GENERAL ELECTION 8th June

[Metr0Land]

I'd say it's well nigh impossible to foretell the implications of a 'bad deal' as it comes down to whose opinion is being expressed. eg a complex deal may well be 'good' to someone in an urban area but 'bad' if youre a farmer in mid-Wales.

 

'No deal' is more easy to forecast as it's likely to depend on how strong the negotiators are on either side, and how much brinkmanship they're willing to risk.  

 

They could go right to the wire and have the EU add tariffs to our exports, but then we could apply tariffs to theirs - bearing mind the EU exports more to us in value than we export to them, many commentators feel 'no deal' is better for us than EU.  'No deal' could in theory also mean we get to midnight the day before we break away, and both sides continue as-is whilst negotiations continue, as either or both sides have no stomach for a trade war.

[Neil]

..... I think an awful lot of people need to realise that the people voted to leave , not the government, it's now the government's responsibility to act on the democratic people's decision.  ......

 

First; some people voted to leave, not all.

 

Second; the government has a responsibility to act responsibly, sometimes that may seem to be counter to the populist view. For example a referendum could be held about abolishing income tax. The premise of income tax abolition may gain a majority, perhaps more than 52% but it would be a foolish government who pursued such a policy,the effects would be catastrophic. Just because a notion gains popular support doesn't make it a sensible thing to do. 

[Torper]

My comments on "British values" are not simply personal, by any means. They are based on various sources in the public domain

 

There are no such things as British values.  There may have been once upon a time, but there certainly aren't now.  The United Kingdom is increasingly divided politically, materially and culturally and on my infrequent visits to the southern part of Great Britain it seems more and more like a foreign country - I imagine the same may well apply the other way round.  Similarily, the values now prevalent in southern England, as exemplified by the Tory party for which most people there vote, certainly aren't the values that the majority of us up here hold and, I suspect  something similar applies to many parts of England remote from London.  Wales and Northern Ireland are of course also different.

 

In concluding, can I just congratulate and thank Andy for allowing this thread to continue for so long.  It has been an interesting, educational, and well tempered debate that has always managed to avoid turning into an argument and I think it's been a credit to the members of this forum.  Having shown that we can behave, maybe we can have some more interesting debates of this nature in future?

 

DT

[Metr0Land]

First; some people voted to leave, not all.

The MAJORITY of people voted to leave in a straightforwards in/out choice.

[fozzy280472]

First; some people voted to leave, not all.

 

Second; the government has a responsibility to act responsibly, sometimes that may seem to be counter to the populist view. For example a referendum could be held about abolishing income tax. The premise of income tax abolition may gain a majority, perhaps more than 52% but it would be a foolish government who pursued such a policy,the effects would be catastrophic. Just because a notion gains popular support doesn't make it a sensible thing to do.

 

 

Fair points ,

 

Your first point ........that is democracy. I haven't always agreed with the results of other elections but I accept the result......that's how it works.

 

Your second point......... the government wouldn't offer a referendum to the public on income tax it wouldn't be responsible governance , the government at the time offered the EU referendum and the rest is history , whether that was good governance remains to be seen .

 

 

I'm sure you know this all anyway.

 

Cheers

Paul

[Guest]

First; some people voted to leave, not all.

 

The MAJORITY of people voted to leave in a straightforwards in/out choice.

 

With a 72% turnout, I can't help but wonder if those leaning towards "remain" but did not bother to cast a vote (for whatever reason) are now kicking themselves. It is such a monumentally big issue that I'm staggered that 28% of the voting population abstained.

[Metr0Land]

With a 72% turnout, I can't help but wonder if those leaning towards "remain" but did not bother to cast a vote (for whatever reason) are now kicking themselves. It is such a monumentally big issue that I'm staggered that 28% of the voting population abstained.

I've never seen any data to suggest that the 28pct who didn't vote, wouldn't have voted anything other than 52/48.

[ian]

I've never seen any data to suggest that the 28pct who didn't vote, wouldn't have voted anything other than 52/48.

 

Well that 28% covers a whole range of people. Those who were unable to vote on the day (taken to hospital, broken down miles from home, etc.) would probably have voted as per the average. Those who chose not to use their vote by default and custom are happy with whatever the outcome is.

[ian]

. But a lot of those young people where withheld their vote (under 18's)

 

Political debate can be juvenile enough without enfranchising toddlers and teenagers!

 

I wonder if we can make it to 1000 posts before we get locked?

[Guest]

I've never seen any data to suggest that the 28pct who didn't vote, wouldn't have voted anything other than 52/48.

 

? Neither have I... that's why I said "I can't help but wonder".

[beast66606]

Political debate can be juvenile enough without enfrancising toddlers and teenagers!

 

I wonder if we can make it to 1000 posts before we get locked?

 

My under 16 said she would vote remain "to get cheap holidays" - not bothered about jobs, money, imports, exports, anything else  - just cheap holidays to Europe. Even she admitted she shouldn't be allowed to vote until she's better informed.

 

(Yes I know there are some well informed youngsters, but I would suggest most aren't at that age)

[Guest]

My under 16 said she would vote remain "to get cheap holidays" - not bothered about jobs, money, imports, exports, anything else  - just cheap holidays to Europe. Even she admitted she shouldn't be allowed to vote until she's better informed.

 

I don't think any of us should have been allowed to vote until we were better informed!

[hayfield]

As the individual countries won't be negociating any attempt to sway the necociations by leaning on/calling in favours/sweet-talking specific nations is pointless. The EU countries and commission have (or will have) agreed what the negociating team can and can't offer, what can be traded, what is the least the EU will accept and what, ideally, they would like.

 

The UK team will have a similar list.

 

There is an interesting question of what happens if no deal is reached by the end of the two years. Plenty of scope for brinkmanship, last minute concessions and much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Ian

 

I have no idea what is classed as either a hard or soft Brexit, we just need a deal that is good for all and both sides.

 

End the end you have 30 odd countries each with their own agenda, in addition you have big business and groups like the French Farmers, all wanting to protect the markets they have. which is protecting their own interests. Whatever you say these countries are used to exporting to us in larger amounts than they import. Will the German car industry allow Mrs Merkle to hurt their exports, or the French farmers loosing one of their largest markets.

 

Whatever your politics is, Mrs May is keeping her cards close to her chest, whilst the civil service communicates to its counterparts in Europe. I think the saying "is who blinks first looses"

[Mallard60022]

Handbags at the ready..............................................