can dc blow a sound chip

[roy h]

so after having sound chipped locos for a good few years i have finally had one blow.

 

the model in question is a Bachmann class 66 and was 32-725DS Class 66 diesel 66022 "Lafarge Charnwood" in EWS livery (DCC sound on board) V3.5 i have had this loco from new and all has been well until today.

 

i was giving the wheels a deep clean in a loco cradle  and was using a dc controller as i was getting to the last set of wheels around 10 seconds per set there was the tell tale puff of smoke that something had gone pop. now im thinking was this due to being used on dc or was it just its time to go.

i have managed to get a photo of where it has gone it also left a nice burn mark on the inside of the body

 

any advice of help appreciated thanks roy

[Silver Sidelines]

I guess you need to refer to a ESU Loksound manual (off the web).  Certainly my Lok 4 chips work well and produce sound on DC analogue.  I am sure that the Lok 3.5 was also designed to work on analogue but as supplied by Bachmann in some of their engines the CV values were changed so that out of the box the model would only run on digital.

 

Others will be more knowledgeable.

 

Regards

 

Ray

Edited August 20, 2017 by Silver Sidelines

[ELTEL]

Not sure of the answer.

 

Why are were you cleaning the loco wheels using DC

[newbryford]

You may have overloaded the decoder by creating excessive drag and resistance with your wheel cleaning.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[roy h]

thanks for the help and in response to the above.

 

silver sidelines i had a look through the manual and dc running was set

 

eltel and duch master  normally wheels are cleaned with a woodland scenics 4561 but one this occasion i had a few stubborn bits of crud to remove i had tried to use dcc but as the wheels took a while to start turning they keep hitting the dirty spots so started again. that's when i decided to use dc as i also had to clean up some older models for a freind so tried to kill 2 birds with one stone.

i had the loco upside down in a cradle and was using the peco wheel cleaners as i have not had to give them a proper clean for about 2 years and was using a gaugemaster rolling road to supply the power at about 80% had done about 3 models before i got to this one two were dc and one dcc then i started on this one.  all was well until the last set of wheels. as for the damage if you look at where e label has 33 just below it you can see where a chip has gone white when it burnt out. not to sure how i could have caused a short  as body was on and only was at the wheels making sure a was at both sides of the wheel set.

 

 

newbryford  i am hoping this is the case i was being gentle and trying to let the brushes do the work but every now and again a little bit of pressure was needed.

 

i been running dcc for many years and never had a problem like this i think this is what has threw me a bit. the loco was bought from new when it came out and is used a few hours each week when time and work allow. just trying to work out what and why as i have around 15 sound fitted locos so do not want to repeat this c**k up so might get a couple of gm60,s to do the suborn bits.

Edited August 21, 2017 by roy h

[roy h]

close up

[Albie the plumber]

close up

 

Now that it has actually been established that the chip has indeed 'blown up' it may be time to ask what you can do about it .

I'm sure that some members on this forum have sent their V3.5s or V4s back to ESU out of warranty for a  repair or replacement

There is a charge and the sum of £35.00 seems to ring a bell

[wiggy1]

That price went out the window long ago, its now 87 euro give or take the exchange rate plus postage there and back so cheeper to get a V4.0 from the UK.

Wiggy.

[tractor_37260]

Now that it has actually been established that the chip has indeed 'blown up' it may be time to ask what you can do about it .

I'm sure that some members on this forum have sent their V3.5s or V4s back to ESU out of warranty for a  repair or replacement

There is a charge and the sum of £35.00 seems to ring a bell

 

I maybe be wrong, but I think ESU may have withdrawn support for the V3.5, they "may" offset a part of the cost of supplying a V4 as a replacement.............

Edited August 21, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Albie the plumber]

I maybe well be wrong, but I think ESU may have withdrawn support for the V3.5, they "may" offset a part of the cost of supplying a V4 as a replacement.............

 

They're starting to become old hat I guess 

Still got an SWD V3.5 in one of my 37s coming up to ten years old now , still sounds great too .

Doesn't look good for anyone for with a V3.5 if that is the case .

Shame really .

[newbryford]

They're starting to become old hat I guess 

Still got an SWD V3.5 in one of my 37s coming up to ten years old now , still sounds great too .

Doesn't look good for anyone for with a V3.5 if that is the case .

Shame really .

 

If you tried to get support for a 10 year old radio/TV/fridge/other electronic goods, then I think you may be 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Albie the plumber]

If you tried to get support for a 10 year old radio/TV/fridge/other electronic goods, then I think you may be 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Yes, a combi boiler comes to mind   

[newbryford]

Yes, a combi boiler comes to mind 

 

So if I sent my 10 year old combi boiler back to the manufacturer, they'd sort it out for £35.........?

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Phil Bullock]

Sorry to see this!

 

I have always had excellent support from ESU, if you drop them a line they will tell you what they can do, their service charge has always been much cheaper than a new chip with the few I have had to send back.

 

Just a note on wheel cleaning on DCC - its worth killing the inertia and sound on the loco if poss to avoid the slow run up process when using electrically powered gizmos

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Albie the plumber]

So if I sent my 10 year old combi boiler back to the manufacturer, they'd sort it out for £35.........?

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Sorry, No, was agreeing with your first post .

Most combi manufacturers wouldn't want to know after 5 years .

Although some have a ten year guarantee .

But they are a tad more expensive than a sound chip .

