DCC Controllers

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if anyone could help me please?

 

I currently have a Bachmann EZ Dynamis DCC Controller. I recently found out that this controller can only have 40 locos programmed to it at once. If you want to programme more locos you have to delete some of the locos that you already have programmed.

 

Does anyone know if their are any DCC Controllers that can have more than 40 locos programmed to them at once? If so how many locos can you have programmed at once?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Danny.

[johnb]

I'm an NCE user and all I do with that is to press <select loco> followed by the <loco id no> (anything up to 9999) followed by <enter> and I have control of that loco. If I want another loco I simply follow that sequence again. The NCE Powercab does retain the last six in a stack, but essentially all that does is to take in the new number and drop the oldest one off the stack. I can recall those from the stack (I don't usually bother) but that does not stop me entering another loco at any time.

 

The NCE Powercab is the entry level unit from NCE so I can't speak for the full monty of the Procab.

 

I run Whitecross Street at exhibitions with the Powercab, mainly SR EMUs with 2 digit ids. I suppose I use up to 12 to 14 units or locos in total from my collection and simply punch in the id number required using <select loco> <id no> <enter>. The Powercab does NOT hold a roster, so there is no limit. I can enter any loco number that I need without worrying whether I will exceed a limit (because there isn't one) and need to clear out anything.

 

It's simply that the NCE system internals are configured differently and do not hold a fixed list.

 

John

[Nigelcliffe]

The majority of systems don't have an internal register of locos, so the limit to the number which can be addressed is the DCC address space, of around 10,000 different addresses.  (That's different to "stack size" which is the number which can simultaneously move, usually stack size isn't a real limit as you need more operators and track to hit the stack size limit).

 

A smaller number of systems have internal records of locos (like the Dynamis), but most of those have a much larger size than the 40 in the Dynamis.   For example, the ESU ECoS is over 16,000.  

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

The Dynamis is one of only a couple of DCC systems, that requires locos to be stored in a roster, or library in order to run them (i.e. the only way to run locos).

Most other systems either have no library storage, other than a temporary loco stack (a different thing altogether), or allow both options (direct selection by loco address, or selection from a roster/library).

 

As a Dynamis user, your options are limited if you wish to continue with this system.

Either accept the 40 loco limit and put up with the faff of deleting and adding locos whenever you need to....

....or do what some people have reported doing to get around the 40 loco limit, by adding an extra handset and storing another 40 loco addresses on that (assuming this is an original Dynamis and not the current Ultima version?).

That work around is not ideal however, as multi-handset use on the original Dynamis is designed around adding the ProBox, where the loco library is sync'ed and shared with all other handsets assigned to that individual system.

Using multiple handsets without the ProBox can lead to system confusion in certain circumstances. However some people have reported using this method in the past and say it worked for them.

 

Alternatives...

 

There are actually quite a number of DCC systems that allow locos and their individual settings to be stored in a library (like the Dynamis), but still allow any loco address to be selected, whether the loco is stored or not, just by typing in the 2 or 4 digit address.

 

Examples include...

Roco MultiMaus

Roco Z21 & z21

ESU ECoS

ESU Navigator (same system as the Dynamis, now discontinued)

Sig-na Trak Ace 2

Viessmann Commander

Viessmann Commander 2

Piko SmartControl

Hornby Elite

Uhlenbrock Daisy 2

Uhlenbrock Intellibox 2

Marklin CS2

Zimo MX10+MX32

CT Electronic ZF5/HR3

TAMS EasyControl

Lenz system (feature coming soon.....that's a Lenz "soon")

 

Most of those listed above are on the expensive side and some are either not, or not widely available in the UK.

 

The cheapest on the list is the MultiMaus, that can be obtained new (split from train sets) for about £70 to £90).

It has a library limit of 64, but any loco address can be used instead.

 

The DCC systems that don't have a loco library are mainly those from Digitrax, NCE and MRC/Gaugemaster, ZTC......and the Hornby Select.

 

 

.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[Dagworth]

Lenz limit is around 120

Digikeijs is 117 (?)

