaw cement works on a 'soft' day.  Worst part was that, because the muck was basically cement dust mixed with mud, it would set solid on you if you weren't careful.  Slippery as &%$@ as well.  Fun watching the Hymek lift a few hundred tons of presflos up the gradient, though; the job somehow wasn't the same with 37s...

 

The other horror that was an Aberthaw Cement speciality was the opposite weather, a dry windy day, when you'd have to wrap a cloth over your face to breathe or see, and would end up looking like a ghost.  I liked the C96 Rhoose and Aberthaw cement, though; a day job and a bit of proper railway work for a change, back cab or not!  There was a propelling move on this job as well; we would bring the traffic we'd picked up at Rhoose marshalled at the front of the train, and leave that in the down platform road at Aberthaw station, Blue Anchor Signal Box, and run around to propel the incoming Aberthaw traffic on the down to Aberthaw West so the loco was the right end to make the shunt.  Aberthaw West was once a signal box but had been downgraded to a ground frame, but you felt the part as you threw levers in the old box, high up where you could see everything!

[br2975]

I seem to remember that Llantrisant No1 railway was a propelled job, from Common Branch Junction to Creigau Quarry. I will however, rely on Mr. Rolley for this one!

 

 

Sort of, yes.

 

The train had to be drawn from Common Branch Junction (CBJ) to Creigiau Quarry as the latter had a trailing connection and just a couple of sidings with no loop.

 

Loads were then drawn out of the quarry into the headshunt and propelled back to CBJ, which put the loco at the front end for the run down through Cross Inn & Mwyndy to Llantrisant Yard.

 

 ( I have often wondered, due to the track layout at CBJ in later years whether the empties were propelled from Llantrisant yard to CBJ as well ? )

 

This of course was after the other (eastern) end of the branch, from Creigiau Quarry to Waterhall Junction had closed in 1964.

 

Until that time the empty limestone hoppers were hauled from Radyr Yard past Waterhall Junction and then propelled onto the Llantrisant No.1 Railway and along it to the quarry.

.

The loads were then hauled back to Waterhall Junction and out onto the 'main' (todays City Line).

.

However, in later years, due to rationalisation of the pointwork at Waterhall Junction the loaded train would then propel, wrong line back to Radyr Quarry 'box and the safety of the yard.

.

The Radyr based working would pass the house (well separated by two large fields) and always seemed to be a Radyr 34xx 0-6-0PT

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Brian R

[br2975]

Johnster, just a quick break from doing the ironing !

.

The last 'nine fiver' I saw working was probably the very start of December, 1969, when the last handful were still at Canton and just over six months after the last ones were withdrawn.

.

It was memorable as it was directly under the footbridge, on the siding between the old milk depot and the Brickyard.

.

It was early evening, dark and bitterly cold and we stood over the exhaust to keep warm.

.

I never saw one working for BR again after that.

.

Right, back to the ironing and getting tea ready.

.

Brian R

.

 

Just checked, and the loco involved was D9555

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It had been withdrawn on 26/04/1969 or 03/05/1969 (according to which accounting system is used)

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It was on the depot on 29/11/1969 with D9509, D9519, D9521,D9526,D9535, and working as shed pilot on 19/12/1969 (although I didn't see it that day) and eventually left for NCB Backworth in March 1970.

.

Brian R

 

PS

I'm enjoying this thread, even if I wander OT from time to time.

[tomparryharry]

Sort of, yes.

 

The train had to be drawn from Common Branch Junction (CBJ) to Creigiau Quarry as the latter had a trailing connection and just a couple of sidings with no loop.

 

Loads were then drawn out of the quarry into the headshunt and propelled back to CBJ, which put the loco at the front end for the run down through Cross Inn & Mwyndy to Llantrisant Yard.

 

 ( I have often wondered, due to the track layout at CBJ in later years whether the empties were propelled from Llantrisant yard to CBJ as well ? )

 

This of course was after the other (eastern) end of the branch, from Creigiau Quarry to Waterhall Junction had closed in 1964.

 

Until that time the empty limestone hoppers were hauled from Radyr Yard past Waterhall Junction and then propelled onto the Llantrisant No.1 Railway and along it to the quarry.

.

The loads were then hauled back to Waterhall Junction and out onto the 'main' (todays City Line).

.

However, in later years, due to rationalisation of the pointwork at Waterhall Junction the loaded train would then propel, wrong line back to Radyr Quarry 'box and the safety of the yard.

.

The Radyr based working would pass the house (well separated by two large fields) and always seemed to be a Radyr 34xx 0-6-0PT

.

Brian R

I well remember seeing class EE type 3's running around at CBJ. This was done in between the return workings from Cwm colliery.

 

Ian

[MarcD]

Just found these photo which was the result of pushing iron ore and coke from Haverthwaite up the rising gradient to the Backbarrow Iron Works.

