18000 Brown Boveri gas turbine

[melmerby]

Having seen a couple of books that mentioned 18000 recently both said it ran on "heavy" oil (furnace fuel oil according to OS Nock) which was pre-heated before entering the turbine to make it fluid enough to use.

Aviation fuel is not heavy oil, it is kerosene/parafin and could be used without pre-heating.

 

So who is right?

 

Keith

[Arun Sharma]

Possibly both given that part of the delay in the Modernisation Plan would have been due to the deficit in Balance of Payments as at that time diesel fuel and/or FFO/Bunker C might have to be imported and the country didn't have the dosh to pay for it. It may be that as availability of dosh improved, the likelihood of using expensive imported foreign fuels also improved.

[billy_anorak59]

There may confusion between the Brown-Boveri 18000 and the MetroVick 18100 here?

18000 used heavy fuel oil and 18100 used aviation kerosene.

[Re6/6]

A couple of snaps of it that l took at Didcot in 2011.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

I've tried finding the answer on this before, but other than a rough black and white sketch in "The Last Station" I haven't seen an answer.

 

Does anyone know how 18000 or 18100 would have been finished if they had been delivered before the end of the GWR?

[melmerby]

I've tried finding the answer on this before, but other than a rough black and white sketch in "The Last Station" I haven't seen an answer.

 

Does anyone know how 18000 or 18100 would have been finished if they had been delivered before the end of the GWR?

One would assume the same as any locomotive.

DE shunter No.2 was painted green and lined out but with a painted number.

18000 may have got a cabside cast plate like steam locos as it was more important. I wonder what the number would have been?

The DE shunter was to be renumbered 500 by the GWR and the next few were to be 501-7 However BR came along and they all ended up as 15100 - 15107 with cast cabside plates (and painted black?)

 

keith

Edited May 13, 2017 by melmerby

[BernardTPM]

Does anyone know how 18000 or 18100 would have been finished if they had been delivered before the end of the GWR?

I think there may have been an 'artisist's impression' in this book, but it would have been black and white. I've got a copy somewhere.

[The Fatadder]

I think there may have been an 'artisist's impression' in this book, but it would have been black and white. I've got a copy somewhere.

That was the book I was thinking of (although I incorrectly called it the Last station rather than the Next Station, and completely forgot the books actual title....

I have a copy and have seen the sketch you refer to, if I remember rightly it looks quite different to the usual GW loco livery (lining wise).  Would be interesting to know if they had planed to stick with green or change to Black.

[billy_anorak59]

At Crewe Heritage centre c.1994...

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by billy_anorak59

[The Johnster]

Photos of both liveries show that the light colour of the roof has been used to attempt to hide how very tall this loco is!

[Staffordshire]

   Just thought I would add this photo of a kit built OO gauge Gas Turbine,  built professionally from a NoNonsense Kit ....

 

   I think it has turned out rather well, comments welcome ...

[dibber25]

Turbines also use nearly as much fuel whilst idling as they do under full load, that may also have influenced the use of the diesel engine for light engine movements.

 

The most successful user of them was the Union Pacific in the US where they were used on long hauls of heavy frieight. Running at high outputs for hours on end suited them well.

 

.

 

That WAS why the diesel engine was used when running light. (CJL)

[dibber25]

The picture is an interesting one and looks as if the loco is new.

 

The catenary, rolling stock and building design all strongly indicate it to have been taken on the continent, presumably on delivery from Brown-Boveri.My best guess is in France, but someone else may have better knowledge of the catenary design. Obviously the loading gauge is more generous on the continent, which may explain why it was allowed on these electrified lines.

 

John.

 

P.S. Silver Fox used to do 4mm resin moulded bodies for 18000 & 18100, and perhaps someone knows if they are still available?

 

I wrote all this up from the original documents in the NRM, way back. From memory, it was in Trains Illustrated in the 1980s under the title 'The Great Western's Big Blow' (a reference to what Union Pacific called its gas turbine). From memory, the photos of it in Europe were taken in Zurich while it was on test. Construction was protracted. Hawksworth sent a man over from Swindon to monitor the construction. The poor man was paid at subsistence level and during his time there, the £ was devalued and he had to write begging letters to Hawksworth to send him some more money. I've repeatedly proposed the idea of a RTR model of 18000 to any manufacturer who might listen. I'm still hopeful we'll get one in my lifetime. (CJL) 

[Re6/6]

I've repeatedly proposed the idea of a RTR model of 18000 to any manufacturer who might listen. I'm still hopeful we'll get one in my lifetime. (CJL) 

 

It would seem to be a good proposal for Heljan, or Kernow.

 

Also this one, maybe in its two incarnations!. Photo taken at Mutley (Plymouth).

