Frog juicers for manual points?

[ash39]

Quick query I think - if I wanted to save the hassle and cost of having motors for easily reachable fiddle yard points that I could easily switch by hand, would a frog juicer be suitable for this application?

 

I can't see another way you could use electrofrog points on DCC without having some kind of polarity switch.

[RFS]

Nothing to stop you using a cheap, simple lever switch mounted next to the tie bar to operate it.  Given it's a fiddle yard I assume the location is non-scenic.  

 

One of these for example - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPDT-Straight-Hinge-Roller-Lever-Momentary-Micro-Switch-Lever-1x-5x-10x-240V-5A-/252368427579?var=&hash=item3ac2549a3b:m:mnP8umNQ7zpnC6A1M5U2j1g

[Crewlisle]

Quick query I think - if I wanted to save the hassle and cost of having motors for easily reachable fiddle yard points that I could easily switch by hand, would a frog juicer be suitable for this application?

 

I can't see another way you could use electrofrog points on DCC without having some kind of polarity switch.

 

There are many of you out there who are saying, "Here he goes again!" & he should be burnt at the stake as a heretic to the perceived mandatory fitting of polarity switches for DCC!

 

I have 30 Code 100 Peco Electrofrog points operated by Peco solenoid point motors with stud contact on mini panels for operating them on my DCC 00 gauge 'Crewlisle' & rely on blade contact for polarity of the frogs.  I have been exhibiting for 30 years & the number of point failures I have had over that time I can count on one hand.  All have been on sidings!

 

I say once again, Peco Code 100 points can be used straight out of the box with no additional wiring required!  It might be different for Code 75 as the blade contact area is smaller.

 

Peter 

[ash39]

Another reason I'm keen to keep it as simple as possible is I want to build a 2400x400mm fiddle yard board which can be rejigged to suit future layouts and operational requirements.

 

I currently use code 75 and will continue to on the scenic sections, but if code 100 points work out of the box I'd happily go down that route for simplicity. Absolute reliability is not a high priority anyway as I can't see me ever exhibiting a layout.

 

I may do a bit of testing with a couple of code 100 points!

[Ross34]

Quick query I think - if I wanted to save the hassle and cost of having motors for easily reachable fiddle yard points that I could easily switch by hand, would a frog juicer be suitable for this application?

 

 

Quick answer, Yes.

 

I use Gaugemaster DCC80 autofrogs - and they seem to work fine - doddle to install and if you don't object to paying a fiver a pop for 'em give 'em a go.

[terrysoham]

I have been helping redo the electrics on our club's 00 gauge layout which is dc and uses code 75 track. Eventually the layout called Wickham Market is intended to be our replacement exhibition layout for Thurston that we sold on a couple of years ago.

 

My comments below equally apply to a dcc operated layout.

 

The points in the storage area are all manually operated and, even after a few running sessions, it was obvious that some form of additional polarity switching was needed to save all the faffing around when the switch rail didn't make good electrical contact with the stock rail. Personally, I feel that an additional switch is essential to the good running of a layout. We used microminiature lever switches from Rapid at a cost of less than 50 pence per switch which are operated off the point's tie bar.

 

I admit that wiring up the switches was made more difficult because the points were already fitted. It would be much easier to do at an early stage before the points are fastened down to the baseboard. I absolutely hate having to make soldered joints under baseboards!

 

Regards

Edited July 24, 2017 by terrysoham

[ColinK]

On my exhibition layout I have Peco code 100 electrofrog points operated manually using bike spokes with a bent paperclip through the tiebar. Frog polarity is changed with frog juicers and they work really well.

[w124bob]

I'm lazy and inept so I vote for frog juicers, however if you are starting with blank boards and it's just the fiddle yard then it's cheaper and simpler to do a micro switch off the tiebar above the board.

[Mallard60022]

If I can do this then so can you!

'Adapt' the Code 75 Electrofrog Point as advised by Peco and the adaptation becomes a Dropper wire. This creates a much more reliable track power supply not relying on the blades and then use a surface mounted micro switch (50p each from Maplins?). Total work time about 45 minutes max. This involves some soldering and three wires; two track droppers and the frog wire. Really easy honestly.  I can supply a picture of mine if you want.

