Class A4 4-6-2 in O Gauge from Hatton's

[PeterStiles]

I'm disappointed in my new A4, that it completely fails to pull three hatton's coaches round my set track test layout :( It managed one coach "ok" (if not at something you'd call "speed")

 

Should I just get 6 yards of flexi and try it in a straight line?

Should I give up and put the train in the display cabinet?

 

It'll be a couple of years before I can get a wide-radius track running in the garden and it would be nice to see it running before 2024.

 

 

[Kickstart]

Mine arrived today.

 

Hopefully be able to put it on some suitable track tomorrow

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

[Keith Turbutt]

On 29/11/2022 at 10:55, PeterStiles said:

I'm disappointed in my new A4, that it completely fails to pull three hatton's coaches round my set track test layout :( It managed one coach "ok" (if not at something you'd call "speed")

 

Should I just get 6 yards of flexi and try it in a straight line?

Should I give up and put the train in the display cabinet?

 

It'll be a couple of years before I can get a wide-radius track running in the garden and it would be nice to see it running before 2024.

 

 

Hi,

 

It seems I have been lucky with my one.

Please see this YouTube link

 

https://youtu.be/pcs8ndg8Fuo

 

To be fair it only managed this train on dead level and stalled on al slight gradient.

I subsequently had it running comfortably on an indoor test track with 6 coaches on a tighter radius.

 

[UP 4000]

On 29/11/2022 at 10:55, PeterStiles said:

I'm disappointed in my new A4, that it completely fails to pull three hatton's coaches round my set track test layout :( It managed one coach "ok" (if not at something you'd call "speed")

 

Should I just get 6 yards of flexi and try it in a straight line?

Should I give up and put the train in the display cabinet?

 

It'll be a couple of years before I can get a wide-radius track running in the garden and it would be nice to see it running before 2024.

 

 

I had similar issues with Sir Nigel Gresley, now coming up to 2 years since bought it, struggled with 6 Dapol/Lionheart MK1's and these run very free compared to the Hatton's teaks. I even ran a Dapol 08 behind to push things on a little, I was convinced it was motor issue especially after going to Hatton's to buy more "toys" (6 hour round trip for me) which I asked them about and one of the new "toys" was 4472 Flying Scotsman.

Basic testing between the A3 and A4 using an old Guagemaster series D for OO which was way under powered, the A3 out performed poor old Nige.

So disassembly and clean up and oiling of main drivers and motion until it felt smooth happened,

yes better, but not by much.

I use DCC, ESU for everything so the A4 was fitted with a Loksound L and ran on a ESU ECoS 50010,

Still struggled with 6 Dapol MK 1's yet a Class 37 did'nt know they were there.

Months past a Loksound L was purchased for the A3, a ESU ECoS 50210 was also purchased and a rake of 8 Hatton's Teaks acquired over that time.

The ECoS was cranked up, test track layout out, the Class 50 hauled a full brake and the rake of 8 Teaks with ease, so next was the A3, 4472, pulled them quite happily, I think the A3 needs a bit more weight in her she was slipping a bit, so while everything was set up I got Nige out, and,

Faultless ran the Teaks as well as the A3.

I'm new to the O gauge scene, less than 2 years and still learning, this was my experience with the A3 and A4, and through this don't discount them just yet, for what they are they are very power hungry, my Heljan 37 and 50 both twin motor can haul the same load on a lesser powered controller compared to the A3 and A4.

So after this long winded story, a good clean, oil, free running and a powerful controller,

Fingers crossed she works for you.

 

[Keith Turbutt]

13 hours ago, UP 4000 said:

I think the A3 needs a bit more weight in her she was slipping a bit

 

Interesting to hear your comment about the A3 slipping as I can't get my A4 to slip. This could be a problem if it stalls as there could be a risk of motor burnout if the power isn't shut off quickly. The A4 does seem very heavy. Is the A3 lighter?

[Hilux5972]

2 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Is the A3 lighter?

I can’t see that being the case. In theory it’s the same chassis so only body weight should be different. 

[Kickstart]

Hattons list the weight of the A3 at 3390g and the A4 at 3400g - but that is with packaging.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[UP 4000]

7 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Interesting to hear your comment about the A3 slipping as I can't get my A4 to slip. This could be a problem if it stalls as there could be a risk of motor burnout if the power isn't shut off quickly. The A4 does seem very heavy. Is the A3 lighter?

