Bachmann 00 61xx GWR tank?

[tomparryharry]

I don't know what's all the moaning about on this thread.

 

 

 

Small prairie? and now you want a large Prairie also?

 

You've got a 94xx, 15xx, 16xx and a 44xx before you get to a large prairie!

 

You kids, I don't know......

 

Ian.

[The Stationmaster]

I don't know what's all the moaning about on this thread.

 

 

 

Small prairie? and now you want a large Prairie also?

 

You've got a 94xx, 15xx, 16xx and a 44xx before you get to a large prairie!

 

You kids, I don't know......

 

Ian.

 

What about a Buffalo?

[tomparryharry]

What about a Buffalo?

 

So, I went to the front desk, and I asked...

 

"Please sir, can I have a large Prairie, an Aberdare, Large Metro, a 517 (late period) and a Taff Vale 'A' class? Oh, and chuck in a couple of 850 tanks, as well...

 

"Don't be ridiculous!", came the response...

 

"Me? Ridiculous?  You started it!"

 

Ian.

[Steamport Southport]

But we are talking about a long lived, popular class which got virtually everywhere on the GWR and has numerous preserved examples.

 

It's crying out for a modern version. Maybe not immediately, but certainly within the next ten years or so. If they start it now, them maybe it will be available within those ten years....

 

 

 

Out of the obscure locos, I would love an Aberdare. They already make the ROD tender....

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Horsetan]

I don't know what's all the moaning about on this thread.

 

 

 

Small prairie? and now you want a large Prairie also?

 

If you can't wait, you can always build your own....

[Steamport Southport]

Very nice. The problem is they will end up on the ever growing pile in the corner.....

 

The 4-4-0s are especially lovely though.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

 

If you can't wait, you can always build your own....

 

 

Hmm.  £155 before assembly, finishing, wheels, motor, gearbox, all items whose availability is moot, and couplers, plus build time. Nah, I'll stick with the old Airfix for now.

[Horsetan]

Hmm.  £155 before assembly, finishing, wheels, motor, gearbox, all items whose availability is moot, and couplers, plus build time. Nah,.....

 

At least, if you build it, all the mistakes will be your own work, rather than imposed by someone else (see Oxford threads, etc....)

Edited October 18, 2017 by Horsetan

[tomparryharry]

But we are talking about a long lived, popular class which got virtually everywhere on the GWR and has numerous preserved examples.

 

It's crying out for a modern version. Maybe not immediately, but certainly within the next ten years or so. If they start it now, them maybe it will be available within those ten years....

 

 

 

Out of the obscure locos, I would love an Aberdare. They already make the ROD tender....

 

 

 

 

Jason

Obscure? I wouldn't think so, they only made 80 of them, with a 50-odd year life span. There again, define obscure in this world. I'd tend to agree with Horsetan's view. "If you want one, make it yourself". Has Great Western RTR run to it's conclusion? 

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

Given that they were very similar if not identical below footplate level, a 517 should be fairly easy for either Hornby or Hattons/DJH to knock out, again a long lived loco covering just about the entire GWR geographically and able to carry several different liveries. They lasted, just, until nationalisation, but AFAIK none carried BR livery or smokebox numbers and, like 48/14xx, are ideal for auto work, main or branch line.  None survived to run with the Hawksworth A38 auto trailer as produced by Baccy, though.

 

I have wondered for many years if there is any mileage in the idea of an RTR manufacturer or smaller kit style operation putting out a range of Churchward/Collett standard parts, boiler/firebox/smokebox assemblies, cylinder/piston/crosshead, motion, wheels, even chimneys and safety valve covers and appropriate tanks, cabs, and bunkers.  As an RTR manufacturer they could simply assemble these to make more or less the entire range of Churchward/Collett standard designs, and modellers could use the individual parts to adapt RTR to differing prototypes, or as scratchbuilding aids.  So, for example, you would be able to assemble a 43xx from the same footplate/cylinder assembly as a large prairie, with a suitable cab and a no.4 boiler; the mountings would need to be different.

 

A no.4 boiler and Churchward cab with an ROD tender is a long way towards an Aberdare.

[Steamport Southport]

Obscure? I wouldn't think so, they only made 80 of them, with a 50-odd year life span. There again, define obscure in this world. I'd tend to agree with Horsetan's view. "If you want one, make it yourself". Has Great Western RTR run to it's conclusion? 

