Ruston Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Is this a variant not covered? The joint in the cab side sheets seems to differ: The Nim. I think you're looking at a completely different type there. That looks to be much smaller than those that Hattons are doing. Perhaps a 12-inch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 cab sheets look normal but the dumb buffers are very prominent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonetown Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 The middle wheels have been noted and will be painted on the production models, this also applies to the P Class as well. As has been mentioned, following the change of NCB No.23 to No. 6, there's not currently a model featuring the square front windows. Thanks for clarification, Dave! I forgot about the option with square windows. But on the other hand that means, there is just one option for round front windows, which results into the windows being much to high on the locos with low tanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) Here's one I mentioned earlier http://www.gnsra.org.uk/images/gallery/RH04__Aberdeen_Gas_Works_No._3_733.jpg http://www.gnsra.org.uk/gnsra_gallery_docks_2.htm note the second photie with the oval windows at the front Edited October 24, 2017 by Caledonian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Here's one I mentioned earlier http://www.gnsra.org.uk/images/gallery/RH04__Aberdeen_Gas_Works_No._3_733.jpg Models where figures are placed in unnatural positions look just plain wrong. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Models where figures are placed in unnatural positions look just plain wrong. Bernard You mean like this one? http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/IMG_5906.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayEllis Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This is possibly the most delightful model related news I've had the pleasure of reading in a long time, my thanks go to Hatton's for deciding to make these. So many of them seem so very, very tempting... Guess we need to find some suitable prototypes has been mentioned, following the change of NCB No.23 to No. 6, there's not currently a model featuring the square front windows. If you know of any suitable prototypes then you're more than welcome to send them over to us via email using ideas@hattons.co.uk Dave A few suggestions, all Scottish. No.2292 of 1951, NCB No.21, Kinneil Colliery circa 1974 fits the description. Square windows (unglazed), solid back cab and the old style over-hanging roof. NCB green livery, but a little more elaborate decor on the tank: 'NATIONAL COAL BOARD No.21 SCOTTISH NORTH AREA' No.2259 of 1949, NCB No.30, Frances Colliery, Fife mid 1970s. Solid back cab, square windows. Livery same as NCB No.6. No.2296 of 1950, NCB No.17 has square windows, and the later style cab roof (the one that doesn't over-hang the sides), Bedlay Colliery, mid 1970's. No idea on colour (black and white photo) however I assume it's the same unlined green as the others I've mentioned. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) This is possibly the most delightful model related news I've had the pleasure of reading in a long time, my thanks go to Hatton's for deciding to make these. So many of them seem so very, very tempting... A few suggestions, all Scottish. No.2292 of 1951, NCB No.21, Kinneil Colliery circa 1974 fits the description. Square windows (unglazed), solid back cab and the old style over-hanging roof. NCB green livery, but a little more elaborate decor on the tank: 'NATIONAL COAL BOARD No.21 SCOTTISH NORTH AREA' No.2259 of 1949, NCB No.30, Frances Colliery, Fife mid 1970s. Solid back cab, square windows. Livery same as NCB No.6. No.2296 of 1950, NCB No.17 has square windows, and the later style cab roof (the one that doesn't over-hang the sides), Bedlay Colliery, mid 1970's. No idea on colour (black and white photo) however I assume it's the same unlined green as the others I've mentioned. Unfortunately 2292/51 and 2259/49 are, like the originally announced No.23, members of the 'Fife Area Amended Design' which have features not covered by Hattons options. See my post 332 for the details. For info the locos were: 2257, 2259, 2260, 2261, 2262 all built 1949 2292 of 1951 2357 of 1955 These are the seven locos mentioned in Brotchies book on the Wemyss Private Railway' , but there were other locos built to this design, some of which have been mentioned on this thread. As said AB 2296/50 has the curved eave cab. Unfortunately Hattons have already said this is not possible from their tooling. https://www.flickr.com/photos/60699808@N06/8973646924/ Edited October 25, 2017 by JeremyC 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Unfortunately 2292/51 and 2259/49 are, like the originally announced No.23, members of the 'Fife Area Amended Design' which have features not covered by Hattons options. See my post 332 for the details. For info the locos were: 2257, 2259, 2260, 2261, 2262 all built 1949 2292 of 1951 2357 of 1955 These are the seven locos mentioned in Brotchies book on the Wemyss Private Railway' , but there were other locos built to this design, some of which have been mentioned on this thread. no21.jpg no30.jpg As said AB 2296/50 has the curved eave cab. Unfortunately Hattons have already said this is not possible from their tooling. https://www.flickr.com/photos/60699808@N06/8973646924/ Nice photies - and they rather put arguments on other threads about the precise colour of LMS liveries into a certain perspective. I know no.30 is bright green with yellow letters... