Smart Meter = smart move?

[boxbrownie]

As you say, moving on…..not that I am at the moment…… new left knee on Tuesday, stuck in hospital bed with a real achy leg now 😱

 

Watching the sunrise now…..no wind turbines 😂

[Nick C]

14 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I’m not sure they mean wearing a G-String

Probably not - but is it really appropriate in the current circumstances to be setting the heating to 21 just so you can wear a t-shirt and shorts in December, rather than 17 and sticking on a couple more layers?

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

As you say, moving on…..not that I am at the moment…… new left knee on Tuesday, stuck in hospital bed with a real achy leg now 😱

 

Watching the sunrise now…..no wind turbines 😂

Post-op pain killers help, and the pain will pass over time.  The exercises are very important - you will have trouble if you don't do enough.  I think I must have been doing it wrong, as I still couldn't bend my knee far enough and had to have another procedure - manipulation under general anasthetic.  The objective is gradually to get to the point that you can again bend your leg as far as normal.  The longer you are stuck in bed recovering the weaker your leg muscles get, and the longer it takes to get back your strength.  The physio gave me exercises to kick against a series of rubber bands which tied my feet together loosely, gradually using bands of increasing strength and climbing a step. 

 

I can now walk much better than before I had my operation and no longer need a walking stick, but I can't kneel on my left leg any more - apparently most people can't kneel following knee repalcement.  Getting up off the floor is also more difficult than before the op.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

Probably not - but is it really appropriate in the current circumstances to be setting the heating to 21 just so you can wear a t-shirt and shorts in December, rather than 17 and sticking on a couple more layers?

Yes it bloomin’well is appropriate thank you for your suggestion, last thing I need to be doing at my age and with asthma is breathing in cold air all the time, you could turn you heating down a few more degrees to compensate for my heating being higher that way I can avoid catching

pneumonia again this winter!
 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Post-op pain killers help, and the pain will pass over time.  The exercises are very important - you will have trouble if you don't do enough.  I think I must have been doing it wrong, as I still couldn't bend my knee far enough and had to have another procedure - manipulation under general anasthetic.  The objective is gradually to get to the point that you can again bend your leg as far as normal.  The longer you are stuck in bed recovering the weaker your leg muscles get, and the longer it takes to get back your strength.  The physio gave me exercises to kick against a series of rubber bands which tied my feet together loosely, gradually using bands of increasing strength and climbing a step. 

 

I can now walk much better than before I had my operation and no longer need a walking stick, but I can't kneel on my left leg any more - apparently most people can't kneel following knee repalcement.  Getting up off the floor is also more difficult than before the op.

Indeed the painkillers made from old depleted uranium shells help a lot* 😁

but what they send you home with are a bit less effective, I had my right knee done in 2020 in between lockdowns, it has been brilliant. You correct post op exercise and stretching in the first month is the most important bit, kneeling is a killer for sure because of the internal scarring so when I get knighted I have an excuse in front of the King 👍

*of which I’ve just had my third lot today…..yeah man….floating over the bed here.🤪

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Yes it bloomin’well is appropriate thank you for your suggestion, last thing I need to be doing at my age and with asthma is breathing in cold air all the time, you could turn you heating down a few more degrees to compensate for my heating being higher that way I can avoid catching

pneumonia again this winter!
 

To paraphrase several people on here - read what I said, not what you think I said. Having the heating higher because of a medical condition is a different matter*, but there are many people out there who will, still, have their heating high just because they can't be bothered to dress appropriately. The study you linked referred to the effects of people in colder temperatures while wearing skimpy clothing - this is not a useful study, because if it's cold people should wear suitable clothing for the conditions.

 

*assuming, of course, you're lucky enough to be able to afford it - we have now reached the point where in some areas doctors are having to prescribe heating to vulnerable patients who can't afford it otherwise...

[APOLLO]

Had a scam phonecall this morning some ****** telling me my fibreglass insulation was old and no longer insulating and recommending spray foam replacement.

 

Phone put down promptly after a typical Wigan goodbye !!!

 

Be aware.

 

Brit15

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Had a scam phonecall this morning some ****** telling me my fibreglass insulation was old and no longer insulating and recommending spray foam replacement.