 

The incident was some time between 1923 and 1935. The loco pushing 5 loaded wagons lost traction and ran back into the goods yard. it then hit the vans, including a GPV, pushing them through the buffers, yard wall and on to the road. The road is what is now the A590 which is the main road through the south lakes. 

 

The accident did not stop the practice as it continued until 1968 when the iron works closed. The line to the iron works is now used as carriage storage and a head shunt for the loco shed on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway. 

 

The vans are an ex-NBR 10ton box and a ex-LNWR 6ton. I think the loco involved is LNWR or LYR 2-4-2T

 

Marc

 

 

[big jim]

The incident was some time between 1923 and 1935.

The date is on the bottom of the first picture

[clachnaharry]

I seem to recall that the last gasp of the Cattewater branch in Plymouth after the closure of the bitumen depot involved propelling wagons to the scrapyard. A Shark brakevan was kept in Tavistock junction yard for this purpose.

[The Stationmaster]

Just found these photo which was the result of pushing iron ore and coke from Haverthwaite up the rising gradient to the Backbarrow Iron Works.

 

The incident was some time between 1923 and 1935. The loco pushing 5 loaded wagons lost traction and ran back into the goods yard. it then hit the vans, including a GPV, pushing them through the buffers, yard wall and on to the road. The road is what is now the A590 which is the main road through the south lakes. 

 

The accident did not stop the practice as it continued until 1968 when the iron works closed. The line to the iron works is now used as carriage storage and a head shunt for the loco shed on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway. 

 

The vans are an ex-NBR 10ton box and a ex-LNWR 6ton. I think the loco involved is LNWR or LYR 2-4-2T

 

Marc

 

I bet the Driver's report made very interesting reading -

 

'Sir,

I have the honour to report that while propelling 5 wagons towards Backbarrow the wheels picked up and the brake was ineffective in holding the engine with the result that we ran away and came into a slight collision with some wagons in the goods yard,

Your Obdt servant, etc, etc.'

[avonside1563]

If you're talking pure industrial Stu then anything goes. There's a delightful tale in 'Dalmellington Ironworks - It's Engines and Men' of a rake of empties being propelled to one of the collieries and the coupling broke between the loco and the first wagon just as they crested a rise and started downhill towards the colliery yard a mile or so distant. The shunter who was on the loco clambered round to the front of the loco while the driver gave chase as the rake picked up speed down hill. Meanwhile the 'guard' was perched in the first wagon (no brakevans) happily puffing on his pipe unaware of the drama he was involved with as it unfolded around him. The shunter managed to hook the unbroken coupling on the wagon with his shunting pole and get it over the loco's drawhook and all came to rest as it should in the yard. The guard clambered out of his wagon still oblivious and walked down to the loco where the crew were congratulating themselves on averting a pile up and, pointing his pipe at them said "Nooh then Jimmy, yea were going awfa hard doon there!" (or something like that.. will have to dig out the book and have a read again, it's full of stories along those lines)

[Stubby47]

Again, thanks for all the contributions - this thread gets better and better.

 

My own story of a runaway train is somewhat different - firstly, I was not involved, only read it in a book, but it did happen on the old Newham branch in Truro.

 

Apparently the loco was leading, having turned off the main onto the line down to the dockside. Partway down, the loco began to lose control of the heavy train behind. The fireman jumped off and managed to apply the brakes on each of the wagons as they passed him, averting disaster.

It was only when I read the name of the fireman that I got really interested - there can't be many Courtney Berrimans around, even in Cornwall. It turns out the gent was a near neighbour of mine, someone I regularly saw when dog-walking and whom I had no idea he ever worked on the railway. 

 

Please, keep the anecdotes and examples coming.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, some of the bog railways in Ireland operate by propelling in one direction, and it can be impressively dangerous.

 

Bogs aren't flat, they start out as domed upwards, well above surrounding ground, and finish as bowl-like pits once worked out, so these railways can have steep gradients, and if a coupling parts ........

 

A rake of twenty cubic metre bogie wagons, each weighing nearly twenty tons, attains "escape velocity" very quickly, and derails big time on any curves ...... the bogies fly off and go airborne!

[The Johnster]

Sort of, yes.

 

The train had to be drawn from Common Branch Junction (CBJ) to Creigiau Quarry as the latter had a trailing connection and just a couple of sidings with no loop.

 

Loads were then drawn out of the quarry into the headshunt and propelled back to CBJ, which put the loco at the front end for the run down through Cross Inn & Mwyndy to Llantrisant Yard.

 

 ( I have often wondered, due to the track layout at CBJ in later years whether the empties were propelled from Llantrisant yard to CBJ as well ? )

 

This of course was after the other (eastern) end of the branch, from Creigiau Quarry to Waterhall Junction had closed in 1964.

