Smart Meter = smart move?

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

 

I'm sure you're aware that on a sunny day, solar panels may drive your old rotary meter backwards, thus you get payment for generation, export, plus a bill reduction.  Smart meters don't go backwards.  Sure, you can sign up for an export tariff at ?9p/kw but it compares somewhat unfavourably to the the 34p reduction i get.

 

Smart meters were never for the benefit of us.  If they were, why are they free?

 

 

 

 

Interesting but do all non smart meters do this ? I assume the reading part of the meter system is a standard meter and as has been reported they are changed as they get old. If this was a common happening I would assume the network is well aware

 

Most export tariffs are seemingly capped to 5.5p per kwh by all of the big players except Octopus who pay 15p per kwh. I don't expect the retail rate but when the retail rate rises so much so should the export rate

 

Smart meters are not free, we ALL pay for them, as I have been saying the benefits still outweigh the cons, good to see the barrel is being scraped for reasons

 

None of these negative reasons actually address the fact that we need to ween ourselves off fossil fuel, which is running out. If nothing else the display unit gives you a reading of what you are using, far better than finding out you are hundreds of £'s in debt 12 months down the line, realising early plus no estimated bills means you can react very much earlier. Something dumb meters cannot do

[Ouroborus]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

Interesting but do all non smart meters do this ? I assume the reading part of the meter system is a standard meter and as has been reported they are changed as they get old. If this was a common happening I would assume the network is well aware

 

Most export tariffs are seemingly capped to 5.5p per kwh by all of the big players except Octopus who pay 15p per kwh. I don't expect the retail rate but when the retail rate rises so much so should the export rate

 

Smart meters are not free, we ALL pay for them, as I have been saying the benefits still outweigh the cons, good to see the barrel is being scraped for reasons

 

None of these negative reasons actually address the fact that we need to ween ourselves off fossil fuel, which is running out. If nothing else the display unit gives you a reading of what you are using, far better than finding out you are hundreds of £'s in debt 12 months down the line, realising early plus no estimated bills means you can react very much earlier. Something dumb meters cannot do

 

I certainly agree that reducing the use of fossil fuels isn't a bad thing, but I'm not so sure how this relates to smart meters.  They are free in the sense that you choosing to have one doesn't cost you to have it fitted.  

 

Shell, the thieves who supply me with energy nag me once a month to read the meter.  When i read the meter and submit this to the portal, the variation in direct debit is curious.   When my old supplier went bust, Shell automatically varies my dd upwards from £150 per month to £350.  In two hits.  But when i logged onto the portal, i could see that i was hundreds of £ in credit, so i manually reduced the dd - they didn't reduce it automatically!  Shell set a limit on how much you can reduce it by, so twelve months into this fiasco, I'm still £700 in credit.   My point is this, had i left everything to Shell, they'd have even more of my money.  That i have a meter that requires a reading means i get a reminder to log in and have another go at bringing down my direct debit.   I'm glad you like your meter, but the only benefit it seems to have over mine is that i have to go outside and look at mine to see what im using.  You can view your usage from another piece of tech.  Otherwise, i see no benefit - its just passing control to a third party.

 

The business of energy suppliers using customer credits to boost their profitability has recently been covered.  Whilst some ring fence it, others use it as working capital.  They get an interest free loan from me and at time of rising interest rates, benefit from the money in their account whereas it should be in mine.   To me, the whole energy market seems to overdue a substantial overhaul.   We're not dealing with shower gel, we're dealing with peoples ability to keep warm.

 

Regards your question about are the industry aware of rotary meters going backwards.  I'm sure they are, there was an article in Which? magazine not too long ago, the general advice, reading between the lines, was that it might be something not to raise, less it give the electricity supplier a reason to declare your meter faulty.  Its not faulty, in fact its running well, correctly measuring the flow.   You'll see other comments in this thread about this.  I'm not saying that everyday the meter furiously spins backwards, but if its sunny and the kids are off their tech AND you're watching the meter, you'll see it go the other way and then switch back to its normal way as a washing machine clicks on.

 

All said and done, I'm sure the days of this are numbered and when i had our pv system upgraded this year, I went with a battery in anticipation of the day coming when smart meters become mandated/forced.  I'm wondering what the tipping point will be that will see the government do this.   I would have bet on a power cut enabling them to flex their hand and allow them to say that "we have to do this to protect our supply", but the mild winter put paid to this, so maybe it'll be EV cars and the demand they put on the grid being the reason - differential pricing.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Ouroborus

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

I certainly agree that reducing the use of fossil fuels isn't a bad thing, but I'm not so sure how this relates to smart meters.  They are free in the sense that you choosing to have one doesn't cost you to have it fitted.  