 

All systems have some sort of physical limit of how many locos they can send data to at the same time. 

 

The limitation is often not visible as locos do drop off the bottom of the stack in time with more basic systems but with advanced systems that actually remember details such as name, functions etc. in a library then yes the limit will become obvious once it is reached and locos will need to be deleted. 

 

Andi

[Phil Bullock]

What is being described is the natural evolutionary process in the OPs Dcc journey... Start with a basic system, upgrade to intermediate then realise limitations and think about move to high end system. The drivers may be slightly different for different users but looking at numerous posts on here over the years there us a common journey.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[shibushe]

I noticed that Ron Ron did not mention from his long list of Command Stations The ZTC 511/611.

I have both, one of witch is a slave.

For my penny worth this system can store in its Command roster 128 Locos.

Only 16 of these can be run at the same time.

There are options with this system as to how to Recall, Add, or Remove Locos from the roster.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I noticed that Ron Ron did not mention from his long list of Command Stations The ZTC 511/611....

....this system can store in its Command roster 128 Locos....

 

 

I left the ZTC system(s) off the list for a good reason.

The Roster feature on the ZTC system is not quite the same as the library features on the systems I have listed above.

 

I notice that the ZTC 611 can now have a roster of up to 250 locos, but the parameters that are stored for each loco in the roster are limited and do not include such items as loco names, accessory function setting for each individual loco (including latching or unlatching settings on each function - which is not available on the ZTC system).

 

The range of what details and parameters are stored in loco libraries varies. For example, some of the more expensive systems I listed, include graphical user interfaces or use larger display screens. This allows those systems to provide a facility for photos or icons to be used to aid identifying the locos stored in the library.

 

 

.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Ron Ron Ron

[Crosland]

All systems have some sort of physical limit of how many locos they can send data to at the same time. 

 

It's the same for every system and is limited by the DCC bit rate.

 

If you wanted to control all possible 10,000+ locos simultaneously they would be very sluggish in responding.

 

At best, you can address a few 100 locos per second.

[shibushe]

I am not going to get into an argument over the pros and cons of the ZTC System, just to say I like it, it does all the things I need to run my railway.,

I know there are those out there who not touch it with a bargepole, but then I could say the same thing for some of the others

I know the old 511 had its problems. The 611 is much improved.

I like it, would not change it, so there.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I am not going to get into an argument over the pros and cons of the ZTC System......

Nobody is arguing anything, so I'm not sure where your comment is coming from.

You pointed out, or asked why I hadn't included the 511/611 in my list and I explained why I thought they didn't fit in with the ones listed.

I'll include it with the others that don't fit in with the list.

 

....just to say I like it, it does all the things I need to run my railway.....,

.....I like it, would not change it, so there.

Great. I'm pleased you're happy with it.

 

 

.

[Oldddudders]

The thread is - perhaps inadvertantly - homing in on the really great advantage of DCC systems. There are multiple ways to skin the DCC cat, and that is why looking at the whole system market is vital to ensuring you get the best system to suit your budget.

 

If you feel a built-in roster is a key feature for you, then a list of compliant systems, as seems to have been offered above, is a good start. Similarly the design of the interface, i.e. buttons, wheels, touch-screen, hand-held, radio, infra-red, smartphone etc is critical to your comfort in use, and hence enjoyment of the whole layout.

 

But they all have one common feature, and that is that however many locos can be addressed by the system, each moving loco needs to be monitored either by an operator or a computer system capable of stopping and starting it appropriately. Specifications that quote a hundred or more locos addressable at once really are pretty meaningless to the newcomer, if not downright misleading.

[shibushe]

OK Ron maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. As you well know when questions are asked on this forum, What's Best, reply's are nearly always what the member prefers.

I wont go on, The Old Dudders summed it up nicely.

Bottle of Red would be nice, preferably from the bottom field right hand corner.

[Dagworth]

It's the same for every system and is limited by the DCC bit rate.

 

If you wanted to control all possible 10,000+ locos simultaneously they would be very sluggish in responding.

 

At best, you can address a few 100 locos per second.