 

[jamie92208]

Here's one of the Union Pacific's 'Big Blows' preserved at Ogden Utah

It's difficult to photograph but it is an impressive machine in 3 parts.  The leading part is a former Alco PA passenger unit with a 2000 HP diesel engine that was used to shunt the loco and for light engine moves.  The second unit was the turbine unit that could generate up to 10,000 HP depending on the temperature and air pressure.  The third unit was a former steam tender used to supply fuel oil (Bunker C IIRC).  The whole thing is about 200' long.   They were the third series of Gas Turbines that the UP had.  As has been commented on above they were good at long constant speed runs across Wyoming, 400 miles with few stops.  There are photos of them double heading with Big Boys and other steam articulated. The book that explains all about them is called Turbines Westward and covers the three classes of Gas Turbines, the two experimental steam/electric turbines from te 1930's and the experimental Coal burning gas turbine that used the carcass of a former Great Northern Electric.

 

Jamie

[Kelly]

A couple of snaps of it that l took at Didcot in 2011.

 

 

It seems to have deteriorated quite badly in those 7 years since your photos (these were taken last month at the Swindon Panel Opening signalling event):

 

[adb968008]

Agreed, I saw it myself last week, some of the body panels are rusted through, you can see daylight through rust from one side to the other.

 

In my opinion this is one which the NRM should have in its care.

[The Johnster]

Well, it clearly needs to be under cover; it is bound to deteriorate outside.  And there's the problem; not sure even the NRM have room to spare for it.  It is unlikely ever to run again, and, apart from the curiosity value, is pretty much a hulk with nothing much inside, so there is little apart from the appearance, arguably the least important thing, to be learned from it's remains.  Let's be honest, the prospects are not good!

[Kelly]

It is out of gauge to leave the centre now I believe, especially now the overhead knitting has gone up!

 

IIRC, it is Waterman who owns it rather than the NRM, so the NRM won't have any involvement in it at present?

[adb968008]

i don’t think height is an issue, GWR max height was 13’5, I don’t think 18000 would be higher than original GWR loading gauge. Catenary height is 4780mm (15’ 8.5 inches). I doubt width matters, it doesn’t have to go through platforms to get it out of Didcot after dark.

 

Some pictures below, (not mine), show it towering over an SNCF and DB electric with their more generous loading gauges..

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/114792788@N08/14404407845

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/18000/testbed/18000testbed_01.html

 

It does exceed the height of a Hawksworth by a margin..

https://bobfostersrailgallery.weebly.com/uploads/7/8/7/0/7870804/10707..17.09.11_didcot_railway_centre..gas_turbine_1800_filtered.jpg

 

As for running again...

 

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/18000/18000pic_06.html

I think it could be a good home for a model railway layout, shop or gallery though.

Edited July 20, 2018 by adb968008

[Coach bogie]

It is over wide for the UK at the end away from BR logo. Note the body wider at Buffer beam height at one end only. ( See Kelly's images second row). This was an addition by ABB when it was being used as a test bed.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[ThePipersSon]

Yes - but the rules have changed since its' day.  If you look at the changes to the King, and the changes being made to the 47XX under construction, to bring them into gauge, then basically the goalposts have changed,

 

Tom

[adb968008]

So much pessimism.

 

Even the GWML needs maintenance, there will be a time the wires aren’t live.

A midnight hours tow out of site, through the yard roads to a loading point is definitely possible.

 

I’ve seen a Didcot based steam rail motor, running on the GWML on the down fast line (not slow) inside the M25 in steam at 2am.. if that is possible towing a dead loco off site to a siding with low loader access less than a mile away certainly is.

 

The height of the King and County are being lowered as they intend to prowl the network at will, and need the range. 18000 will never roll on its own again, let alone roam the network.

 

The bigger challenge is finding a home for 18000 on a supposedly Heritage site, that actually does care about Heritage that can not earn its keep under its own power. I can think of several suitable locations, but suspect NIMBY plays a part when it comes to privately owned, but unusable locomotives.

 

At least at Didcot, it’s safe and has a home, and plays the part of an interesting unique exhibit, even if it’s outside, it could be dumped in some siding at an MOD base or some other out of the spotlight place to rust away.

 

If I could pick 3 homes for 18000.. Steam, NRM or the engine house, but Didcot is as good a home as any.. just needs some covered storage, a problem shared by preserved modern traction nationwide. Right now though it could do with some TLC.

 

If Didcot or PWL chose to move 18000 out of Didcot, they could.

 

On a side tangent though, walking through the sheds, a very complete looking Pendennis Castle was coupled up to 5051.

Edited July 20, 2018 by adb968008