However at about £6, the DCC80 Autofrogs are easy to install and I'm about to do just that with some other 'adapted' points.

[Pete the Elaner]

I say once again, Peco Code 100 points can be used straight out of the box with no additional wiring required!  It might be different for Code 75 as the blade contact area is smaller.

 

Unless they have changed in the past few years, they are indeed different.

Last time I saw a code 100 point, it had small contact wipers attached to the switch rails which connect with the underside of the stock rails Throwing the point a few times scrapes the dirt from these thereby cleaning them up & keeping the connection good.

Code 75 pointwork does not have these, relying solely on the connection between the blade & stock rail.

[Pete the Elaner]

I admit that wiring up the switches was made more difficult because the points were already fitted. It would be much easier to do at an early stage before the points are fastened down to the baseboard. I absolutely hate having to make soldered joints under baseboards!

 

I'll second that. Working under baseboards is unpleasant. Much better to flip them over or hold them up on their side.

[DCB]

If it is a hidden area with no point motors  why not mount the switches on top of the  baseboard, I had to add polarity switches to code 100 electrofrog turnouts in the outside branch terminus normally covered by the "Rabbit Hutch," as the weather was getting to the contact tags.  

As the baseboard was very thick solid timber I used surface mounted miniature micro switches, 5 for £1 from Ebay  

" AC 125V 1A SPDT Subminiature Micro Lever Switch 5 Pcs SY E1Q7 Q4L5 W3P4 "  

Held in place with track pins.  Some people say you get what you pay for so I don't mind paying 20p each.   Probably wouldn't survive long on DCC but they are nice and neat.

[newbryford]

Easy to mount microswitches above board.

Make sure you get low torque versions, otherwise the over-centre spring on the point may not hold the microswitch.

 

 

The hole is for a point motor to be fitted later, but the switches work well with manual (finger) operation.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

 

[sb67]

If I can do this then so can you!

'Adapt' the Code 75 Electrofrog Point as advised by Peco and the adaptation becomes a Dropper wire. This creates a much more reliable track power supply not relying on the blades and then use a surface mounted micro switch (50p each from Maplins?). Total work time about 45 minutes max. This involves some soldering and three wires; two track droppers and the frog wire. Really easy honestly.  I can supply a picture of mine if you want.

However at about £6, the DCC80 Autofrogs are easy to install and I'm about to do just that with some other 'adapted' points.

Could you post a pic please? I'm interested to see how that's done.

Steve.

[The Bigbee Line]

I used the gaugemaster units on my "Tenterden Town Goods" . No adjustment required. In a fiddle yard and you have a fan arrangment instead of a ladder. i.e.1 into 2 into 4. You only need 1 juicer per row, with a little thought a juicer can work more than one point. .

[Mallard60022]

Easy to mount microswitches above board.

Make sure you get low torque versions, otherwise the over-centre spring on the point may not hold the microswitch.

 

DSCF2522c.jpg

 

The hole is for a point motor to be fitted later, but the switches work well with manual (finger) operation.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Yup, Micro Switches work as I mentioned earlier.

[shibushe]

DCC 80s. Quick, Simple, Cheap. For me anyway.

[Mallard60022]

DCC 80s. Quick, Simple, Cheap. For me anyway.

Absolutely. Installed three today and they are excellent. Took about half an hour including sorting some wire and a bit of soldering of course.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

Could you post a pic please? I'm interested to see how that's done.

Steve.

Apologies Steve, I didn't mean to ignore this. I'll try to show an adapted point asap but it is so simple. Follow the instructions on Brian Lambert's website for fitting droppers from the point having cut the little Peco wires to the frog. http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#On_1

Wire up from the the frog as well; I use green wire.  Those three wires are then attached to a choc blok or similar or soldered to  the DCC80 that has three little solder points.If you have a motor for the point fine then use one with frog polarity switch. If you want to use finger pokin or similar or a basic peco P11 motor for example, then these Autofrogs are fantasic and really easy to install. Bit more expensive than a Microswitch but he## of a lot quicker to sort out.

ATB

Phil

Edited August 8, 2017 by Mallard60022