 

Shell, the thieves who supply me with energy nag me once a month to read the meter.  When i read the meter and submit this to the portal, the variation in direct debit is curious.   When my old supplier went bust, Shell automatically varies my dd upwards from £150 per month to £350.  In two hits.  But when i logged onto the portal, i could see that i was hundreds of £ in credit, so i manually reduced the dd.  Shell set a limit on how much you can reduce it by, so twelve months into this fiasco, I'm still £700 in credit.   My point is this, had i left everything to Shell, they'd have even more of my money.  That i have a meter that requires a reading means i get a reminder to log in and have another go at bringing down my direct debit.   I'm glad you like your meter, but the only benefit it seems to have over mine is that i have to go outside and look at mine to see what im using.  You can view your usage from another piece of tech.  Otherwise, i see no benefit - its just passing control to a third party.

 

The business of energy suppliers using customer credits to boost their profitability has recently been covered.  Whilst some ring fence it, others use it as working capital.  They get an interest free loan from me and at time of rising interest rates, benefit from the money in their account whereas it should be in mine.   To me, the whole energy market seems to overdue a substantial overhaul.   We're not dealing with shower gel, we're dealing with peoples ability to keep warm.

 

Regards your question about are the industry aware of rotary meters going backwards.  I'm sure they are, there was an article in Which? magazine not too long ago, the general advice, reading between the lines, was that it might be something not to raise, less it give the electricity supplier a reason to declare your meter faulty.  Its not faulty, in fact its running well, correctly measuring the flow.   You'll see other comments in this thread about this.  I'm not saying that everyday the meter furiously spins backwards, but if its sunny and the kids are off their tech AND you're watching the meter, you'll see it go the other way and then switch back to its normal way as a washing machine clicks on.

 

All said and done, I'm sure the days of this are numbered and when i had our pv system upgraded this year, I went with a battery in anticipation of the day coming when smart meters become mandated/forced.  I'm wondering what the tipping point will be that will see the government do this.   I would have bet on a power cut enabling them to flex their hand and allow them to say that "we have to do this to protect our supply", but the mild winter put paid to this, so maybe it'll be EV cars and the demand they put on the grid being the reason - differential pricing.

 

 

Since the cost of energy has been climbing over the past 2 years and going into overdrive last year far more people are aware of the cost of fuel, and the way the industry sets prices. The first part  has come in play with the rates being set every 3 months from every 6 months

 

Smart meters make data available the following day, whether someone takes advantage of this is another thing.  For me I soon got fed up checking the display unit. But it was the catalyst for me to take action. I still infrequently look at the screen just to see how the day is progressing, if only to remind myself to turn light off when the room is not in use.

 

My in laws moved house a couple of years ago, their house has an alarm system. Its useless because they don't use it. The fact is once it has a service it could give them an added level of protection. Our own property had one when we bought it and now we use it all the time. For us its peace of mind.

 

As well as solar panels we have a smart heating system, our thermostat developed a fault and it was cheaper buying a Tado unit and fitting it ourselves, than paying British Gas to fit a dumb one and waiting 2 weeks for them to come (the Tado unit arrived in 2 days) right from the start it saved me money and had the heating back on much faster. At the time we both worked shift work so we had the heating on when we needed it and off when we did not. There are lots of other energy and time saving features, but perhaps its digressing, only to say I think its smart to use smart devices    

[Ouroborus]

Just on your last point, "its smart to use smart devices".

 

I have Hue led bulbs installed throughout my house.  They are "smart" in the sense i can remotely control them.  But they're on all the time regardless of illumination, a constant user of electricity.  The same 'dumb' led would use less energy.   

 

But i can switch my smart bulbs on and off from bed, i don't need to get up and press a switch to manually turn them on and off.  They also cost me a fortune to install.

 

Is this "smart"?  Or is it a bulb for lazy people?   Now when you think about smart meters ...

 

Like you, i like tech, but lets not pretend that all of this is saving money, much of it are expensive labour saving devices.

[Jonboy]

Having moved into a house with them fitted over the summer I have found one frustrating peculiarity, on the phone when registering the supplier asked if I wanted them to read half-hourly, daily or monthly. 
 

I said monthly as on a monthly billing cycle assuming they would read and then bill based on the reading...

 

They have set the reading date 2 days after their billing date, so they nag me for a reading, then estimate up to 23:59 on the billing date (typical estimate between my reading and this time point is around double the average use over the month if I calculate by day or hour) and then two days later take a reading…

 

They also don’t provide a mechanism to override their estimate after the bill has been raised to pay an actual reading.

