BG John Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 How is everyone getting on with the height of their layout? I've just set up a board to start building a mock up of mine. The top of the board is currently at 53", as that's the closest holes on the trestles it's on. With a few temporary buildings on it, I checked the view for myself at 6'2", and crouched down to see what it would be like if I was 5'0" or 5'6". All three heights are great, although it would be nice if I was a bit shorter! I imagine short people may take a while to get used to the almost eye level view, that I doubt many will have seen on a layout before. I'll make up a quick proscenium arch when I can, and see how that works. I'll struggle to build it at that height though, without getting arm ache! Fortunately, the plan is to build nearly all the components off the baseboard, and build the baseboard much later in the project. That way, if my life changes before I get that far, or it's obvious I have no chance of finishing it in time, I'm not stuck with yet another part built layout. I've also set up a board at 31" on a table next to it, so I can start mocking up my non-cameo O gauge layout. The difference in height is pretty spectacular! It's very obvious that the layout needs to be designed, and the mock up built, at the right height, as it makes a massive difference to what will work, and what won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 With the challenge of building all the rolling stock I'm buying the base boards in as kits from G&H. They have some with a canopy built in. so the block will be 1800 by 445 by 445, with 300 of cassettes on each end. Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2017 Was just thinking that this thread had gone quiet. Glad to see two recent posts. I am struggling to get mine (1:43) to fit in the 6' length, but still working on it. Some nice new products coming out at the moment that would be ideal for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mine is still developing in my head. I bought a Scalescenes narrowboat kit the other day, to help with part of one of my ideas, and have printed the parts for making a mock up. Working in 1:43 scale does make it more challenging, which is why I'm aiming to design mine by trial and error as a full size mock up. I can visualise what I want, but can't draw it on the computer. My thoughts on using forced perspective make it harder too. I'm still curious to know how people are getting on with the height of their layouts. Looking at a lot of the layouts under construction, they seem to me to be designed for conventional viewing heights. My first thought when looking at my bare board set at 53", was that this needs some very different thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mine is still developing in my head. I bought a Scalescenes narrowboat kit the other day, to help with part of one of my ideas, and have printed the parts for making a mock up. Working in 1:43 scale does make it more challenging, which is why I'm aiming to design mine by trial and error as a full size mock up. I can visualise what I want, but can't draw it on the computer. My thoughts on using forced perspective make it harder too. I'm still curious to know how people are getting on with the height of their layouts. Looking at a lot of the layouts under construction, they seem to me to be designed for conventional viewing heights. My first thought when looking at my bare board set at 53", was that this needs some very different thinking. Hmm...it's a fair point you make. To be honest, I've never actually positioned mine at anywhere near finished viewing height yet, although it has always been designed with this in mind. All I have done other than use my imagination was produce a pencil sketch on the back of an envelope drawn at 'Cameo Height' perspective - seemed to look ok!. Not sure what if anything might (or could) be changed now as track is laid and building shells made, to be honest, I'm not too worried about it. However, my next task is to build the wings and lid so that I can sort out lighting. It's amazing what a difference to colours lighting makes; something painted on the bench looks quite different under the layout lights. But when this is done, I'll be able to get an accurate first view of the layout at proper height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 30, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mine is still developing in my head. I bought a Scalescenes narrowboat kit the other day, to help with part of one of my ideas, and have printed the parts for making a mock up. Working in 1:43 scale does make it more challenging, which is why I'm aiming to design mine by trial and error as a full size mock up. I can visualise what I want, but can't draw it on the computer. My thoughts on using forced perspective make it harder too. I'm still curious to know how people are getting on with the height of their layouts. Looking at a lot of the layouts under construction, they seem to me to be designed for conventional viewing heights. My first thought when looking at my bare board set at 53", was that this needs some very different thinking. While I am making some progress with the construction I have still to decide on a height, an issue which is starting to cause hold ups as I can’t finalise a couple of design points until I do. My current thinking is about 6inches higher than Brent (but off the top of my head I’ve no idea how high that is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The next step in designing mine is to knock up the proscenium arch out of old cardboard boxes and sticky tape. I'll try the proportions suggested in the book. Perhaps I should make several head height gauges, to help me crouch down to the level of people of various heights! I sort of did it with a tape measure the other day, and found it useful. I have a cunning, and secret, idea for viewers of restricted height, and wheelchair users . It would add interest for all viewers, but needs allowing for right from the start of planning. More practical progress was made last night, when I cut out some Peco O-16.5 turnout templates. What may slow down the planning, is that almost all of the fake Lego I bought for making mock up buildings, is currently in use on other part built layouts! I'm finding this stage of planning to be quite interesting. I'm hoping I can do a fair bit of forced perspective, that wouldn't be possible if I wasn't planning the whole thing to have very controlled viewing areas. I intend to make viewing from conventional angles an excruciatingly horrible experience, which is why my starting point is a baseboard at the final height . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) How is everyone getting on with the height of their layout? Well having handbuilt all the trackwork, when I started to wire it I condemned all of it as the running wasn’t up to scratch. That said..anyone who knows my layouts...this is usual for me Onwards and upwards... EDIT - Just realised..this was regarding height...oh well...it’s an update anyway... Edited December 3, 2017 by bcnPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 Mutton is currently at 54inches.....it may go up.....a bit... Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Mutton is currently at 54inches.....it may go up.....a bit... Rob. Howls of anguish from very short adults, kids and wheelchair users . Parts for stage one of my trials into a possibly cunning plan to keep them moderately happy, are on the way from China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Well having handbuilt all the trackwork, when I started to wire it I condemned all of it as the running wasn’t up to scratch. That said..anyone who knows my layouts...this is usual for me Onwards and upwards... EDIT - Just realised..this was regarding height...oh well...it’s an update anyway... It's probably best to build the track at normal workbench height, as there's less chance of it going wrong if you're not having to stretch up to baseboard height . