18000 Brown Boveri gas turbine

[jjb1970]

A modern gas turbine would be interesting. With intercooling and recuperation you can flatten the fuel consumption curve and peak efficiency isn't that far behind a diesel with the much higher energy density and simplicity offsetting the efficiency penalty.

[Castle]

According to Wikipedia the diesel was also used to start the turbine and typically the loco was driven to Padington with the diesel and then the turbine started just before departure due to the noise it produced.

 

Keith

 

Edit:

Are there any traction motors still fitted?

One original A1A is motorless(?), effectively a 6 wheel carrying truck, and the other was replaced with a bogie with just one motor which could be changed for the tests.

Hi Keith,

 

Yep correct - one traction motor still fitted in the centre of the modified bogie!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[TT3]

IIRC as well as the turbine engine, it also had a small diesel engine for use when shunting. I know the innards of 18000 are all gone but I sometimes daydream that the diesel engine could be reinstated allowing it to move under its own power again.

 

I agree a model would be great. I have an N Gauge kit sitting in my UFO pile which actually looks like it would make up into a nice model if I could find the right chassis.

 

 

18000 has been under the wires before though.

 

 

IIRC the langley N gauge kit used an Atlas chassis so finding something appropriate shouldn't be a problem

[EddieB]

A good in depth article (8 pages) on 18000 in today's 'Rail' magazine.

Which edition is/was the article? I went to check the current issue of Rail to see if it was worth buying (thinking it was still the same one) and couldn't find the article in it.

[Re6/6]

Which edition is/was the article? I went to check the current issue of Rail to see if it was worth buying (thinking it was still the same one) and couldn't find the article in it.

Issue 825 Apr 26> May 9. The article is the last one right at the back of the mag.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Re6/6

[APOLLO]

Not the UK gas turbine but this film is worth a watch.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrJPa9X2G4Y

 

Brit15

[APOLLO]

Another UP Turbine film, good photography. There sre a couple of views of the Union Pacific coal burning gas turbine also. Not a successful locomotive.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6P6_4i_Z80

 

Brit15

Edited May 2, 2017 by APOLLO

[Re6/6]

Thanks for those. A fascinating watch.

[jamie92208]

Thanks for those. A fascinating watch.

 

There is a great book about all the UP turbines called Turbnes Westward.   It covers the two experimental steam/electric turbines from the 1930's and then the three classes of UP Gas turbine electrics and also as mentioned above the experimental coal burning turbine 8080 (IIRC) that was built using one of the ex GN electrics from the Cascades line.    The big Gas Turbines were enourmous beast with three units, a cab control unit made from a converted Alco PA (I think), then the turbine unit then a bogie fuel tender that came from a retired steam loco. The cab unit had a 2000hp diesel loco in it for shunting the whole assembly around.  At least one is preserved and is on display at Ogden.

Not the easiest thing to photograph as there are other locos on one side and live railway track on the other.

 

Jamie

[Karhedron]

 

I agree a model would be great. I have an N Gauge kit sitting in my UFO pile which actually looks like it would make up into a nice model if I could find the right chassis.

IIRC the langley N gauge kit used an Atlas chassis so finding something appropriate shouldn't be a problem

 

That is what the instructions state but when I got the specified chassis, it was much too wide for the body (by several millimeters), there was no way the shell would fit on it.

 

 

I parked the project in bafflement and have not got around to starting it again. I have been vaguely hoping that I would see someone else complete one so I could pick their brains. 

[TT3]

That is what the instructions state but when I got the specified chassis, it was much too wide for the body (by several millimeters), there was no way the shell would fit on it.

 

 

 

I parked the project in bafflement and have not got around to starting it again. I have been vaguely hoping that I would see someone else complete one so I could pick their brains. 

Oh that's a right pain especially if you don't like endless filing to reduce body and chassis. I managed to file and shape a kato mikado to fit in a minitrix decapod body to create a passable l1but what a chore to make it fit.

[Karhedron]

Oh that's a right pain especially if you don't like endless filing to reduce body and chassis.

