Class A4 4-6-2 in O Gauge from Hatton's

[djparkins]

On 21/09/2022 at 10:35, rmweb4468 said:

I have just reassembled a Hattons 7mm  A4 which I bought used from them The driving wheels had all come off and lots of parts were damaged or missing - Hattons were very help full in replacing these

After a few minutes of running in one of the driving wheels came off again which had been re attached using very strong araldite  The axles just push into a blind hole which is clearly not adequate Every wheel manufacturer I know of uses a screw

The Hattons  website has a lot of these A4's and the A3 also in various states of wheel loss

If You have been tempted to buy one of these beware

The only answer to this that I can see is to replace the driving wheels at a cost of £75 on top of the £52 already spent

 

I can quite see your frustration, but given that the cost of a DJH/Piercy A4 kit without motor and wheels is now up to over £800, then even if you spend £150.00 on wheels and metal fittings to replace the plastic parts, and improve the valve gear fixings, you are still going to come out of it with a top link loco for a fraction of that cost. And the bodies of the locos [both A3 and A4], and the tenders, are really quite good. it's the same with the Hattons Gresley coaches. If you can get a coach for £105-£110 or around that, rebuild the underframe with accurate parts, and replace those truly awful bogies [the wheels are quite OK IMHO], then you've still got yourself a pretty good coach on the cheap.

 

David Parkins

www.djparkins.com

[spamcan61]

Even cheaper now...

 

 

[HereticUK]

With the sale on a Hattons now, I might buy both the A3 and the A4... They look like lovely models, but to read the forums here, it seems that it's almost 50/50 as to whether you get a good one or a disaster piece.

Is it truly so bad? This question really holds me back from making any purchase at the moment.

[djparkins]

1 hour ago, HereticUK said:

With the sale on a Hattons now, I might buy both the A3 and the A4... They look like lovely models, but to read the forums here, it seems that it's almost 50/50 as to whether you get a good one or a disaster piece.

Is it truly so bad? This question really holds me back from making any purchase at the moment.

 

Well as I said in my post above, if you are capable of doing the kind of basic bench work of a kit builder that I outlined, then it doesn't really matter. Alway assume you'll get a bad one and you won't be disappointed. A lot of things you would probably want to change anyway. For example, the front bogie wheels need changing for Slaters wheels in order to look anything like the real thing. But at the £220 mark for the pre-owned ones, you can't really go wrong in my view.

 

David Parkins

[Adam1701D]

I've just ordered a Scotsman for £229. At that price, i don't mind if it's an Airfix kit when it arrives!

[w124bob]

I've just had an email from my model railway club friend who was tempted by this offer but seems to think that many of the locos on offer are returns and may be difficult to repair.

[Hilux5972]

4 hours ago, w124bob said:

I've just had an email from my model railway club friend who was tempted by this offer but seems to think that many of the locos on offer are returns and may be difficult to repair.

Technically the listings would have to state that I believe, otherwise they could end up legally in a whole pile of hot steamy stuff.

[Paperlad]

20 hours ago, w124bob said:

I've just had an email from my model railway club friend who was tempted by this offer but seems to think that many of the locos on offer are returns and may be difficult to repair.

I sincerely hope not. I’ve just ordered two (Mallard + Papyrus) and I would hate to be getting somebody else’s rejects, even at a heavily discounted price.

 

I’m not quite sure what to do with them yet as I don’t have any other O gauge stuff, maybe I can find a nice shelf for them and bore any visitors to death about the merits of A3’s and A4’s 😁.

 

PL.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Paperlad

[woodenhead]

56 minutes ago, Paperlad said:

I sincerely hope not. I’ve just ordered two (Mallard + Papyrus) and I would hate to be getting somebody else’s rejects, even at a heavily discounted price.

 

I’m not quite sure what to do with them yet as I don’t have any other O gauge stuff, maybe I can find a nice shelf for them and bore any visitors to death about the merits of A3’s and A4’s 😁.

 

PL.

I think people are confusing the Mega Sale of new items with a recent release of returns of Hattons O gauge locos.

 

The new locos are £299 whilst the returns/pre-owned are in a range £221-£271 depending on condition.

 

Where there are issues with the pre-owned loco there bits that have fallen off etc are shown in the image or there will be a description of the problem in the description.