 

Ian.

 

Obscure enough, seeing as only a handful lasted past 1940 and only 4 or so lasted to carry BR livery.

 

 

Well I've built dozens of loco kits if that helps. Do I buy RTR? Yes. But only the top end stuff nowadays. It saves time and money to build things that will never be available RTR. I doubt that we will ever get a full range of BR Mark Ones for example, so I build the Comet kits of the ones I need. I hasten to add I'm not an expert builder, just an average one that can just about build a kit without melting the whitemetal.

 

 

 

But has GWR RTR come to it's conclusion? I seriously doubt it. The main RTR manufactures NEED to release one or two locomotives a year just to generate interest in their ranges. If they don't they will just end up stagnant like they did in the early 1970s before Lima, Airfix and Mainline, and the 1990s when Bachmann gave Hornby a massive kick up the bum and proved that quality sells.

 

If they didn't release new models then we would still be stuck with Hornby Dublo and Triang toys. There's a thread on here about the Hornby Castle and we've discussed the new one, Airfix one and Hornby Dublo version. Some would still be happy with the HD version or Airfix one, but most of us would rather have the new super detailed version.

 

Like wise we could stick with the Airfix 61XX and most of us would be happy. But I for one, would buy a new version if it was released. I could build a Finney kit, but I could also use that time building something else I need.

 

 

Jason

[Ian Hargrave]

RTR GWR has at least one more icon to produce.That being the Saint..I'm a long time and a long way from Aberdare though

[Horsetan]

...wondered for many years if there is any mileage in the idea of an RTR manufacturer or smaller kit style operation putting out a range of Churchward/Collett standard parts, boiler/firebox/smokebox assemblies, cylinder/piston/crosshead, motion, wheels, even chimneys and safety valve covers and appropriate tanks, cabs, and bunkers. As an RTR manufacturer they could simply assemble these to make more or less the entire range of Churchward/Collett standard designs, and modellers could use the individual parts to adapt RTR to differing prototypes, or as scratchbuilding aids. So, for example, you would be able to assemble a 43xx from the same footplate/cylinder assembly as a large prairie, with a suitable cab and a no.4 boiler; the mountings would need to be different.

 

A no.4 boiler and Churchward cab with an ROD tender is a long way towards an Aberdare.

As long as RTR producers dance to the tune of Chinese factory methods, this is never going to happen, however much we might want it. It's difficult enough to obtain body spares for existing RTR as it is.

[The Johnster]

RTR GWR has at least one more icon to produce.That being the Saint..I'm a long time and a long way from Aberdare though

 

 

As Hornby have already done this, a re-release is not impossible sometime in the future.  Straight frame or 'curved at the front, straight at the back' frame versions have not been done, though.

 

Offhand, and keeping to types that lasted up to or near up to the end of steam on the WR, 44xx, 16xx, 3150, 81xx, 97xx, and 47xx have never been produced in RTR form though a 47xx is 'pending'.  The 44xx suffers a little from being too similar to the 45xx/4575 and a limited geographical range, Princetown and Porthcawl.  It might be considered obscure by some, but that has not prevented RTR versions of the Adams Radial and Beattie Well Tank, both of which were restricted to single branch lines, being produced and selling well enough.  The 16xx was widespread on the WR, and some worked in Scotland; the others are small and obscure classes, though the old K's kit of the 97xx was popular years ago as an easy build with the motor well hidden.

 

Further GW(ish) prototypes might be found among the absorbed/constituent engines, with rebuilt TVR 'A' class and Rhymney 'AR' probably being the front runners, but I am getting dangerously close to wishlisting here and doubt that a commercial case could be made for them.  This is an area where the kit trade was very useful, and it's demise to not be replaced with anything else is missed!

[The Stationmaster]

RTR GWR has at least one more icon to produce.That being the Saint..I'm a long time and a long way from Aberdare though

 

And regrettably I can't see that one coming along soon, notwithstanding what is happening at Didcot.  The problem is that 'all GWR 4-6-0s look the same', despite the fact that you could get a rather different looking 'Saint' to cover a pretty wide timespan - but still no go alas.

[adb968008]

RTR GWR has at least one more icon to produce.That being the Saint..I'm a long time and a long way from Aberdare though

And a new County 4-6-0.