 

And if they did actually come round and install spray foam insulation it would make your house unsellable as almost no provider will mortage a spray foamed house.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

To paraphrase several people on here - read what I said, not what you think I said. Having the heating higher because of a medical condition is a different matter*, but there are many people out there who will, still, have their heating high just because they can't be bothered to dress appropriately. The study you linked referred to the effects of people in colder temperatures while wearing skimpy clothing - this is not a useful study, because if it's cold people should wear suitable clothing for the conditions.

 

*assuming, of course, you're lucky enough to be able to afford it - we have now reached the point where in some areas doctors are having to prescribe heating to vulnerable patients who can't afford it otherwise...

I did and it appeared to be aimed specifically at myself, and wasn’t appreciated.

 

That report did not say skimpy.

[Nick C]

3 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I did and it appeared to be aimed specifically at myself, and wasn’t appreciated.

 

That report did not say skimpy.

Your original post, to which I was replying, said "healthy people who are sedentary and wearing minimal clothing" - so that's who I was aiming the comment at - not you personally, so apologies if it appeared to be personal!

[APOLLO]

duplicated

Edited December 1, 2022 by APOLLO

[hayfield]

On 30/11/2022 at 19:38, boxbrownie said:

But surely if it’s a normal system not a smart tado or some such where individual radiators are controlled remotely, your still sending central heating hot water to every other radiator in the house even thought thermostat is measuring the room it’s in.

 

We have just all the radiators in the rooms we don’t use regularly (or live in more accurately) turned down to minimum, it’s about half the rooms in the house give or take.

 

Its all well and good turning off radiators rooms, but when your thermostat is in the hall its the hall temperature that dictates whether the central heating is on and by how much. The smartest version of Tado is to have Tado thermostats on all of the radiators. Then you can set the temperature in every room and the heating will only come on when necessary. This requires an investment of a few hundred pounds, how long it will take you to recoup what you spend is questionable

 

The other issue is the family room is south facing with a large amount of glass (windows and doors)  warmer when the sun is out, but leaks warmth in the evening and night as we have no curtains. The lounge north facing is the coldest during the day and warmest at night. We regulate the heating for which room is in use rather than what tempreture the hall is

 

The other factor I think (?) is to have radiators larger than you require (its easier to turn the radiator thermostat down than the heating up). Waiting for our plumber to come round to discuss as the front room rad is a bit old 

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Its all well and good turning off radiators rooms, but when your thermostat is in the hall its the hall temperature that dictates whether the central heating is on and by how much. The smartest version of Tado is to have Tado thermostats on all of the radiators. Then you can set the temperature in every room and the heating will only come on when necessary. This requires an investment of a few hundred pounds, how long it will take you to recoup what you spend is questionable

 

The other issue is the family room is south facing with a large amount of glass (windows and doors)  warmer when the sun is out, but leaks warmth in the evening and night as we have no curtains. The lounge north facing is the coldest during the day and warmest at night. We regulate the heating for which room is in use rather than what tempreture the hall is

 

The other factor I think (?) is to have radiators larger than you require (its easier to turn the radiator thermostat down than the heating up). Waiting for our plumber to come round to discuss as the front room rad is a bit old 

Which is why the usual recommendation is the have the room where the thermostat is sited radiator at maximum so radiators in other rooms will always get flow when set lower (this is on the proviso the radiator and heating set up is correctly installed), it works for us because we have a large hall, open to upstairs as well the bedrooms we don’t use and a bathroom we have turned down to “frost” protection (not that that would ever happen), our heating is also set to only run during daytime 07:00>22:00 because we are at home all day……although not sure anyone needs heating on at night unless they live in a drafty castle.

 

It’s basically whatever heating installation you have it has to match the (often) unique circumstances of each family/dwelling requirements.

Edited December 2, 2022 by boxbrownie
24hr clock correction

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Its all well and good turning off radiators rooms, but when your thermostat is in the hall its the hall temperature that dictates whether the central heating is on and by how much. The smartest version of Tado is to have Tado thermostats on all of the radiators. Then you can set the temperature in every room and the heating will only come on when necessary. This requires an investment of a few hundred pounds, how long it will take you to recoup what you spend is questionable

 

We have Netatmo and used to have their TRVs on all radiators. I've taken them off again now.

They were good for seeing graphs of temperature in each room. What we found out from this is none of the upstaris radiators really need to be there and the TRVs were just an expensive way of keeping them turned off.