 

Until that time the empty limestone hoppers were hauled from Radyr Yard past Waterhall Junction and then propelled onto the Llantrisant No.1 Railway and along it to the quarry.

.

The loads were then hauled back to Waterhall Junction and out onto the 'main' (todays City Line).

.

However, in later years, due to rationalisation of the pointwork at Waterhall Junction the loaded train would then propel, wrong line back to Radyr Quarry 'box and the safety of the yard.

.

The Radyr based working would pass the house (well separated by two large fields) and always seemed to be a Radyr 34xx 0-6-0PT

.

Brian R

 

 

Propelling wrong road from Waterhall to Radyr Quarry definitely counts as pushing loose coupled wagons downhill, though there was a brake van leading!  Interesting stuff, Brian, as is the D95xx info.  Our mutual acquaintance Nigel R once told me he worked with one in very late '69 on a trip to recover stored parcels vans from the Riverside Branch, which was also semi-derelict by then.

[The Johnster]

I bet the Driver's report made very interesting reading -

 

'Sir,

I have the honour to report that while propelling 5 wagons towards Backbarrow the wheels picked up and the brake was ineffective in holding the engine with the result that we ran away and came into a slight collision with some wagons in the goods yard,

Your Obdt servant, etc, etc.'

 

 

I once 'had the honour' of reporting that I had sent a train forward and the loco had 'come into slight contact with the stop block, destroying it and moving the piece of track it was attached to back sufficiently to leave a gap stranding the leading bogie of loco'.  There were mitigating circumstances and no Form 1, but I had a proper (and deserved) bollocking.  Still rather proud of the syntax, though...  Pengam Freightliner Terminal headshunt, about 1974.

 

I was involved in a few incidents there, not all my fault, and came to be regareded as a bit of a Jonah by the supervisor...

[The Johnster]

I think we need to define 'propelling movement on a non-passenger branch line', or anyway define 'non passenger branch line'.  Obviously propelling is a locomotive pushing a train, but this is not the same as setting one back in a shunting movement, some of which were relatively long distance affairs over several hundred yards, but within station limits.  I would understand the term 'non passenger branch line' to be one under the control of signal boxes, with block sections between them, or between signals if MAS was involved.  I suspect many of the examples quoted took place on branches which were not signalled in any way and were worked as 'long sidings', with the train locked in, restricted to 15mph, and controlled by hand signals from whoever was in charge of the movement, i.e. not a running line, passenger or not.

 

A 'non passenger branch line' may be signalled as if it was a passenger line, with full block regulations in place and able to take a diverted or special passenger working as a matter of course, even if it never does, or it may possibly have been built as a freight only route with permissive block regulations (or reduced to that status after the withdrawal of passenger services).  Permissive block is rarely modelled, though quite common,  Speed is restricted to 15mph, and a signal may be cleared while a train is already occupying the section it protects; drivers are instructed to be aware of this and able to stop in the distance that they can clearly see ahead.  Any number of trains may occupy a section, and a queue of them waiting their turns to enter some steelworks or yard was a common occurrence.  No distant signals are needed and the guard does not need to protect his train if it is stopped in the section; the driver of the next one already knows he is likely to be there, nor is there need to carry out Rule 55.  There is also no requirement on such routes for facing point locks, and if they are used for diverted passenger traffic facing points must be spiked and clipped in position and padlocked.  

 

Another feature of permissive block is the use fo signals controlling diverging routes mounted on a single post one above each other, rather than the splitting bracket signals used elsewhere.  They are read 'top to bottom, left to right, so, if you were approaching a junction at which you could be routed to the left or the right of your line, there would be 3 signal boards mounted above each other on the post; the top board would indicate the left branch, the middle one straight ahead, and the bottom one to the right hand branch.  Obviously, extreme caution and 5mph running is required during fog or falling snow.

 

Some 'long sidings' were very long indeed; IIRC the Carmarthen-Felin Fach creamery was one, over 20 miles of it through the rural fastnesses of Darkest Dyfed, though AFIAK they did not propel on it.  It was the stub of the former Carmarthen-Aberystwyth main line.  Any propelling on a siding of this sort does not count, IMHO, as propelling in the sense the OP wants to know about, it is just a shunting movement that goes a long way.  A long siding must be accessed by points under the control of a signalman (a ground frame counts as he has to release it) so that the train can be locked in and cannot interfere with other traffic until it returns to the box or ground frame where there is a phone. and requests exit.

 

My advice to anyone wanting to propel freight trains on a model railway is to go ahead and do it unless it is downhill, and invent a local instruction in your imaginary Sectional Appendix to cover it, unless you are modelling an actual location at a set time period, in which case you must work it as the real railway did/does!