I have the Black Hornby one, and it is a beautifully fantastic smooth running model, nice paint job too, it’s just looking a little under detailed in some parts.

Edited October 19, 2017 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

The County's not a bad model. It just needs a new boiler/firebox, cab and running plate. And some details such as boiler fittings.

 

Oh! And a new tender. ISTR that it's either too wide or too narrow.

 

 

They do scrub up quite well with a bit of effort though. Tim Shackleton did an excellent job on one in Plastic Bodied Locos.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-bodied-Locos-Tim-Shakleton/dp/1874103526/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Horsetan]

The County's not a bad model. It just needs a new boiler/firebox, cab and running plate. And some details such as boiler fittings.

 

Oh! And a new tender. ISTR that it's either too wide or too narrow.

 

 

They do scrub up quite well with a bit of effort though. Tim Shackleton did an excellent job on one in Plastic Bodied Locos.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-bodied-Locos-Tim-Shakleton/dp/1874103526/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

 

 

 

There is the old Jackson Evan detailing / correction kit for that - it's just not available

[Miss Prism]

In case anyone is interested in large Prairie variations:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

[David Stannard]

It would be nice if an updated version of the large prairie came out, however I think they would be much better served bringing out either a 31xx/51xx variant, given that this locomotive class was used for mixed traffic and had a far wider area of deployment than the 61xx's I feel they would be a better choice to model than what is pretty much a suburban passenger tank locomotive. To be frank though I would much prefer Bachmann to bring out a 33xx Bulldog, especially since all they would have to do is replace the boiler and cab on the 32xx Earls, it would be great for modellers to finally have an RTR version of a long lived and much travelled locomotive that was used on anything from express passenger to local goods trains. My other option would be as a number of others have pointed out is a new version of the 78xx Manor or 43xx Moguls, both of these classes worked over a wide area of the GWR network and the 43xx's in particular were a maid of all work.

Edited October 23, 2017 by David Stannard

[The Johnster]

In case anyone is interested in large Prairie variations:

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

 

 

Thank you for the link Miss P; this is a very useful guide to the fairly complex and confusing history of these locos.  

[The Johnster]

It would be nice if an updated version of the large prairie came out, however I think they would be much better served bringing out either a 31xx/51xx variant, given that this locomotive class was used for mixed traffic and had a far wider area of deployment than the 61xx's I feel they would be a better choice to model than what is pretty much a suburban passenger tank locomotive. To be frank though I would much prefer Bachmann to bring out a 33xx Bulldog, especially since all they would have to do is replace the boiler and cab on the 32xx Earls, it would be great for modellers to finally have an RTR version of a long lived and much travelled locomotive that was used on anything from express passenger to local goods trains. My other option would be as a number of others have pointed out is a new version of the 78xx Manor or 43xx Moguls, both of these classes worked over a wide area of the GWR network and the 43xx's in particular were a maid of all work.

 

There is no visual difference AFAIK between the 31/51xx variant, which includes the 75 41xx series, and the only significant difference in the 61xx is the higher pressure boiler, which cannot be seen.  A detail is that the 61xx were fitted with London Transport type trip cock gear to work over their lines in the London area and certain platforms at Paddington, but this has not been modelled on any of the RTR 61xx; it would be a delicate detail if it were.  So a 31/51xx can be modelled by simply putting suitable new number plates on to an RTR 61xx, and I believe Hornby did a 51xx numbered version at one time.   I agree, though, that the 61xx is limited in geographical range and would also prefer an RTR large prairie to be a 31/51xx which were a larger class and much more widespread across the GW and WR.  There is, as has been stated previously in this thread, very little chance of Bachmann ever doing one; Hornby is much more likely and one wonders if the OP is confusing large and small prairies.

 

The 81xx and 31xx variants are very small classes with smaller driving wheels and a no 4 boiler in the case of the 31xx, and I would be very surprised if any RTR manufacturer has ever considered them or ever will.  3100 was at Tondu in my modelling period and I have a vague plan to cobble her together one day out of a suitable rewheeled chassis, and bit from Dapol/Kitmaster construction kit 61xx and City of Truro, but it is very low on the priority list and will probably never see the light of what passes for day in my railway room!