Both do slip under load but not by much, 8 Teaks have a fair bit of weight to them, but starting them and dragging them up to speed is fine, there's just a little something, it's hard to describe but I can hear a change of note, they not spinning out of control just I suppose half a turn grabbing the track once in a while.

This could be down to me, it's something I can hear but as I don't have a layout as such, more of a test loop I put down as and when I can which isn't often it's possible due to lack of running.

The pair have only been out once this year and I was happy Sir Nige can do a bit of haulage.

 

If I remember Hornby Magazine done a review on the A4 and they also reported the A4's lacked power, It's on youtube somewhere I'll try and find a link.

Edited December 1, 2022 by UP 4000
spelling

[UP 4000]

My mistake, not youtube, Key model world,

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/hattons-o-gauge-gresley-a4

[Kickstart]

Had my A4 running tonight.

 

Runs very nicely at speed, even with half a dozen coaches behind (Dapol mk1 for the test run). Occasional click, mostly on curves.

 

At low speed with no load it jerks. Not checked exactly, but seems to be about every ~3 turns of the wheels. With a load it wouldn’t pull away. Just juddering. I pushed it up to a reasonable speed and then it ran nicely.

 

This was running on DC

 

Looks very nice though!

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

 

[Kickstart]

Hiya

 

The A4 running

 

 

 

All the best

 

Katy

[brynna79]

@Kickstart Impressive work on the layout to date.  It certainly, doesn't look O Gauge for the space that it is fitted into.  Thanks for sharing.

 

I see that a large number have now sold out as well.  Wish I had acted when I was mulling over whether to get one or not. 

Cheers

Edited December 2, 2022 by brynna79

[Kickstart]

10 minutes ago, brynna79 said:

@Kickstart Impressive work on the layout to date.  It certainly, doesn't look O Gauge for the space that it is fitted into.  Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Not my layout I am afraid. The loop runs underneath a 16mm narrow gauge layout.

 

As to the A4, I like them but the chances I will never have space to run one on myself properly. But it can look pretty on a shelf. I possibly have space for a smaller O gauge layout.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Art Dent]

I took my replacement A4 to my local O-Gauge Club to test it.

 

They were most accommodating and she ran without a hitch straight out of the box.

 

Started running her gently, light engine, then gradually ramped up the speed until it was running at a scale 110 mph.

 

Tackled curved points, etc without a problem.

 

 

The club then suggested some coaches and attached 5 Teaks.  Again, she ran without a problem for a total "running in" time of about 20-25 mins.

 

Then, the Iron Horse threw a shoe!

 

Coming around a curve (with a curved point) she lost the driver's side front pony truck wheel, losing the small plastic "washer" in the process (which we didn't find).

 

Earlier in this thread, someone had posted that the wheels were "wrong' and suggested replacing them.

 

Rather than 'Araldite' the wheel onto the existing shaft, I thought I'd explore this possibility.

 

Can someone post a link to the replacements (with an appropriate axle if not included) for the front pony truck?  Would the wheels be a 'push fit' or would they be secured with grub screws?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Art

 

[Hope I've managed to post the YouTube clip correctly.  Now sorted - YouTube clip should be embedded! ]

 

Many thanks to the friendly and accommodating folks at http://www.sheffieldogaugegroup.org.uk/ 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Art Dent

[Bucoops]

7 minutes ago, Art Dent said:

I took my replacement A4 to my local O-Gauge Club to test it.

 

They were most accommodating and she ran without a hitch straight out of the box.

 

Started running her gently, light engine, then gradually ramped up the speed until it was running at a scale 110 mph.

 

Tackled curved points, etc without a problem.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8Z_s9HDp9tc

 

The club then suggested some coaches and attached 5 Teaks.  Again, she ran without a problem for a total "running in" time of about 20-25 mins.

 

Then, the Iron Horse threw a shoe!

 

Coming around a curve (with a curved point) she lost the driver's side front pony truck wheel, losing the small plastic "washer" in the process (which we didn't find).

 

Earlier in this thread, someone had posted that the wheels were "wrong' and suggested replacing them.

 

Rather than 'Araldite' the wheel onto the existing shaft, I thought I'd explore this possibility.

 

Can someone post a link to the replacements (with an appropriate axle if not included) for the front pony truck?  Would the wheels be a 'push fit' or would they be secured with grub screws?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Art

 

[Hope I've managed to post the YouTube clip correctly.  If not, the 'label' is 8Z_s9HDp9tc.  Looks like I haven't, but the link works.  Don't know how to include a YouTube video as the 'Other Media' > Insert Image from URL link doesn't seem to work. ]

 

Your link works for me. It does look the part, such a shame they seem to be so fragile.