[Paperlad]

Thanks woodehead, that makes perfect sense, I was obviously getting into tizz over nothing. Now all I’ve got to do is explain to the domestic supervisor why I’ve go two new loco’s that won’t fit on my layout🤔. I have until Mondays delivery to come up with a ruse!

 

PL.

[MoonM]

If it helps, I've just received my Mallard. Could not resist at the price. Looks untouched to me. Packaged well and nothing looks to be broken or have fallen off. Don't have the infrastructure yet to test it but will rig something up in the coming days to check. Also ordered a no nameplate a3 which has arrived also in similar condition. Now to find the best supplier of nameplates, numbers and builders plates. But I'll leave that for the a3 forum page... 

[Floreat Industria]

My A4 had a lot of extra parts to fit in packets but no fall plate, coal load or couplings. Hattons say they unfortunately haven't got any and they are altering their site to say so, but they are all things that I can easily add myself, like the cab handrail. Fortunately, all the obscure little parts are present.

[Art Dent]

Just received my Hattons A4 today having been looking to get one of these for ages.  £299 seemed an absolute bargain!

 

Both front 'splashers' (?) above the pistons have glue marks (where the stainless steel tread plates fit?) and a loose wheel on the front bogie.

 

No loose tread plates in the box.

 

Haven't even taken the model off its MDF board so no idea if it even runs!

 

 

^ Now you see it

 

 

^Now you don't!

 

 

 

^ Port side

 

 

 

^ Starboard side

 

Email to Hattons requesting a replacement!

 

Not impressed with the QC at Heljan!

 

Art

[neal]

That is not an unknown issue, check below all the packaging in the box to see if the plates are there. Easy fix, and if that’s all the issues you have you still have a bargain….

 

N

[Art Dent]

32 minutes ago, neal said:

That is not an unknown issue, check below all the packaging in the box to see if the plates are there. Easy fix, and if that’s all the issues you have you still have a bargain….

 

N

 

Nope, no loose plates in the box.  Completely emptied the inner cardboard box of all foam and checked thoroughly.

 

Only the loose wheel from the front bogie - the wheel was loose in the box - luckily semi-jammed behind the leading driving wheel so no bodywork damage - at least I didn't notice any.

 

No fall plate, coal load, running board supports or valence pipe which the instructions say should be included.  Only a pack containing the brake rigging.

 

Art

 

 

[Hilux5972]

10 hours ago, Art Dent said:

Email to Hattons requesting a replacement!

 

Not impressed with the QC at Heljan!

 

Art

Are you serious? Why do you think they are selling them £450 cheaper than retail? They are all known to have issues so no one would buy them. Hence the huge price discount. 

[APOLLO]

19 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Are you serious? Why do you think they are selling them £450 cheaper than retail? They are all known to have issues so no one would buy them. Hence the huge price discount. 

 

If they are all known to have issues then why do Hattons not state that in their advert ?

 

I was tempted, but not after reading all this. May be a bargain for some, but not for me.

 

Brit15

 

 

[neal]

8 hours ago, Art Dent said:

 

Nope, no loose plates in the box.  Completely emptied the inner cardboard box of all foam and checked thoroughly.

 

Only the loose wheel from the front bogie - the wheel was loose in the box - luckily semi-jammed behind the leading driving wheel so no bodywork damage - at least I didn't notice any.

 

No fall plate, coal load, running board supports or valence pipe which the instructions say should be included.  Only a pack containing the brake rigging.

 

Art

 

 

The detail pack including the coal etc was a separate item (delivered late by Heljan) and sent separately by Hatton’s with early sales.  I think they have long since run out of these… None were supplied with the Mallard A4 release AFAIK.  That said, having tried to fit them to 60009, they were not of great quality and not having them is no massive loss,

 

Sorry that the tread plates are not there, you might ask Hattons if they have spares from returned models.

 

I would be minded to give your model a chance, if the bodywork is fine and it runs well (with the bogie wheel reattached) that might be the lesser of two evils (unless you were thinking of a refund).

 

I have 3 of these models and have been lucky (although I didn’t  benefit from the latest discount).  All run well, indeed I ran two of them on the rolling road for 5 hours each last weekend with no issue.

