Dave Holt Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi Peter. The more photos of DoS we see, the more and more detailed changes from BR condition become apparent - many related to the conversion to air brakes (extra pipes on both sides and in the cab, extra gauges and drivers pedestal in cab, etc.). Also noticed are odd bulges in the middle sand filler pipe plates and wheel flange lubricator blocks. On balance, I would definitely base the model on CoB rather than DoS, where they differ. The larger pipe on the LH side running plate on CoB, you mentioned earlier, which obscures the lubricator heating pipes, is the conduit for the AWS system, so would only appear if you're modelling after that was fitted (late '50's or 1960). Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 .....On balance, I would definitely base the model on CoB rather than DoS, where they differ..... Unless you are specifically replicating 46233 as it is today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petebe Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi Peter Brakes. How do you know these things!!! I found the rods to close to the wheels, so I put a washer between the top hat bearing and the rod. After I finished the brakes the rods just cleared the hanger brackets. Also the brake shoes seemed to me to be about right on the wheels. Have I missed something? That rocker was a bit tricky, two thin washers on top then I soldered brass tube on and under the rocker. Taken it apart so will have to reassemble to check clearance to bogie. Your build is looking very very good. I'm working on the oil boxes at the moment. Pete 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi Dave, I agree with you. DoS has had a lot of mods made in preservation for mainline running in the 21st century, whereas CoB represents BR service condition (albeit at the end). There are of course differences in the tender and front end of the loco, due to CoB being a de-streamlined engine, that need to be taken into account. David, Thanks for the offer of replacement castings. I was sure you would replace them if I asked, but I thought why bother when they are mostly obscured by the cylinders. Again your commitment to customer service is obvious, as mentioned earlier by Petebe Pete, Looking at your brake gear, the alignment to the wheel treads looks good, despite using the cross beams as they are. However, the extra length of the hanger bracket is obvious, but in line with the length of 0.9mm rod on which the brakes are hung. The instructions suggest allowing 7mm protruding from the frames, but that overhung the outer edge of the treads, so I cut it back. This is probably why I needed to cut back the cross beams. Here's a brake hanger on CoB which does not protrude beyond the tread. If you look at your pics of DoS you will also notice that Duchess has an additional fitting on top of the hanger bracket (to measure tread wear????), which I assume is a preservation fitting. You mention adding a washer to the top hat bearing. Was that to move the coupling rods out to clear the overhanging bracket? Nice work on the rocker lever. I see it's fixed to the frame so I'll had to consider how to modify that as I want to be able to de-mount the cylinders, slide bars and valve gear as a unit. Another bridge to cross later. Horsetan, If you are modelling DoS as preserved,m then you also need to alter the tender which has additions which are not prototypical to BR service. Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Holt Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 If you look at your pics of DoS you will also notice that Duchess has an additional fitting on top of the hanger bracket (to measure tread wear????), which I assume is a preservation fitting. That's the wheel flange lubricator I mentioned. It's a spring loaded block of some sort of solid lubricant in a holder, set to bear on the root of the wheel flange. Definitely a preservation mod, also seen on several other preserved locos (the Hall at the GWSR, for instance). Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petebe Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Hi Peter I added the washers between top hat bearings and rod because the rods fouled the wheel centres, It also helped clear the hanger brackets too. My intention with the rockers so I too could remove them as a unit is to solder the washers to the top making it one piece. Then solder a nut under the chassis bracket so the screw can be removed from above. The rocker will only locate the valve spindles on the underside. The instructions suggests soldering a 14BA nut to the underside of the rocker so it can easily be accessed. However looking at my pics it would seem the rocker straddles the valve spindle. So a cheat might be possible by putting a piece above the valve spindle, bending right angle behind valve spindle and solder to top of rocker. It would make it out of alignment with the top of the chassis bracket though. Overall I think the chassis bracket is too low. By raising the bracket, and a spacer between the two halves of the rocker .................A little bit more thought needed me thinks. Hope this makes sense. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 Hi Pete, No doubt it will make sense once I start the valve gear. Didn't have much time this week but finished off the brake gear and amended one or two things. First up the front cross beam has been dispensed with and replaced with 0.9mm rod to improve the clearance for the rear bogie wheels. I broke the pull rod doing this and will have to repair it. Here's the slider plates from the underside showing that they are fitted level with the bottom edge of the frames to avoid any possible contact with the sliders on the bogie. I have also filed off the half etch on the bogie pivot hole to allow it to move sideways on the curves. I need to tidy up the filing on that front edge and may have to restrict the side movement later. I have also reprofiled the front brake hangers and set them as close to the wheels as possible for added clearance. To complete the bogie detail I added some 16 BA nuts to the side frames. Here's the completed brake linkages and cylinder. The mounting bracket has a cut out at the rear to allow clearance for the gearbox on the rear axle. If you look back at Petebe's you will notice he has used the full size bracket (both are included on the etch) so I assume he will be driving the middle axle. I have also modified the piping on the left hand lubricators following further investigation after seeing Pete's photos of DoS and reading Dave Holt's comments. I wasn't happy with the alignment of the cladding band on the lower firebox so removed and refitted them on both sides. Finally I got around to scoring the joint lines on the smoke deflectoes between the rivet lines. Should have done it in the flat really as it would have been easier. Cheers, Peter 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano747 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Lovely clean work Peter. I thoroughly enjoy your builds! Regards, Deano. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 Thanks Deano, I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder. I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet. Cheers, Peter 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswjr Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Definitely going to give up,Gonna sell my soldering iron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Thanks Deano, I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder. I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet. main.jpg Cheers, Peter Hi Peter, If you do a search on here I seem to recall that Christian had a build thread at one time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted September 18, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2017 Thanks Deano, I like to keep the solder to the minimum and clean up as much as possible. It's never clean enough though so I have to try harder. I found this Finney A3 build some time ago on " Building O Gauge Online". It's by a guy called Christian Cresswell. This is how I'd like my builds to be. Dikitriki and Mickoo (from Finney 7) on Western Thunder are in the same league but I have a way to go yet. main.jpg Cheers, Peter That is seriously scary!!!!! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 That is seriously scary!!!!! Nah, I can still see traces of solder on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Ah, Christian Cresswell, used to love following his builds on "Building O gauge Online". I wonder what happened to him? And why that site stopped adding new builds? The webmaster, simon Varnam, was also instrumental in MIGO+1, but I've not heard of him either for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 I go back to the site every now and then but none of the part builds have everprogressed. The site is still live as they have a web shop.I use their water based flux which I find is excellent and would recommend. Cheers, Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 And good service too. Ordered a fresh bottle last Thursday evening and recived on Saturday morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 I finally managed to get started on the cylinders and valve gear, but before that I couldn't resist getting the buffers on the loco. The stocks are very nice brass castings as are the oval heads. The stocks have a square hole cast in them, to which a square shaft on the head is meant to mate, thus keeping the oval heads horizontal. I must admit, I was a bit dubious that these would work well, but hats off to Gladiator. After some fettling with the file, tapping the end of the square shaft 10 BA, adding a spring and nut , they work perfectly! Here they are before fixing to the buffer beam And after fixing. Nice. On with the cylinders and valve gear. First the slide bars and cross head/piston rod after fettling. The drop link come as an etching with half etch bolt detail. The problem with that is the link is very thin and not only looks poor, but I thought also too fragile. However, that nice Mr. Gladiator provides two sets on the fret, so by laminating a left and a right X 2, then filing off the bolts on the back of each, you end up with a visually better and more robust fitting. It was necessary to grind off the curved bit behind hole in the cross head to get the link to sit flat on the extension at the rear of the casting. Here are the slide bars soldered to the cylinders. And yes, I know the left cylinder has taken a knock at the rear of the top curve. It's fixed now. Here are the slide bar and motion brackets laminated and fettled up ready for soldering together on the cylinders. And soldered to the cylinders. And in place in the frames. This is the right