 

If I wanted to amend the timeframe they see readings to daily, I would need to phone them, which typically means an hour on hold at the moment…listening to suggestions I visit the website for lots of account management tools….

Edited January 7, 2023 by Jonboy

[Jonboy]

Just now, Ouroborus said:

Just on your last point, "its smart to use smart devices".

 

I have Hue led bulbs installed throughout my house.  They are "smart" in the sense i can remotely control them.  But they're on all the time regardless of illumination, a constant user of electricity.  The same 'dumb' led would use less energy.   

 

But i can switch my smart bulbs on and off from bed, i don't need to get up and press a switch to manually turn them on and off.  They also cost me a fortune to install.

 

Is this "smart"?  Or is it a bulb for lazy people?   Now when you think about smart meters ...

 

Like you, i like tech, but lets not pretend that all of this is saving money, much of it are expensive labour saving devices.

Having watched the sister in law turn the lights on whilst breastfeeding a few weeks back I am becoming more sympathetic towards them…

[Reorte]

32 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

Just on your last point, "its smart to use smart devices".

 

I have Hue led bulbs installed throughout my house.  They are "smart" in the sense i can remotely control them.  But they're on all the time regardless of illumination, a constant user of electricity.  The same 'dumb' led would use less energy.   

 

But i can switch my smart bulbs on and off from bed, i don't need to get up and press a switch to manually turn them on and off.  They also cost me a fortune to install.

 

Is this "smart"?  Or is it a bulb for lazy people?   Now when you think about smart meters ...

 

Like you, i like tech, but lets not pretend that all of this is saving money, much of it are expensive labour saving devices.

Quite. "Lazy" seems to be the word a lot of the time, a great deal of it appears to be about nothing more than doing away with extremely trivial tasks. I have no "smart" devices whatsoever because they don't do anything I want or need.

 

I like and loathe tech (assuming we're limiting this to digital devices, and not everything since the invention of the lever and wheel). I like it when it can be used to do amazing things that are simply impossible without it (e.g. impressive space missions), be the cutting edge of science, and anything that helps with medical progress is always good, and I like it for entertainment purposes. That's about it. It just usually an solution looking for a problem in day to day life though.

[black and decker boy]

I have a friend who invested in Alexa bulbs. I’m not convinced of any benefits over the old digital solution (finger on switch). The fact they are always on and always connected wifi suggested to me they always consume energy

 

in our house, we had 21 down light spots across 3 rooms. These originally had 50w halogen bulbs. That equates to just over 1kwh of energy when all on (quite often in winter). We swapped 6 for lower energy 35w versions but the wife wasn’t keen as not as bright. This was just under 1kwh total consumption LED drop in bulbs didn’t work with the system.

 

Last year when refitting  our kitchen, we came across sealed LED units which would be a simple replacement of our originals and remove the transformers etc too. IIRC they were around 12w and just as bright as the 50w halogens had been. We swapped all 21 and based on 2021 electricity prices, had a payback period of 6 years. We think, with all the rises since, we’ve probably paid them off now. They save us 3 to 4 KWh every day.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by black and decker boy
Typo

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

I have a friend who invested in Alexa bulbs. I’m not convinced of any benefits over the old digital solution (finger on switch). The fact they are always on and always connected wifi suggested to me they always consume energy

 

in our house, we had 21 down light spots across 3 rooms. These originally had 50w halogen bulbs. That equates to just over 1kwh of energy when all on (quite often in winter). We swapped 6 for lower energy 35w versions but the wife wasn’t keen as not as bright. This was just under 1kwh total consumption LED drop in bulbs didn’t work with the system.

 

Last year when refitting  our kitchen, we came across sealed LED units which would be a simple replacement of our originals and remove the transformers etc too. IIRC they were around 12w and just as bright as the 50w halogens had been. We swapped all 21 and based on 2021 electricity prices, had a payback period of 6 years. We think, with all the rises since, we’ve probably paid them off now. They save us 3 to 4 KWh every day.

 

 

 

I think the latest versions of LED bulbs are much better in light production, providing you buy the correct ones. Much better than the earlier low energy bulbs

 

As you say, now energy is so expensive low energy pay for themselves and long gone are the days when we thought they give out too little light

[Guest]

3 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

I have a friend who invested in Alexa bulbs. I’m not convinced of any benefits over the old digital solution (finger on switch). The fact they are always on and always connected wifi suggested to me they always consume energy

 

We have some Ikea Tradfi bulbs. They're pretty good. You can use a hub to connect to Alexa etc but they will also work standalone connected to a battery remote switch you can place wherever you like. The switch does dimming  and can change the colour temperature of the bulbs. The bulbs connect over Zigbee rather than wifi so consumption is minimal.