The other thing was when we tried setting the heating to radiator-priority where any indiviual radiator can make the boiler fire up. We discovered that our living room is the worst insulated room in the house (window, patio doors & external wall and it would put the boiler on all the time. The temperature graph looked like a sawtooth as it heated and quickly cooled. Every time it did this the hallway radiator by the thermostat would be on meaning if the living room was warm the rest of the house would be tropical.

Also the calibration of the valve was a bit hit & miss so it would kick in the heating but that radiator would remain cold...

The upshot is back to manual TRVs, all turned down upstairs and fully on in the living room and one day we'll figure out insulating the living room.

Meanwhile half a dozen Netatmo TRVs are heading to eBay once I find all the fittings.

Edited December 2, 2022 by 30801

[hayfield]

Back to smart meters Octopus has continued over the last 2 days to keep trialling the system which asks users to reduce their usage between 5:30 to 6:30pm on Wednesday and 5 to 6pm on Thursday, stroke of luck as we were away both days

 

Makes up for the system not registering me on the second session (I guess it was my fault), so I don't feel as guilty 

[Bulleidboy100]

We are with Octopus and participated in both Wednesday and Thursdays energy reduction trial. We had a list of everything that could be turned off. We sat in the dark, well not quite, my laptop was fully charged so I could watch the football on the iPlayer. Still waiting to hear whether we earned any points. Just to add to what was discussed in earlier postings, our thermostat stays at 18 and generally everything is fine. The heating/hot water is on from 7.30am - 9.30am and again from 4.30pm - 9pm. Currently still several hundred pounds in credit with Octopus.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

We are with Octopus and participated in both Wednesday and Thursdays energy reduction trial. We had a list of everything that could be turned off. We sat in the dark, well not quite, my laptop was fully charged so I could watch the football on the iPlayer. 

I wonder if the Octopus CEO sat in the dark watching TV on his Ipad? 😂

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

We are with Octopus and participated in both Wednesday and Thursdays energy reduction trial. We had a list of everything that could be turned off. We sat in the dark, well not quite, my laptop was fully charged so I could watch the football on the iPlayer. Still waiting to hear whether we earned any points. Just to add to what was discussed in earlier postings, our thermostat stays at 18 and generally everything is fine. The heating/hot water is on from 7.30am - 9.30am and again from 4.30pm - 9pm. Currently still several hundred pounds in credit with Octopus.

 

The usually take nearly a week to announce the results, Monday or Tuesday they should arrive. Its more that you turn off unnecessary items and use energy hungry appliances at a different time

 

57 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I wonder if the Octopus CEO sat in the dark watching TV on his Ipad? 😂

 

From what I have seen of him on TV he is well and truly bought into the Octopus ethos, the company is more customer focused than the larger commercial companies 

 

I know you are just having a bit of fun. But if everyone took a bit of responsibility and reduced unnecessary usage things would be easier for all

 

[Mallard60022]

My SM has decided it is going to tell us the words on the screen in Welsh! It was my fault but I don't know how I did that and can't find how to change it back to English. Maybe it/EDF wants me to learn Welsh?

[Ian Hargrave]

I am an Octogenarian Octopus and have been one for quite a time. Smart meter installed last Feb.I rarely read the thing. Makes me nervous 😩. I opted for one as I’d just come out of hospital & was uncertain of how I’d cope with the domestic “management “.The sm takes away a monthly chore anyway & that in itself is a bonus.  Being on a cocktail of medication which includes a blood thinner plus an impressive weight loss tends to make me feel the cold much more than I used to so I’m not turning the heat off when darkness comes and certainly not sitting in the dark. That seems to me to be uncivilised. Boiler fires 7:00-10:00 and 16:30-22:00 . My house is as well insulated as it can be but is in an exposed position ( possibly the highest point in the area) and has solid brick walls…built 1936.Happy day 😀

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

55 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

My SM has decided it is going to tell us the words on the screen in Welsh! It was my fault but I don't know how I did that and can't find how to change it back to English. Maybe it/EDF wants me to learn Welsh?

It will have instructions on changing the language. 

They'll be in the language the device is currently expecting you to use.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

 

I know you are just having a bit of fun. But if everyone took a bit of responsibility and reduced unnecessary usage things would be easier for all

 

Unfortunately most people do try and “save the planet” in one way or another even if it’s just recycling properly or fitting LEDs in every fixture but then you often see some jerk at the top of the tree blatantly doing something completely at odds with their message, they know who the mugs are.