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Incidentally that derailed LNER 12 ton van behind No.21 crops up in a number of other photies. When I first came across it my immediate reaction was oops, but it looks as though it may have been a bit of a fixture Edited October 25, 2017 by Caledonian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozzer models Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Incidentally that derailed LNER 12 ton van behind No.21 crops up in a number of other photies. When I first came across it my immediate reaction was oops, but it looks as though it may have been a bit of a fixturemost likely used as a buffer stop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 One note of caution on all these Scottish suggestions. The Farish A2 comes in 4 varieties- Blue Peter (which has understandably just about sold out) plus three single-chimneyed Scottish examples, which can be bought at very generously discounted prices. No English example of the class has been done. Perhaps the lack of sales of the others is a consequence of too many models for a limited geographical spread released simultaneously. Lovely though these Barclay examples are, would it not be wise to spread them across releases 2,3, 4 and perhaps 5, with examples from elsewhere mixed in, to avoid a glut of attractive models that don't fit enough modellers' geography appearing all at the same time? Just a thought. Les (seriously considering a second pre-order, but not one with an identity that is too area-specific) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) most likely used as a buffer stop Yeah, that was my thought too, Might make an interesting feature on a layout Edited October 27, 2017 by Caledonian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 One note of caution on all these Scottish suggestions. The Farish A2 comes in 4 varieties- Blue Peter (which has understandably just about sold out) plus three single-chimneyed Scottish examples, which can be bought at very generously discounted prices. No English example of the class has been done... I'd suggest that Hattons have up to the minute commercial insight, sufficient that this not be a concern. That they are testing the water with a Scottish design, I see as very encouraging. This is the first 'all Scottish' subject to get a RTR OO model to 'current standard'... Hoping for the 'build it and they will come' effect. There are some truly beautiful subjects among the Scottish company designs, some of them surely will 'fly'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I'd suggest that Hattons have up to the minute commercial insight, sufficient that this not be a concern. That they are testing the water with a Scottish design, I see as very encouraging. This is the first 'all Scottish' subject to get a RTR OO model to 'current standard'... Hoping for the 'build it and they will come' effect. There are some truly beautiful subjects among the Scottish company designs, some of them surely will 'fly'? It isn't the "Scottish design" that I'm sounding the note of caution on. Just a note that too many simultaneous releases of locos that only operated in Scotland would likely spread available cash too thinly. Plenty of AB locos worked at locations outside Scotland. Releasing three that all say "Scottish North Area" simultaneously would split sales between them if issued simultaneously - as would a pair that both said "No.3 Area Northumberland and Cumberland Division", or three that said "Corby Ironstone" etc. Hattons have produced an excellent geographical and chronological spread with the first release. I have plenty of faith in their commercial acumen and look forward to receiving my pre-order, which might still become a non-matching pair- my locos run with nameplates but not owner names. Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Yeah, that was my thought too, Might make an interesting feature on a wayout "Wayout" ??? It isn't the "Scottish design" that I'm sounding the note of caution on. Just a note that too many simultaneous releases of locos that only operated in Scotland would likely spread available cash too thinly. Plenty of AB locos worked at locations outside Scotland. Releasing three that all say "Scottish North Area" simultaneously would split sales between them if issued simultaneously - as would a pair that both said "No.3 Area Northumberland and Cumberland Division", or three that said "Corby Ironstone" etc. That's what many folks said about Hornby's 'Huntley and Palmers' Peckett and they are proposing one of the next run of Pecketts being in 'Works Photo' finish, a livery which it probably never carried in service. People seem to think that 4mm unlettered/un-numbered locos will not sell but surely the argument is different for industrial types. Heljan seem to produce their 7mm locos without numbers - do they sell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Could someone please tell me when Barclay would have started the manufacture of the engines that Hattons is producing? I know the curved cab side is earlier, just not sure by how much. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 "Wayout" ??? That's what many folks said about Hornby's 'Huntley and Palmers' Peckett and they are proposing one of the next run of Pecketts being in 'Works Photo' finish, a livery which it probably never carried in service. People seem to think that 4mm unlettered/un-numbered locos will not sell but surely the argument is different for industrial types. Heljan seem to produce their 7mm locos without numbers - do they sell? I don't know if locos without a specific identity will sell. It depends on who is buying them. Collectors probably wouldn't want them as they're not showy enough but I think modellers would appreciate them. There is always "it's my trainset and I'll run what I like" and a minority of people who build preservation layouts but I think that most of us build our layouts to reflect a time period and area, even if they are not specific real places, so you can have a main line engine with an identity that really existed , say a GWR pannier tank, and run it on a fictitous layout that represents a GWR line. The loco's identity doesn't tie it to one specific place as a main line company would have had hundreds of miles of track and dozens of stations, yards, sheds etc.and locos of a particular type would have been used all over the sytem. These industrial identities really do tie the engines to one place. The CPC liveried Barclay for example. That was only ever seen wearing that livery working the CPC sidings at Trafford Park, so unless you are actually modelling the CPC sidings at Trafford Park it isn't as believable as the main line example. But if you have no specific identity on your Barclay then it could operate on a layout that is set almost anywhere in the UK between 1921 and the mid 1980s. Could someone please tell me when Barclay would have started the manufacture of the engines that Hattons is producing? I know the curved cab side is earlier, just not sure by how much. Cheers, David 1921 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I don't know if locos without a specific identity will sell... My guess, they wiil sell, but probably significantly less well compared to those with an identity. But given that the Hattons' representative has posted that the tampo applied letters, numbers, etc. will be easily removeable, they can be made location neutral by anyone wishing to do so. (This is a feature I have long enjoyed on Bachmann's product, which is as good as un-numbered thanks to the easily 'washed off' tampo printing.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 "Wayout" ??? Layout, Layout... comes from rushing out suddenly [work being the curse of the modelling classes]. Using a dead van as a buffer stop could be an unusual feature, though I suppose it would probably need a grubby red flag of something hung on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 That's what many folks said about Hornby's 'Huntley and Palmers' Peckett and they are proposing one of the next run of Pecketts being in 'Works Photo' finish, a livery which it probably never carried in service. People seem to think that 4mm unlettered/un-numbered locos will not sell but surely the argument is different for industrial types. Heljan seem to produce their 7mm locos without numbers - do they sell? Two comments in reply. -The Huntley & Palmer's Peckett was one of three liveries released. My point was that too many SIMULTANEOUS releases tied to one area would take sales from each other. -Secondly many industrial locos were supplied with no individual owner's lettering as the need to advertise the owner wasn't felt necessary. The identity would be a number and/or nameplate if any were needed. Bringing this back to the Barclay, the red "Katie" and the lined green "Coronation" are very suitable for an easy identity change - all that is needed here is a new nameplate to go over the printed one. "Fina" would be an easy change by covering up the logo with a nameplate. Les 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Just a note BGCD No1 as preserved has a 26D shed plate attached. AFAIK The then Bury Transport Museum acquired a number of these from Bury Depot, and I remember MSC 32,70, NWGB1, MEA no1 , 945, Planet and Simplex all wore them in the 70’s/80’s at some stage before largely disappearing again. Le's hope the Hatton's model doesn't have that feature. Industrial locos didn't have shed plates. Edited October 27, 2017 by Respite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 One of the magazines - Steam Railway? at some time in the past was listing preserved locos. (I seem to recall there were no spotting books for them at that time). They came up with a rather clever adaption of the BR shed code list, amended to cover preservation sites, and a number of the sites actually adopted the idea and fitted shedplates to their locos. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Incidentally that derailed LNER 12 ton van behind No.21 crops up in a number of other photies. When I first came across it my immediate reaction was oops, but it looks as though it may have been a bit of a fixture Seeing as its been mentioned a few times, I thought I'd give the van a brief moment of glory in a picture of its own. Edited October 28, 2017 by JeremyC 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Is that Dave Franks' new bufferstop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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