We also have some table lamps connected to a smart four-way which can switch the outputs via Alexa. That's handy because the switches on the lamps are not placed anywhere handy.

 

[john new]

I am not a thicko by any means but the last few posts on bulb types have left me baffled. LED I understand but the other types.....? 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

27 minutes ago, john new said:

I am not a thicko by any means but the last few posts on bulb types have left me baffled. LED I understand but the other types.....? 

The Alexa bulbs are ones you can turn on and of by talking too them or using a smart phone....

The useful bit of the display off a smart meter is the energy used in watts,lets you know whats electrically hungry,its set to 500 watts or .5kw before going red,anything that heats ramps up your bills.

Edited January 7, 2023 by ERIC ALLTORQUE

[APOLLO]

Talking to light bulbs ?

 

What a society we are becoming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[SHMD]

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Talking to light bulbs ?

 

What a society we are becoming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

 

Just wait until they are intelligent enough and can answer back after every use...

 

 

"Based on your recent light switch experience, how would you rate us?"

"Would you recommend us to others?"

"On a scale of 1 to 5, rate how this interaction left you feeling empowered?"

 

 

....dreading the day...

Kev.

 

[black and decker boy]

13 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Talking to light bulbs ?

 

What a society we are becoming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

Not just light bulbs. You can ask Alexa to control most electronic devices, your heating, your lights, your TV / Radio.

 

 

I don’t see the need myself but there are plenty that seem to like it.

[APOLLO]

15 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Not just light bulbs. You can ask Alexa to control most electronic devices, your heating, your lights, your TV / Radio.

 

 

I don’t see the need myself but there are plenty that seem to like it.

 

It has its uses i think, especially for older and disabled etc. 

 

A friend has an Alexa, perhaps I'm old fashioned but, well simply, not for me.

 

Technological overload these days !!

 

Brit15

[BernardTPM]

Talking to light bulbs?

It's all too Sirius Cybernetics...

Fetch me my axe.

[4630]

17 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Talking to light bulbs?

It's all too Sirius Cybernetics...

Fetch me my axe.

 

It's not Sirius Cybernetics we need to worry about; It's the HAL9000 that lurks at the heart of everyones mobile and tablet devices.

 

"I'm sorry Dave.  I'm afraid I can't do that".

 

appropriate clip from 2001: A Space Odyssey

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by 4630

[BMS]

My old meter did the reverse movement when solar energy supporting the uk power grid.

I was advised by Which and Internet  that this use is illegal and failure to report it is likely to lead to a recalculated bill and penalties when detected. 

(However the new meter was mis-wired on installation and took out the solar safety device - ultimately replaced and the solar firm (ikea) got the finances sorted to my satisfaction.)

 

[BernardTPM]

21 minutes ago, 4630 said:

It's not Sirius Cybernetics we need to worry about; It's the HAL9000 that lurks at the heart of everyones mobile and tablet devices.

Oh good. Two things I don't have to worry about, lol.

[PhilH]

This thread could run for ever, displacing ‘Early Risers’ as the longest running.

 

’I like this’, ‘I don’t like this’, ‘It’s for me’, ‘It’s not for me’, etc.

 

Ad infinitum…..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SHMD]

25 minutes ago, PhilH said:

This thread could run for ever, displacing ‘Early Risers’ as the longest running.

 

’I like this’, ‘I don’t like this’, ‘It’s for me’, ‘It’s not for me’, etc.

 

Ad infinitum…..

 

 

It might do, but I don't think so.

 

Peak demand pricing will very soon curtail a lot of leisure power use during the twice daily peak hours.

 

 

 

Kev.

(joke)

 

 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, SHMD said:

 

It might do, but I don't think so.

 

Peak demand pricing will very soon curtail a lot of leisure power use during the twice daily peak hours.

 

 

 

Kev.

(joke)

 

 

 

Kev

 

We have had this for years with economy 7 !!!!!!

[jjb1970]

14 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Kev

 

We have had this for years with economy 7 !!!!!!

 

I think what you might find approaching soon is very different. Economy 7 offered an incentive to use off peak electricity when demand was low, what you may find coming down the road soon is pricing to push people away from peak usage, similar to flat fare rail tickets during peak hours. That's not the same thing. 

[ikcdab]

We are with eon next and have the smartview2 in house display.  This has started to freeze up every night. It seems to "stick" in the early hours. All I can do is to remove the battery and reboot it.  

Its not saying it has lost the connection to the meter, it's just freezing up.  Anyone else seen this?

Ian