[The Stationmaster]

It would be nice if an updated version of the large prairie came out, however I think they would be much better served bringing out either a 31xx/51xx variant, given that this locomotive class was used for mixed traffic and had a far wider area of deployment than the 61xx's I feel they would be a better choice to model than what is pretty much a suburban passenger tank locomotive. To be frank though I would much prefer Bachmann to bring out a 33xx Bulldog, especially since all they would have to do is replace the boiler and cab on the 32xx Earls, it would be great for modellers to finally have an RTR version of a long lived and much travelled locomotive that was used on anything from express passenger to local goods trains. My other option would be as a number of others have pointed out is a new version of the 78xx Manor or 43xx Moguls, both of these classes worked over a wide area of the GWR network and the 43xx's in particular were a maid of all work.

 

The 5101 Class is undoubtedly the best option for a model due to being the most widespread in use in later years and it would span (cab shutters and bunker top fender apart - albeit the latter only for a relatively short period) the 1930s to withdrawal with the 61XX variant being a straightforward addition for those who want them and, especially in later years, a number escaped from the London Division .

 

As to Bachmann producing one I think we can forget that idea entirely - by the time they get to the 94XX I would suspect they might well have had their fill of Western tank engines (which might not b ode well for those who lust after a 16XX and can't lay hands on the fairly presentable formerly Cotswold kit.

Edited October 28, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[County of Yorkshire]

The 5101 Class is undoubtedly the best option for a model due to being the most widespread in use in later years and it would span (cab shutters and bunker top fender apart - albeit the latter only for a relatively short period) the 1930s to withdrawal with the 61XX variant being a straightforward addition for those who want them and, especially in later years, a number escaped from the London Division .

 

As to Bachmann producing one I think we can forget that idea entirely - by the time they get to the 94XX I would suspect they might well have had their fill of Western tank engines (which might not b ode well for those who lust after a 16XX and can't lay hands on the fairly presentable formerly Cotswold kit.

 

Would agree with all of that Mike. So, then, Hornby are missing a GWR passenger tank of any size in their stable of 21st century tooling. Yes, they've the 42/52/72 heavies but nothing to pull their Collett coaches. Perhaps a 5101 announcement to accompany some GWR non-corridor stock (that in itself a big omission from their range) becons for 2018/2019? Stands to reason that the dancing couple of the LNER L1 - Gresley/Thompson non-corridors, the LMS Stanier Tank - Period III non-corridors, and the SR M7/H - LSWR (SR rebuilt non corridors) would be complemented by a GWR Large Prairie and some Collett flat-ended non-corridor coaches? 

 

Personally I would be a trifle dismayed if we did not see the above state of affairs by abut 2020. Unless my OCD sensibilities have beaten logic to the surface?

 

CoY 

[The Johnster]

Preaching to the choir here, CoY.  A 5101/61xx from H is not difficult to envisage, developed from the old Airfix/GMR/Dapol/Hornby 61xx, suitable for hauling Collett and Hawksworth gangwayed stock as well as freight on secondary services (Gloucester-Hereford for example), so complementing other items in the catalogue.  But we've had the non-gangwayed discussion before and I would suggest, rather sadly, that any stock other than a re-issue of the Aifix/GMR/Hornby bowended B, nowadays a bit dated in the finer details, set is very unlikely from H or any other RTR manufacturer, other than perhaps a flatended B set which would at least have the advantage of being able to be correctly run as single vehicles.  This is because, unlike the LMS, SR, and LNER types that fill this market gap, the Collett non gangwayed stock was based on numbers of standard sized 3rd and 1st class compartments and not a standard length of chassis, so a number of different chassis would have to be produced to form a correct train with Brake 3rd, Full 3rd, and Composite coaches each of slightly different lengths over the buffers.  Even in an age where we are being conditioned to pay over £50 for a coach, this might push the retail price beyond what is considered acceptable in the market for 'suburban' coaches, and 'Winter Is Coming' in the trade, nobody wants to manufacture stock they don't think they'd be able to shift.

 

This is a shame, as such coaches were spread across the region and most lasted until the late 50s, some managing a couple of years into the early 60s, and were endemic in the London, Bristol, Birmingham, and South Wales areas.  As a South Wales 50s modeller, they are almost as necessary as sheep, and the Comet kits are not available.  I'd say no chance by 2020, or the foreseeable future, unless manufacturing costs in the Far East drop out of the bottom!

Edited October 28, 2017 by The Johnster