The limit is not always what can be achieved within the bit rate, many systems do not have the processing power to be able to handle addressing all that many locos at once, an EZcommand unit couldn't for example. That was what I meant by my post.

 

Andi

Edited April 4, 2017 by Dagworth

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Thank you very much for all of the replies. I really appreciate it.

 

I am considering buying the NCE DCC Controller that has been mentioned in the first comment.

 

It sounds good that their is no limit as to how many locos it can have programmed to it at once.

 

Would anyone be able to answer a few questions regarding the NCE DCC Controller?  

 

With this controller am I right in thinking that by a stack of six it means it holds the last six locos that have been selected?

 

So does this mean that if the loco you would like to run isn't in the six in the stack that you just type the number/loco address in?

 

So just to confirm that I can programme/have programmed an unlimited number of locos to the NCE DCC Controller?

 

How many locos can be run in a consist/convoy?

 

How many consists can I have at once?

 

Is the product code for the NCE DCC Controller 524-042?

 

How many locos can I run at once using the NCE DCC Controller?

 

Thank you very much for all of the replies.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

Edited April 4, 2017 by DRS Crewe On A Mission

[johnb]

With this controller am I right in thinking that by a stack of six it means it holds the last six locos that have been selected? Yes

 

So does this mean that if the loco you would like to run isn't in the six in the stack that you just type the number/loco address in? Yes

 

So just to confirm that I can programme/have programmed an unlimited number of locos to the NCE DCC Controller? Just keep putting numbers in, only the last six will be remembered

 

How many locos can be run in a consist/convoy? No restriction other than the current limit of the Powercab. Max is 2AMP but that is really pushing it probably 1.5 amp is the top limit

 

How many consists can I have at once? Limited by the power available but the Powercab can allocate consist addresses from 112 to 127

 

Is the product code for the NCE DCC Controller 524-042? Don't know, but NCE produce two controllers the entry level Powercab and the full featured Procab. You can start with the Powercab and then upgrade to the Procab. The Powercab then becomes a second control unit for use with the Procab setup. Have a look at the NCE website (www.ncedcc.com) it will explain all this in better detail.

 

How many locos can I run at once using the NCE DCC Controller? No restriction other than the current limit of the Powercab. Max is 2AMP but that is really really pushing it, probably a bit less than 1.5 amp is the practical limit. This has been discussed on here somewhere at length.

 

Just to be clear I use the Powercab with it's 2amp limit NOT the higher rated Procab and have never come close to that limit with modern motors. But I have small end-to-end layouts. I've rarely used consists, but then only with a couple of locos. I've taken some of the answers above from the Powercab manual. I also have a slave controller, the CAB04. I've usually run no more than 4 modern locos at once using the Powercab and the slave, a consisted pair and two Bachmann EMUs coupled together both with the same id. The current draw does not get anywhere near 1amp

 

Where are you based? I've several shows coming up between now and January and given notice I'd be willing to give you a demo.

 

HTH

John

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just to add to John's post above....

 

 

....It sounds good that their is no limit as to how many locos it can have programmed to it at once.

 

.....So just to confirm that I can programme/have programmed an unlimited number of locos to the NCE DCC Controller?

 

 

Just to be clear, you cannot "programme" any locos to the NCE system in the same way that you can in a systems that use a library or loco store/memory (e.g. your current Dynamis, or any on the list I provided earlier).

 

The difference is that with the NCE system, you can select any loco address (at any time) and simply run the loco.

Only the last 6 locos selected are kept in the recall stack and and any new ones replace a loco already in that stack.

None are stored in a loco library, where you keep details of the loco and various settings or parameters.

 

All systems that do have a loco library, other than the Dynamis, also allow this; as do all systems that don't have a library.

 

 

 

 

.....NCE produce two controllers the entry level Powercab and the full featured Procab.

You can start with the Powercab and then upgrade to the Procab. The Powercab then becomes a second control unit for use with the Procab setup. Have a look at the NCE website (www.ncedcc.com) it will explain all this in better detail.

 

.....Just to be clear I use the Powercab with it's 2amp limit NOT the higher rated Procab ...