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 It's probably best to build the track at normal workbench height, as there's less chance of it going wrong if you're not having to stretch up to baseboard height . wish I had spoken to you before I had started it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Onwards and upwards... EDIT - Just realised..this was regarding height...oh well...it’s an update anyway... Does that mean your track is above eye level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 Does that mean your track is above eye level? It’s a Skip level at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 wish I had spoken to you before I had started it I've just started building the mock up at eye level. Every part of the real layout, where possible, will be built on the workbench. Only when I've got most of it ready will I build the baseboard, on my normal height workbench. Hopefully I'll have the mock up at viewing height to act as a guide, and the real thing at a useful working level to assemble everything. On the other hand, I broke my 30 odd year old office chair recently, so I could rebuild it for comfortable working at the final baseboard height. I fear I may end up experiencing the problems of viewing a Cameo layout from a wheelchair though if anything goes wrong though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 My current thinking is about 6 inches higher than Brent (but off the top of my head I’ve no idea how high that is.) 124 metres above sea level, old chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 124 metres above sea level, old chap. 64 inches above floor level then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2017 Howls of anguish from very short adults, kids and wheelchair users But not from tall people with lower back problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 But not from tall people with lower back problems. I went to several exhibitions where Petherick appeared before I got a chance to see it. It was only when the crowds had died down that I could get close enough, and crouch down to be able to get a look in. I'll have to stand on tiptoes to test the whole range of viewer's heights, as I'm only 6' 2½"! It looks as though it may be possible to do some serious forced perspective, so I've got to make sure that anyone who can get their eyes immediately under the proscenium arch won't have the illusion shattered. Of course I've also got the make it work for anyone whose eyes are right at baseboard level, so they don't see the overhead lighting. This is becoming an interesting project without even thinking about the finer details of scenery and other non techie stuff! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 As BG John rightly points out on my Midland in Bristol thread, my light pelmet is a bit mimsy and almost certainly won't hide the top edge of the skyline once the layout is raised to 'proper' height. Having built it, I decided perhaps I ought to read the relevant section in The Book...! Lo and behold, The Book gives quite a bit of info I really should have taken note of before building the light pelmet! Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I did, however, scan The Book to try and find the relevant section that talks about ideal viewing height and can't at present find it. However, a quick sketch shows that with a depth of 500mm, an overall height of 700mm and an average eye-line height of 1650mm (I'm 5'9" in old money and I reckon my eye-line is about 5'5") gives a light pelmet height of not less than 100mm in order to cover the top edge of the skyline with a floor to track height of 1300mm (51"). This does mean, of course, that shorter people are going to be able to see the top of the skyline. It also means that raising the floor to track height obviously increases the required height of the pelmet. I can't see how I can cater for people of below-average height in my calculations, unless the pelmet comes down quite a way. Maybe 700mm is too high?! But with a scene modelled at 7mm, it needs to be I think. Decisions, decisions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I couldn't find all the details I'm sure I read in the book, when I was setting up the board for my mock up. I know it's in there somewhere, so I suppose I'll have to re-read it! I'm building the mock up on a 6'6" x 2'6" door. The current idea is that the fiddle yard is hidden behind a canal wharf, so to comply with the one scenic baseboard competition rule, the whole layout will need to be in one piece. An interesting challenge in lightweight baseboard construction to make it manageable! Perhaps the fiddle yard will have to be a plug-in unit to keep the weight down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I couldn't find all the details I'm sure I read in the book, when I was setting up the board for my mock up. I know it's in there somewhere, so I suppose I'll have to re-read it! I'm building the mock up on a 6'6" x 2'6" door. The current idea is that the fiddle yard is hidden behind a canal wharf, so to comply with the one scenic baseboard competition rule, the whole layout will need to be in one piece. An interesting challenge in lightweight baseboard construction to make it manageable! Perhaps the fiddle yard will have to be a plug-in unit to keep the weight down. Yes, weight is yet another issue...it's going to be a two-man lift as it is to get it on its trestles. I suppose that's ok? I did read somewhere it needs to be easily transportable... My main scenic board is 450mm x 1800mm with a fiddle yard yet to be built but probs about 400mm x 900mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Yes, weight is yet another issue...it's going to be a two-man lift as it is to get it on its trestles. I suppose that's ok? I did read somewhere it needs to be easily transportable... My main scenic board is 450mm x 1800mm with a fiddle yard yet to be built but probs about 400mm x 900mm. I think needing two people to move it is OK. My main concern isn't transporting it to exhibitions, but getting it up and down stairs to the railway room. I'm not thinking about that one yet! On the baseboard height issue, I suppose a computer could be constantly scanning viewers to establish an average eye level, and raising or lowering the layout accordingly! The same mechanism could be used to transport the layout, using the baseboard as a trolley, then raising the board to viewing height when it's in place. Then just add a drive motor, sensors to detect where you are in relation to it, and some collision sensors, and you could walk into the exhibition hall with the layout obediently following . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefromacrossthepond Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I couldn't find all the details I'm sure I read in the book, when I was setting up the board for my mock up. I know it's in there somewhere, so I suppose I'll have to re-read it! Not necessarily a bad thing. Not sure about you, but it seems that every time I "re-read" something because I'm not sure if I'm remembering something correctly (or perhaps even imagined the whole thing) I "discover" a wealth of stuff that some how I didn't notice the previous time(s) I've read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I'm working through the book and making notes at the moment, or at least I would be if I hadn't got interrupted by food! I might post something later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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