 

Neal

[neal]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

If they are all known to have issues then why do Hattons not state that in their advert ?

 

I was tempted, but not after reading all this. May be a bargain for some, but not for me.

 

Brit15

 

 

It’s a good point, they might have graded them as they did with the Gresley coaches, but that takes manpower when you are going through hundreds of.boxes, removing models from plinths, inspecting, test running and re-packaging,,,,

 

Neal

[PeterStiles]

Well, my Union of South Africa arrived Thursday and it definitely has "The detail pack including the coal etc" included and looks in tip-top condition compared to some of the other examples here.

 

At the moment it is acting as a Conversation Piece on the lounge coffee table as O gauge seems like the solitary gauge I don't have a readily available oval of :( Whilst working out where I can fit one, my kindly wife suggested the far end of the garden. I think that what she was suggesting anyway.

[Darius43]

I purchased Union of South Africa partly because of the “bargain” price and partly because a friend and I rode behind her on the Bluebell a few years ago.

 

The detail pack was supplied, minus coal load and fall plate so I made replacements.

 

 

 

 

Really pleased although the 3ft length of O gauge track in the photos is all I possess do it’s going to be display cabinet material.

 

 

 

 

Next task is to add the missing cab handrails.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Darius43

[Paul Cram]

2 hours ago, neal said:

The detail pack including the coal etc was a separate item (delivered late by Heljan) and sent separately by Hatton’s with early sales.  I think they have long since run out of these… None were supplied with the Mallard A4 release AFAIK.  That said, having tried to fit them to 60009, they were not of great quality and not having them is no massive loss,

 

Sorry that the tread plates are not there, you might ask Hattons if they have spares from returned models.

 

I would be minded to give your model a chance, if the bodywork is fine and it runs well (with the bogie wheel reattached) that might be the lesser of two evils (unless you were thinking of a refund).

 

I have 3 of these models and have been lucky (although I didn’t  benefit from the latest discount).  All run well, indeed I ran two of them on the rolling road for 5 hours each last weekend with no issue.

 

Neal

Have you tried pulling  train with them? Thats when they fail.

[neal]

7 hours ago, Paul Cram said:

Have you tried pulling  train with them? Thats when they fail.

4-5 mk1’s on, but I don’t have a massive loop to run them on at high speed - hence the rolling road.

 

It is a good point, but most modellers don’t have huge layouts in the context of O Gauge.  But if I could get the other half to sign off the garden layout…..

 

N

 

 

[Art Dent]

On 04/11/2022 at 06:28, Hilux5972 said:

Are you serious? Why do you think they are selling them £450 cheaper than retail? They are all known to have issues so no one would buy them. Hence the huge price discount. 

 

Yes, I'm quite serious!

 

Okay, the rrp *may* be £750 and for a long time it was being sold around the £500-mark (can't remember the exact figure) before being reduced to £299.

 

However, they aren't listed as 'graded', they aren't listed as 'seconds', they are listed as 'new'.

 

Therefore I expect the same quality and standards as if it had been sold at the full rrp of £750.

 

Are you saying that because it has been 'discounted' by 60% that I should expect a lesser model or that I should expect imperfections and/or missing parts??

 

Would you expect damage and missing parts on receipt of a brand new model??

 

If so, your standards are clearly different to mine!

 

Okay, so the cure for the loose front bogie wheels may be to buy some Slater's wheels & axles (at £18.50 inc VAT) for a pair of wheels plus axle (or £37 for the front bogie) - ref 7838G.

 

Also possibly problematical are loose driving wheels.  Slaters do a pair plus axle (retained by an allen screw) for £25.50 inc VAT (so a total of £76.50) - ref 7880G

 

So that's £113.50 to replace the front bogie wheels and the driving wheels.

 

Then, there is the issue of OLE warning flashes (from Fox Transfers - F7214 or HMRS Transfers?) at at least £7.80 (Fox)

 

Expensive business getting your model to 'look right' and 'run right'.

 

Art

 

 

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, Art Dent said:

Are you saying that because it has been 'discounted' by 60% that I should expect a lesser model or that I should expect imperfections and/or missing parts??

Yes that’s precisely what I’m saying. Surely you would ask yourself, why a company would discount a product by that much?