Things which are impossible to model

[Ian Smeeton]

I'd love to do London smog.

 

 

Like this?

 

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW020885

 

Regards

 

Ian

[PMP]

 

Replicating fog and mist is relatively easy. However it's genuinely dangerous using dry ice which gives the best effect. Smoke machines don't have the same fluidity of the medium and could leave a faint trace of oil across your layout. If you try dry ice, let someone know you're doing it, do a proper hazard analysis of how you're going to do it, its hazardous to health and wallet.

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/fog-in-the-forest/

[corneliuslundie]

I have seen one layout, last year at the Small Cardiff Show, which while not having falling rain gave a very effective impression of an industrial site on a wet day.

Thanks to those who mentioned moving water. It has been done but actual water appears not to be suitable.

A real London smog is easy a sheet in frosted glass in front of a non-existent layout.

I intentionally excluded movement created by humans - such as locomotive smoke and moving horse drawn vehicles - as my thoughts had centred around movement in the natural world.

There is already virtual reality - numerous train simulator programs.

A few years ago we were promised that there would soon be flexible displays which could be incorporated in clothes, but they don't seem to have happened. Such a fabric would ideal for a backscene. As suggested you would need to control brightness, but after all the sky is more similar to a screen than to a printed sheet.

One factor of course is the distance at which one views a model. In very rough terms at 4 mm/ft a real foot is equivalent to roughly 25 yards so you are probably seeing the front of the baseboard at 50 yards at least, and the back anything up to 75 yards further. Therefore some of the ground level movement I suggested would only be noticeable at the front of the layout, and much of it would not consciously be noticed at all, but it will still subconsciously affect our assessment of the realism of the scene.

And thanks to those who have suggested some useful dodges.

Jonathan

[eastglosmog]

Thanks to those who mentioned moving water. It has been done but actual water appears not to be suitable.

Jonathan

Problem with using real water is that you cannot scale down the surface tension.  If you could find a clear liquid with a suitable surface tension, it would evaporate very quickly!

[corneliuslundie]

Oddly enough the one layout I know of which has convincing water uses a liquid more viscous than water. But that is not to provide the ripples one sees on rivers and brooks, rather to allow the tide to rise and fall.

I wonder if a way of providing a ripple effect would be to use a rotating mask in front of a spotlight as they do on the stage. The spotlight beam would also have to be masked to fit the water.

We were talking about these topics again last night at club. One layout, "Up the line" (First World War, as in the current issue of NG&IMR), uses a 20 minutes sound loop. It was commented that there was one point where a sound was noted when it repeated but the rest was just background. 

A suggestion for specific sounds was simple circuits which one can buy which include a small speaker and can be programmed with several seconds of sound. They could be initiated with a push button on the panel, so a loco whistle to use before a loco starts off, loco shed doors opening rather noisily, sounds from inside a workshop, or even "Get your mitts off the layout" for use at exhibitions when grubby fingers get too close to one's precious layout.

Jonathan

[Talltim]

How would you do an ice breaking train ferry?

[Poggy1165]

An amazing thing to model, were it possible, would be a main line station, at night, in the steam age.

 

First I think it would have to be at least 7mm scale, which means a lot of space. Then you would need steam effects, difficult as already mentioned. The loud bark of exhausts as trains set off against the haunting silence, raising the echoes below the overall roofs. The gentle hissing of pilot engines against the stops. The sound of men chucking newspapers and parcels into vans. The occasional door slamming. Dim lighting. The odd train announcement. Above all, that peculiar smell of steam, oil, rotten fish and various other indescribable elements that these places seemed to have.

 

In the film, Billy Liar, towards the end, there's a scene with just such a station. It recaptures the "feel" for me, but I'm not sure it would for people too young to have experienced it.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Poggy1165

[BG John]

Like this?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4-99-inch-39PIN-HD-OLED-Display-Screen-RM69052-Drive-IC-720-RGB-1280-MIPI-DSI/32259340682.html

 

Smaller and considerably cheaper version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-1-5-inch-color-OLED-Display-screen-with-128x128-Resolution-SPI-Parallel-Interface-SSD1351-Controller/1461252182.html

 

Still needs additional electronics though.

 

I've launched the idea before, this type of display lends itself quite well for modelling large bill-boards, either large free-standing US types or those mounted to walls of buildings. A looped video or  power-point-like presentation of still images would do the trick. Best of all, one can choose one's own advertising preferences, like your club, a heritage railway you support or the community you live in.    Admittedly, it's only for modern image layouts (say from ~1980 onwards).

Certainly not like the first one, until the price comes down to about ⅒ of that . The second is a bit too small I think, although may be fine for a view through a doorway or window. There are a few video players around £10, that it may be possible to hack, with slightly bigger screens, but my skills aren't up to trying it yet.

 

I would like to know more about what could be done, so if anyone wants to try it, or report on what they've already done, I'd be interested to read it.

Edited July 8, 2017 by BG John

[tomparryharry]

I'd guess at dusk, on an incline. Locomotives and wagons stopping for brake pinning. The vernacular and spontaneity of the shunters. The yard lights just coming on. Not too much light, just a glow in the shunters cabin. Locomotives working against the collar, that sort of thing.

 

Ian.

[Chubber]

'Passengers' seated for all eternity on a platform bench, never changing the human mosaic that populates our stations.