 

I did actually make a start on filing but I quickly realised I would need to remove so much material that I would run out of bodyshell and/or drastically weaken the mechanical strength of the chassis. The recommended loco for the donor chassis was in production for many years, possibly there was more than one version and I got the wrong one. However without knowing for sure what the right chassis is, I don't fancy splashing more cash if there is a risk of getting it wrong again.

 

It's a shame as the bodyshell is actually very crisply cast and nicely detailed. I am sure I can make a nice loco out of it if I can find the right way of powering it.

[John Tomlinson]

IIRC as well as the turbine engine, it also had a small diesel engine for use when shunting. I know the innards of 18000 are all gone but I sometimes daydream that the diesel engine could be reinstated allowing it to move under its own power again.

 

I agree a model would be great. I have an N Gauge kit sitting in my UFO pile which actually looks like it would make up into a nice model if I could find the right chassis.

 

 

18000 has been under the wires before though.

 

The picture is an interesting one and looks as if the loco is new.

 

The catenary, rolling stock and building design all strongly indicate it to have been taken on the continent, presumably on delivery from Brown-Boveri.My best guess is in France, but someone else may have better knowledge of the catenary design. Obviously the loading gauge is more generous on the continent, which may explain why it was allowed on these electrified lines.

 

John.

 

P.S. Silver Fox used to do 4mm resin moulded bodies for 18000 & 18100, and perhaps someone knows if they are still available?

Edited May 2, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[The Stationmaster]

We have of course been here before on the subject of 18000 and gas-turbines -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46318-18000-on-test/

 

and 'St Simon' linked this fascinating video

 

http://www.zeitraumaargau.ch/?v=e86dgy9d#/detail/e86dgy9d

 

Which suggests the still photo in the previous post and earlier was taken in Switzerland

Edited May 2, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[Re6/6]

 

Which suggests the still photo in the previous post and earlier was taken in Switzerland

Indeed. The OHL is definitely Swiss.

 

An excellent piece of film.

[dibber25]

Turbines also use nearly as much fuel whilst idling as they do under full load, that may also have influenced the use of the diesel engine for light engine movements.

 

The most successful user of them was the Union Pacific in the US where they were used on long hauls of heavy frieight. Running at high outputs for hours on end suited them well.

 

.

 

That was pretty much the whole purpose of the diesel engine - more economical transfers between OOC and Paddington. I question some of the conclusions in Phil Haigh's article, having, myself, done original research on the gas turbines for a feature in Trains Illustrated back in the 1980s. At that time I was contacted by Phil Atkins, the NRM Chief Librarian, who said he knew I was interested in the gas turbines and would I like to come and have a look at a box of original records which had not been opened since the day it was created. Among the material in that box was Swindon's 'Failures book' for 18000. It consisted of an album of photographs showing failed components which had caused the loco to be stopped. The vast majority of them were combustion chamber linings. The pictures reminded me of those garden refuse incinerators that are like a dustbin - after they've had a few good bonfires in them! The lack of a sufficiently heat-resistant material for the combustion chamber lining was the primary cause of failure and the primary reason why 18000 was withdrawn. Swindon simply could not justify the repeated expenditure on this component. (CJL)

[Re6/6]

They should've asked you to write the article Chris!

[dibber25]

We have of course been here before on the subject of 18000 and gas-turbines -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46318-18000-on-test/

 

and 'St Simon' linked this fascinating video

 

http://www.zeitraumaargau.ch/?v=e86dgy9d#/detail/e86dgy9d

 

Which suggests the still photo in the previous post and earlier was taken in Switzerland

 

The GWR sent one of Hawksworth's junior assistants to monitor the construction. There were weeks when nothing happened. There was an occasion when a piece of bodywork (a grille I think) was cut wrong-handed and didn't fit. The poor guy was given a pittance as a living allowance and finally the £ was devalued. His letters to Hawksworth, asking for more money, were all in that box - together with the responses saying "No". The GWR, generous to a fault..... (CJL)

 

They should've asked you to write the article Chris!