[Art Dent]

1 minute ago, Bucoops said:

 

Your link works for me. It does look the part, such a shame they seem to be so fragile.

 

Managed to figure it out - use the 'Share' feature for your video!

 

Post now has the link and the video!

 

I should have taken a second video with it pulling the rake of Teaks!

 

Such simple things.

 

Art

Edited December 12, 2022 by Art Dent

[Art Dent]

Are the correct wheels these ....

 

Slaters 7838G

 

If so, how are they secured to the axle - push fit or grub screw?

 

Art

[Bucoops]

Assuming the right diameter axle, they attach by countersunk screws. They are the correct size for the front bogie.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Looking at Hattons tonight and all the cut price A4’s have sold out. All they have now are damaged second hand ones for sale.

[Bucoops]

7 minutes ago, Adrian Stevenson said:

Looking at Hattons tonight and all the cut price A4’s have sold out. All they have now are damaged second hand ones for sale.

 

At more than they were selling the new ones for which is amusing.

[Bucoops]

I also wonder if they are doing the same as with the 66s - let them "sell out" then put a few more on, so it doesn't look like they've got tons of them.

[Art Dent]

1 hour ago, Adrian Stevenson said:

Looking at Hattons tonight and all the cut price A4’s have sold out. All they have now are damaged second hand ones for sale.

 

Yes, they'd sold out of the £299/£329 new A4s over a week/10 days ago.

 

I looked in case my replacement A4 had problems running and had to itself be replaced.

 

Turns out (apart from throwing a shoe - see my earlier post today) I seem to have got a good one (okay - so the windscreen on the fireman's side was stuck on with only a bit of spit and hope and the one of the tender doors [with two ridiculosly small 'nubs' to attach it to the tender] also fell off) as it ran straight out of the box with no coupling rod/crank pin issues that I've heard of.  Plus this one had a fall plate and a dummy coal load - but was missing the valance pipe and running-board support brackets.  Mind you, it did have the shiny tread plates over the cylinders and these were actually stuck on this time!  Mind you, I'm not convinced that these were shiny after the initial locos for the Jubilee Trains [Silver Link, Quicksilver, Silver King and Silver Fox].  Most pics I have been able to find seem to indicate that these were black (or very grubby) and not polished stainless steel.

 

Makes you wonder who (if anyone) is employed in Heljan's QC Department (if indeed they even have one)!

 

@Bucoops

 

I emailed Slaters and they came straight back saying the same as you - secured with a countersunk screw.  £18.50 per axle - so £37 to fix a problem with a brand-new loco that has run for less than 30 mins total.

 

Just need to replace the plastic washer that got lost when Aussie went off the rails.  Any ideas?

 

Art

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Art Dent

[Hal Nail]

10 hours ago, Art Dent said:

Makes you wonder who (if anyone) is employed in Heljan's QC Department (if indeed they even have one)!

This was a commission so we don't know if any QC was specified and paid for by Hattons.

 

I'm sure both parties will have taken something away from this. I suspect the A3, A4 and coaches must have lost money and even if Heljan delivered exactly to the agreed spec, its hardly been good for their reputation.

 

 

[Art Dent]

9 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

This was a commission so we don't know if any QC was specified and paid for by Hattons.

 

I'm sure both parties will have taken something away from this. I suspect the A3, A4 and coaches must have lost money and even if Heljan delivered exactly to the agreed spec, its hardly been good for their reputation.

 

 

 

Who in their right mind would risk their reputation by commissioning something to be made by another firm and NOT put any QC in place?

 

Or who in their right mind would accept a commission from another company and risk their reputation by NOT QC-ing their product before dispatch?

 

Beggars belief that either Hattons or Heljan would do that (but seemingly one or both parties have!)

 

Hattons have replied saying that they are out of stock of the loco and don't have any spares and have offered a return/full refund as the loco is within warranty. 

 

Art

[Art Dent]

21 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I also wonder if they are doing the same as with the 66s - let them "sell out" then put a few more on, so it doesn't look like they've got tons of them.

 

I presume you are meaning the Hattons Originals OO-Gauge 66's?  There are no new Hattons Originals 66's on the site at the moment.

 

There are lots of 'used' locos with one bogie and cardan shaft as separate items to the main loco (i.e. detached!) plus other loose parts!

 

What do Heljan use for glue - spit & hope??

 

Art

Edited December 13, 2022 by Art Dent