side rocker arm bracket soldered to the frame. The bottom hole was tapped to take a 14 BA bolt to allow the rocker arm to be disconnected from the frames, so that valve gear and cylinders may be removed as one unit. Here's the fret showing the return crank etchings. It's a laminate of two parts (inner and outer with half etch bolt detail), but the outer part has raised bolt detail instead of being recessed as per the prototype. Again that nice Mr. Gladiator comes to our rescue by providing spare outer etches on the fret. This allows one etch to have the bolts drilled out and then overlayed and laminated to the other giving a better appearance. it still needs to be laminated to the inner etch. Here are the radius rod, expansion link and eccentric rod before joining. I have added the provided brass washers from the etch to prevent slop in the joints. The lower hole in the expansion link was added to allow the vale gear to be set in the forward gear. These are the valve rod guide castings. One fettled, one just cut from the sprue. And all fitted. Left hand side only at this stage. Sorry about the focus on this image. And a close up. Here's the left hand cylinder cover after "panel beating" out the dint seen in the previous image. Cheers, Peter 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 Before somebody points it out, I realised afterwards that although the return crank nuts are in a recess, they are in fact still proud of the crank surface. However, I still think my modification improves the appearance so I'm sticking with it. Cheers, Peter 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Good idea with the buffers. Perhaps JLTRT might like to look at that for their oval buffered diesels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 A little bit more progress on the left hand valve gear. Here's the lifting link and reversing arm in place on the cross shaft. I used 1.6mm NS rod for the shaft then centre punched and drill the end. I think the shaft on the real thing may be hollow but I'm not sure. In any case I don't have any NS tube. The pin on the end of the lifting link is 1mm NS rod only soldered to the out etching so that the valve gear can be removed. The shaft passes through the frames so I extended the gap for the valve gear bracket with a grinding disk so the shaft can be dropped into place. The valve gear/cylinders need to be put in at an angle so the cosmetic frame spacers on the valve gear and slide bar brackets were cut off. Here are the slots cut in the frames to allow the lifting link cross shaft to drop into the aperture. Here's the left hand valve gear back in the frames. And the right hand side with the lifting link just pushed onto the shaft. I also laminated the left hand connecting rod and fitted it to the crosshead. I soldered a 14 BA nut to the outside of the crosshead, then drilled it 1mm and tapped it 12 BA. The connecting rod is then fitted with a 12 BA counter sunk bolt from the inside. A 12 BA nut would be too big but I preferred to use a 12 BA bolt so hence the jiggery pokery with the nut. The wheels can't be turned as the front crackpin needs sorting out as it fouls the connecting rod. Here's a shot of the crosshead and nut. I won't be able to do anything further next week due to a business trip, so progress will stall for a while. Cheers, Peter 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I do like the idea of having the valve gear coming off with the cylinders etc. I already make them removable. Think I will try on the jubilee that's coming up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 Hi Pete, For me it's always best to have the cylinders and valve gear de-mountable as a unit. The first 7mm kit I built (Oakville Ivatt 2 6 2) had them fixed to the frames if I remember correctly, but that was the least of my problems with that kit. Talk about a baptism of fire! Ever since then I only build outside cylinders/valve gear to be de-mountable, either by design or modification. The Gladiator/David Andrews/Javelin method is quite good, albeit with 6 BA nuts and bolts which are over large. However, as long as they are not visible, why change them as the holes and slots are too large for smaller items. Cheers, Peter 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAD Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 However looking at my pics it would seem the rocker straddles the valve spindle. Overall I think the chassis bracket is too low. Pete Hi Pete,Regarding your comment on the valve rocker bracket, I don't think it's too low looking at this. I don't have the model to hand but will check it later. In any case, looking at your photo of the valve spindle on DoS, it is clear that the rocker lever connection to the spindle on the kit is much simplified and will require some scratch building to get it to cut the mustard (well spread it anyway). Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikitriki Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Hi Peter, You're right, the rocker mechanism is simplified. Without the adjusters top and bottom, the end of the rocker would be describing an arc, whereas the spindle motion is linear. In fact it is the one end of the adjusters which are attached to the valve spindle, and the other end is attached to the rocker only. Richard 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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