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I am an Octogenarian Octopus and have been one for quite a time. Smart meter installed last Feb.I rarely read the thing. Makes me nervous 😩. I opted for one as I’d just come out of hospital & was uncertain of how I’d cope with the domestic “management “.The sm takes away a monthly chore anyway & that in itself is a bonus.  Being on a cocktail of medication which includes a blood thinner plus an impressive weight loss tends to make me feel the cold much more than I used to so I’m not turning the heat off when darkness comes and certainly not sitting in the dark. That seems to me to be uncivilised. Boiler fires 7:00-10:00 and 16:30-22:00 . My house is as well insulated as it can be but is in an exposed position ( possibly the highest point in the area) and has solid brick walls…built 1936.Happy day 😀

 

 

 

Ian

 

I am also on blood thinners and it does seem to make you feel the cold

 

We just spent a couple of days with the in laws, my brother in law keeps the temperature down a bit and it did feel a bit chilly

 

We went on Wednesday, out central heating turns itself off when we are out and by midnight on the Thursday the temperature dropped below 15 degrees so the central heating kicked back in ( its never done this before) usually if we have been away we manually (using our phones) put the heating on when we reach the A12, we thought we better start it up a bit earlier as it was so low so started it when we exited the Dartford crossing. By the time we got home it still was only 17 degrees, 90 mins later when it reached 20 degrees it seemed like a sauna, so I turned it down to 19.25 degrees, but we seemed to use quite a bit of gas in re-heating the house

 

A couple of thoughts have come to mind, firstly perhaps we could live with the temperature a bit lower during the day. Secondly it may be cheaper during the day keeping the warmth ticking over whilst we are up rather that turning the heating off in late morning and on again late afternoon

 

Once I get both yesterdays and todays analysis I will compare them, my neighbour did this a few years back and found it cheaper to keep the heating on (overnight it is set 6 degrees lower)

 

In restarting the heating yesterday we spent over £10 on gas from mid day onwards, last Tuesday (last day on all day) we spent £6.40, certainly from cold (15 degrees) it cost a lot more to warm the house back up 

 

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

A couple of thoughts have come to mind, firstly perhaps we could live with the temperature a bit lower during the day. Secondly it may be cheaper during the day keeping the warmth ticking over whilst we are up rather that turning the heating off in late morning and on again late afternoon

 

Ours is set to come on at 07:00 and off at 22:00 as we are in the house all day, it normally comes on for a few hours after 07:00 and unless very cold outside it doesn’t fire up again until early evening for an hour or so and then sometimes it won’t come on again until we go to bed, I think it all depends upon how well insulated the house is and the heat “leakage” between the timings.

[shady]

I took part in the Eon tests that ran at the same times on the same 2 days as the Octopus tests (I assume other providers were also involved). I have received one email to confirm results , but it does not state which day it relates too and does not agree with my figures.

 

It should be noted that it will not be cheaper to keep the heating on all day V only using it when required.

All buildings leak heat , the greater the differential between the internal and external temperatures and the longer the differential is held the more energy is required to do so, which equals a greater cost. This effect will be more profound in badly insulated homes (which is the bulk of the UK housing stock), but even the best insulated home will still use more energy if the heating is on all day.

Whilst it is possible to test this it requires the atmospheric conditions to be identical for all tests and the UK weather is not very helpful in this reguard.

 

I have my central heating on the most economical setting possible, it's isolated at the main breaker, and will only be used if its gets below freezing,having an electric boiler in a rented park home , means it's not economical sensible to even try to keep all of the place warm, not gone below 7.5 so far this month and I aim to keep it above 5C . I use a butane catalytic heater in the lounge as even using the expensive 15KG cylinders works out at about 23p per kWh rather than 35p for electricity.

 

Its worth pointing out that temperature alone is not as good a measure as temperature and relative humidity , 10C at 80% RH feels colder than 10C at 45% RH, to tackle the humidity I am using a desiccant dehumidifier which works better than a condensing one at lower temperatures and whilst it uses more electricity than a condensing dehumidifier it also warms the air more and as my alternative is to use electricity for heat it makes more sense in my case, which is also probably the case for most unheated model railway rooms/sheds etc.