I wish they had - I knew nothing about it, despite sitting not ten yards from RAIL's editorial team - and I still have all the photos from my original research. I still reckon it would be a great exclusive rtr model but I can't convince anyone else. However, Jason at Rapido Trains is a fan of gas turbines. 

Edited May 2, 2017 by dibber25

[steve1]

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it pass through Slough when I was a lad. My late father was a fitter on the WR in those days and I remember him talking about it.

 

steve

[Re6/6]

I still reckon it would be a great exclusive rtr model but I can't convince anyone else. However, Jason at Rapido Trains is a fan of gas turbines. 

There aren't that many 'diesels' left to do so keep pressing Chris for one and the two incarnations of 18100...someone must listen to you!

 

A similar article in MR would be good with the proper info!

Edited May 2, 2017 by Re6/6

[BernardTPM]

I did actually make a start on filing but I quickly realised I would need to remove so much material that I would run out of bodyshell and/or drastically weaken the mechanical strength of the chassis. The recommended loco for the donor chassis was in production for many years, possibly there was more than one version and I got the wrong one. However without knowing for sure what the right chassis is, I don't fancy splashing more cash if there is a risk of getting it wrong again.

I thought those Langley diesels were designed for the largely plastic 1970s Model Power/Mehano chassis*, though I know the Anbrico Cl.50 was meant for the Atlas/Rivarossi chassis.

 

* Reading the link, it seems that Atlas used to import the Mehano chassis too, perhaps that's where the confusion has come in. If I were you I'd look at using something else though, those old Mehano chassis were pretty poor (though a bit lump of whitemetal used to help with the pick-ups!)

Edited May 2, 2017 by BernardTPM

[Karhedron]

* Reading the link, it seems that Atlas used to import the Mehano chassis too, perhaps that's where the confusion has come in. If I were you I'd look at using something else though, those old Mehano chassis were pretty poor (though a bit lump of whitemetal used to help with the pick-ups!)

 

The 00 Gauge Silver Fox kit recommends the use of a Bachmannclass 37 chassis. I wonder if a Farish 37 Chassis would work? At least it might be close enough bodge. 

 

EDIT - Direct from Langley's website:

 

Originally designed to fit the Lifelike SD45 which is only available 2nd hand.

A direct replacement for this chassis with improved running Bachmann GE Dash 40c (product code 85059 or 85053 & 50055)

Edited May 2, 2017 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

Does anyone know where I can find livery details such as the width of the silver lining and the size/font of the numbers?

[BernardTPM]

As far as sizing goes it would probably be best to proportion it to fit the model. The lettering looks pretty much the same as that used on BR steam locos, so a version of Gill Sans. If you look at the '0' on 18000 and compare it to the '0' on LMS 10000 you can see they're not the same, 10000 having a binique* style (shared with 10001).

They are raised numerals so you could go down to Didcot and measure them. Good side on photo here.

 

* I coined the term for where just two things share a style - so just one level down from unique...

[Arun Sharma]

That was pretty much the whole purpose of the diesel engine - more economical transfers between OOC and Paddington. I question some of the conclusions in Phil Haigh's article, having, myself, done original research on the gas turbines for a feature in Trains Illustrated back in the 1980s. At that time I was contacted by Phil Atkins, the NRM Chief Librarian, who said he knew I was interested in the gas turbines and would I like to come and have a look at a box of original records which had not been opened since the day it was created. Among the material in that box was Swindon's 'Failures book' for 18000. It consisted of an album of photographs showing failed components which had caused the loco to be stopped. The vast majority of them were combustion chamber linings. The pictures reminded me of those garden refuse incinerators that are like a dustbin - after they've had a few good bonfires in them! The lack of a sufficiently heat-resistant material for the combustion chamber lining was the primary cause of failure and the primary reason why 18000 was withdrawn. Swindon simply could not justify the repeated expenditure on this component. (CJL)

As per my post #22 Chris