 

Perhaps a boffin could rig up a servo to rotate two identical benches through the platform surface, one well occupied and one with a sad old git like me who is happy to sit all day on a platform, and when the passenger train stops at the platform hiding the bench it's flipped over accordingly, to leave just Billy-No-Mates there...so maybe it could be done after all?

 

Doug

Edited July 8, 2017 by Chubber

[BG John]

'Passengers' seated for all eternity on a platform bench, never changing the human mosaic that populates our stations.

 

Perhaps a boffin could rig up a servo to rotate two identical benches through the platform surface, one well occupied and one with a sad old git like me who is happy to sit all day on a platform, and when the passenger train stops at the platform hiding the bench it's flipped over accordingly, to leave just Billy-No-Mates there...so maybe it could be done after all?

 

Doug

Shame I'm not a boffin, but that's the sort of thing I've been thinking of, perhaps triggered by the bench being hidden by some hidden rolling stock, so the unrealistic movement isn't seen. An Arduino and a sensor, in addition to a servo, should do it. I'd actually thought of going further, where movement happens in stages, with people appearing and disappearing, and changing position, rather than just flipping between two states. It's on a long list of Arduino projects to play with!

[Chubber]

I thought an Arduino was a type of penguin or sumfin'!

 

Another contender for the 'now you see me, now you don't ' stuff could be the ticket collector in the little cabin at the gate....

 

Doug

[Kelly]

You could possibly have the driver rotating so a empty seat is left and then rotate the other cab seat to show he's changed cabs, etc.

 

That steam video posted earlier is certainly impressive. I'm sure there'd be a fair few council H&S people who'd do their nut at such things though, as nice as realistic smoke from steam and diesel would be.

[Branwell]

In another place (mid Wales) there would have been hawks circling above as clouds pass overhead and shadows pass across the fields.

 

The shadows of the clouds I think you coud do - either by way of something akin to flame effects that you used to get on gas fires (where there was a circle of thin metal that revolved over a light bulb) or possibly by way of some sort of moving belt up with shapes on it up against a lighting strip. Often thought about trying to do it.

[BG John]

I thought an Arduino was a type of penguin or sumfin'!

It's a miniature penguin, and they have the ability to make themselves invisible. They are also very easy to train, are very intelligent and like to please. Show them what you want them to do, and they'll happily do it perfectly every time, whether it's driving a train, or moving figures and objects around on the layout. Their ability to become invisible means that no even knows they're there.

[Black Marlin]

But a Tornado (FF to 3:30....):

 

 

There's something distressingly phallic, in an equine sort of way, about how that tornado descends from the clouds...

[HonestTom]

'Passengers' seated for all eternity on a platform bench, never changing the human mosaic that populates our stations.

 

Perhaps a boffin could rig up a servo to rotate two identical benches through the platform surface, one well occupied and one with a sad old git like me who is happy to sit all day on a platform, and when the passenger train stops at the platform hiding the bench it's flipped over accordingly, to leave just Billy-No-Mates there...so maybe it could be done after all?

 

Doug

 

I recall there used to be a Thomas set (I think in the Take-Along range) that did pretty much this, but mechanically. The platform was full of people, then when the engine came in you could push a button and the top of the platform would flip to be replaced with an identical-but-minus-passengers version. Unfortunately, the engine it came with was Mavis the quarry shunter, who in the stories literally never pulls passengers.

[The Johnster]

There's something distressingly phallic, in an equine sort of way, about how that tornado descends from the clouds...

 

Now, see, I've got that image in my head.  And I can't unget it...

[luckymucklebackit]

'Passengers' seated for all eternity on a platform bench, never changing the human mosaic that populates our stations.

 

Perhaps a boffin could rig up a servo to rotate two identical benches through the platform surface, one well occupied and one with a sad old git like me who is happy to sit all day on a platform, and when the passenger train stops at the platform hiding the bench it's flipped over accordingly, to leave just Billy-No-Mates there...so maybe it could be done after all?

 

Doug

 

Sounds like something Derek Meddings would be able to do, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2QFum90H9Q

[The Johnster]

Like this ?

 

 

Brit15

 

they don't make 'em like that anymore.

[Norm81]

The shadows of the clouds I think you coud do - either by way of something akin to flame effects that you used to get on gas fires (where there was a circle of thin metal that revolved over a light bulb) or possibly by way of some sort of moving belt up with shapes on it up against a lighting strip. Often thought about trying to do it.

I have ideas to do this, along with trying to get shadows to move throughout the day but that idea got complicated, quick.

[F-UnitMad]

There's something distressingly phallic, in an equine sort of way, about how that tornado descends from the clouds...

Now, see, I've got that image in my head.  And I can't unget it...

I was waiting for a Tornado aircraft...

[Thunderforge]

I was going to say the smell of steam and coal smoke, but these days you can buy scented oils in any flavour you can think of.

[E3109]

Often wondered if the 'next big thing' on layouts is moving hologram people, animals and so on. I bet it's possible too.

[JimC]

, uses a 20 minutes sound loop. It was commented that there was one point where a sound was noted when it repeated

The trick might be to have two devices, one with a 20 minute loop and the other say a 17 minute one, playing simultaneously through different speakers. It would be a very long time before it repeated.