 

That should worry people still shelling out the best part of £100 for a V 3.5 on the auction sites 

[Albie the plumber]

Sorry to see this!

 

I have always had excellent support from ESU, if you drop them a line they will tell you what they can do, their service charge has always been much cheaper than a new chip with the few I have had to send back.

 

 

 

I was under that impression but it seems that the price for this service has now gone through the roof .

Maybe the author of the original post should indeed drop ESU a line and find out for sure .

Maybe we'll all be wiser   

[Yardman]

It is extremely unlikely you have damaged the Loksound by applying DC. It's more likely spikes due to bad contact during wheel cleaning have corrupted the decoder. Put it on the programming track and check for a corruped address. It may have reverted to address 3, put in a random address or set your speed table to zero. You can do a decoder reset; set CV8 to 8 (read the Manual). It won’t change the sound files. Personally I always disable DC operation, it just causes problems.

[Suzie]

The LokSoaund v3.5 has an audio amplifier that is rated for 5V DC, on DCC it is pushed way beyond that to just below track voltage, but on analogue DC with a traditional transformer based controller it is pushed to around 25V DC which is really asking for trouble. I would strongly advise against using a LokSound v3.5 or earlier (V4 should be OK) on DC - it will just be a matter of time before the smoke comes out. The use of this amplifier is why you have to use special high impedance (32Ω) speakers with these decoders rather than the normal (8Ω) speakers.

 

I guess that ESU were happy to sell these decoders as suitable for DC because they could manage the warranty returns - but for end users who have to pay for repairs it is an expensive game. I think there are people around who can replace the failed amplifier for you and get the sound back which may be cost effective specially if you have an expensive sound project in it.

[Nigelcliffe]

It is extremely unlikely you have damaged the Loksound by applying DC. It's more likely spikes due to bad contact during wheel cleaning have corrupted the decoder. Put it on the programming track and check for a corruped address. It may have reverted to address 3, put in a random address or set your speed table to zero. You can do a decoder reset; set CV8 to 8 (read the Manual). It won’t change the sound files. Personally I always disable DC operation, it just causes problems.

 

Caution on "reset" - it depends on the project loaded onto the decoder.    A reset won't delete the sound files, but it may change so many CV's that its a pretty slow process to get the sounds back. 

 

The reason being that "reset" used to be "back to factory gate" rather than "back to how it left the sound installer's bench".   That was changed part way through the V3.5's life, but many earlier V3.5 projects will reset to "factory gate".  

 

 

Therefore, I would suggest just trying to program to a known address, then trying to set the speed table to sensible and see what works.  If forced into "reset", then be aware of need to reconstruct the CV's for how the sound slots are mapped to different function keys.  Its possible without any documentation, but its a slow process.   If the original sound supplier can give a CV list, then its a lot easier. 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[PaulCheffus]

So if I sent my 10 year old combi boiler back to the manufacturer, they'd sort it out for £35.........?

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Hi

 

We could still get parts for our 13 year old combi boiler however it has now given up the ghost and has been replaced as it wasn't cost effective to repair.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

 

We could still get parts for our 13 year old combi boiler however it has now given up the ghost and has been replaced as it wasn't cost effective to repair.

 

 

Going way off topic - I bought a new balanced flue boiler just before all the "you must have a combi because its more efficient" stuff came in. I wasn't confident that the new tech would be reliable. The boiler is now 17 years old, working just as it did on day-1, needing no repairs whatsoever.

 

- Nigel

[Luke Piewalker]

from the South West Digital website:

 

Exchange decoders / Lokprogrammer

Defect ESU decoders or LokProgrammer devices which are older than 3 years after date of purchase can be exchanged against the latest decoder, respectively LokProgrammer in return of an exchange free. The exchange fee is valid for either defect decoders or also functionable "OEM" decoders.

The exchange fee will be also charged for decoders or LokProgrammers sent in without proof of purchase.

The exchange fee is only valid for the decoders mentioned below:

LokPilot LokPilot (H0, M4) V1.0 - V4.0 Exchange fee 20,23 € LokPilot (N) V2.0 - V4.0 Exchange fee 28,56 € LokPilot XL V1.0 - V3.0 Exchange fee 49,00 € LokSound LokSound (H0, N) V1.0 - V3.5 Exchange fee 87,61 € LokSound XL V1.0 - V3.5 Exchange fee 162,91 €

[Albie the plumber]

Going way off topic - I bought a new balanced flue boiler just before all the "you must have a combi because its more efficient" stuff came in. I wasn't confident that the new tech would be reliable. The boiler is now 17 years old, working just as it did on day-1, needing no repairs whatsoever.

 

- Nigel

 

Wise choice !

More money to spend on sound chips !

Edited August 22, 2017 by Albie the plumber

[roy h]

funny that combi boilers were brought up hear i also had that misfortune last year when one morning turned shower on left it for a min as usual and then jumped in. wow that woke me up and the rest of the house.

 

as for the chip i have dropped esu a email and see what i get back.

[Albie the plumber]

funny that combi boilers were brought up hear i also had that misfortune last year when one morning turned shower on left it for a min as usual and then jumped in. wow that woke me up and the rest of the house.

 

as for the chip i have dropped esu a email and see what i get back.

 

I fit and service the bloody things for a living .

At least it finances this great hobby of ours .

Hope you get something positive back from ESU .

Maybe you could let us know how you got on .

 

Albie