 

 

On a pedantic note....

John, the PowerCab and ProCab are not "controllers".

The PowerCab is a DCC system and the ProCab is just a handset (i.e. cab or throttle) that can be used with either the full NCE PowerPro system, or with the PowerCab starter system.

You can't "upgrade to a ProCab", but you can add one to a PowerCab set-up.

You can upgrade the PowerCab with the addition of a SmartBooster, or by going the whole way and upgrading to the full NCE system...i.e. the PowerPro.

 

I think when you mention the ProCab, you mean to say the PowerPro, which is the main (and higher rated) NCE system.

 

Chhers

 

Ron

 

 

 

.

[Neils WRX]

I use a Z21 and you can store different "layouts" in the App, so I use one controller for 4 different collections, Balkan, Belgian, Danish and Czech.

Not found a limit yet must have circa 100 locos on it especially when you include locos set to work on multiple.

[johnb]

Thanks Ron for those clarifications I was writing that quite late last night!!

John

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Thank you all for all of the replies and help. I really appreciate it.

 

With the NCE DCC Controller does my layout have to be wired? At the moment my layout isn't wired and I just plug two wires/connectors into a piece of track which is fitted to the layout.

 

Will I just get the two wires/connectors with the NCE Controller to plug into the track like what I have with the Dynamis? Meaning that I can buy and use the NCE Controller without my layout been wired?

 

Also my layout is OO Gauge. Is the NCE Controller suitable to operate OO Gauge locos and layouts?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[johnb]

Thank you all for all of the replies and help. I really appreciate it.

 

With the NCE DCC Controller does my layout have to be wired? At the moment my layout isn't wired and I just plug two wires/connectors into a piece of track which is fitted to the layout.

 

Will I just get the two wires/connectors with the NCE Controller to plug into the track like what I have with the Dynamis? Meaning that I can buy and use the NCE Controller without my layout been wired?

 

Also my layout is OO Gauge. Is the NCE Controller suitable to operate OO Gauge locos and layouts?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

I am not familiar with what is supplied with the Dynamis

 

The NCE system is supplied with a small plug to connect to the output of NCE power board you need to wire this plug to a Hornby type track connector.

 

The NCE will certainly operate OO layouts and locos.

 

You really do need to get along to a shop where they are familiar with DCC products or to an exhibition where one of the DCC specialist suppliers is present. You could get along to a local club where they use DCC.

 

The NCE Powercab system as supplied comprises the handset with the screen, buttons and a speed control handwheel. A 'power board' to which the handset is wired (wire with plugs supplied). A plug in transformer, with wired plug to connect to the 'power board'. It is not all that easy to describe in words, you really do need to see it for yourself. So please study the NCE website and also see the thing for real. It will answer many of your questions.

 

John

Edited April 5, 2017 by johnb

[Pete the Elaner]

Hi,

 

It sounds like you've read about & got carried away with talk of bus & droppers.

2 wires will work for a small layout for any DCC system.

 

Put simply, you need a clean, low-resistance connection to all parts of the layout.

Nickel silver is not the best conductor. It is used for rails for a combination of its appearance, cost & resistance to oxidation. Expecting current to pass along many yards of rail & across several joins with paint & glue trying to separate them is when you may experience problems.

Ensuring all connections are clean & low-resistance is also good practice for DC but, instead or erratic control, you would see the problem as a drop in speed.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Thank you very much for all of the help and replies. I really appreciate it.

 

I have just ordered the NCE Powercab DCC Controller from Hattons. It should be here by tomorrow or Saturday.

 

Thank you very much for all of the help.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if anyone could help me please?

 

The NCE Powercab arrived on Friday afternoon and I have plugged the controller in, set it up and programmed all of my locos to it.

 

I have been running locos individually but I am now wanting to make advanced consists. I have read the instruction booklet and I have tried programming for advanced conists several times but to no avail.

 

Please could anyone tell me the basic steps of how to set up and add locos to an advanced consist?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[Brian]

First question has to be ... Do the decoders in the locos support Advanced Consisting? Not all do.  What make and model are they?