Aberdeen Kirkhill T&RSD

[Flood]

Just a quick update.

 

I've just changed the Sherpa photos in post #648, two things were driving me nuts.

 

1. I noticed yesterday that I'd put the transfer for the front grill on back to front so the Freight Rover sign was the wrong way round. A quick print out on new transfer paper and varnished last night to then replace the old transfer this morning.

 

2. The wing mirrors had to be done so I've just finished adding those.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Flood

[Flood]

As I have just posted on the thread for the Chatham show it is with significant regret that we have had to withdraw Aberdeen Kirkhill this weekend.

 

This was going to be the last show we attended for about a year and a half anyway. Over the next year we are looking at quite a number of significant improvements to the layout which means it will return as an even better layout with considerably more variety and running potential for the public to enjoy.

 

I aim to keep you posted as developments progress but for the time being my fellow owner has other far more important matters to address.

[Flood]

I did say that I would be posting developments so here goes.

 

Aberdeen Kirkhill is dead, long live Aberdeen Kirkhill.

 

Aberdeen Kirkhill is due to have a major revision with the following envisaged:

 

1. The fiddle yard will be removed from the main boards

2. The fuelling point will be moved to where the fiddle yard currently is

3. 4ft will be added to the Wheel Lathe end and Wellington Road bridge will be moved from the centre of the layout to the Wheel Lathe end

4. 9 inches will be added to the width of the rear of the main boards to create the main line

5. A new full length fiddle yard will be made with connections to the front boards to create pseudo "roundy roundy" main line running.

 

I say pseudo "roundy roundy" as the main line stock will in reality solely run from one end of the fiddle yard via the front boards to the other end of the fiddle yard.

 

With a house move imminent for one of the joint owners there will be no progress made on the layout until August at the earliest. In the meantime I am continuing to research the freight that will now be required for the layout and start to convert/scratch build/kit build the stock.

 

What I have managed to finish today is, hopefully, the final plan for the new fiddle yard. Please see below:

 

 

We are next due to exhibit in October 2016 at the Alsager Railway Association Exhibition at Crewe, I just hope a year is enough time.

 

In the meantime, please give us your comments on our ideas.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Flood

[steve fay]

Look forward to seeing your progress

[Dunedin]

It's been a while since we posted anything on here, but as Graham intimated, a house-move for me together with problems with elderly parents meant my summer and autumn came and went with little progress on the layout.

That changed somewhat over Christmas with a determined effort to finish unpacking boxes that had been left to languish in the garage and get things cleared so we would have a workshop for layout-building and repainting rolling stock etc.

 

Graham posted the plan for the new fiddle yard in the summer and I had drawn (or rather sketched) the concept for the extended main boards back in January last year:

 

 

 

I then made up the cutting instructions for my local B&Q so we could get the wood cut:

 

 

New Kirkhill Boards.pdf

 

I now have three 4ft x 8ft sheets of 9mm ply reduced to a kit of parts.

 

 

 

This doesn't cover all the boards yet, but it's enough to be going on with and we decided that the most important thing is to get the main boards completed first, bearing in mind that our next exhibition is at Crewe this November. That may sound like a long time off, but it won't feel that way, based on our experience last time! We don't need a fully-working fiddle yard and don't even need to be able to run along the back of the depot on the main line to begin with, so long as the layout looks finished to observers. After all, Diesels in the Duchy don't run past the depot on the main line by intention. For us, that can come later and means that we can concentrate on getting things to look right, rather than go hell for leather and finish up with a compromise. At least, that is the plan. Keep watching for further news.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[Grimleygrid]

I haven't been on this thread for a while so decided to have a catch up only to find that Aberdeen Kirkhill was dead! Luckily I then saw that AK is just up for a revision, phew, I am relieved....

 

I am looking forward to seeing the revised version, good luck.

[rob D2]

Looking forward to the supersize version

[Dunedin]

During November/December I also managed to make some time to start another repaint project. Back in 2012, I came across a pair of new Grand Central HST power cars for £69.99! They were a bargain at the time and I love bargains, but by today's prices, it seems ridiculous. I didn't have an immediate use for them at the time, but I had always intended to use one of them to replace my surrogate DVT conversion of 43123 using a Hornby dummy chassis and a Lima body:

 

 

This was always something of a compromise and whilst it looked the part to an extent, a powered version would have been useful, so I decided it was time to have a go. First job was to file out the new light cluster so I could insert one of the originals that I had spare:

 

 

Then the guards van windows needed putting back in (these were on the power cars when built, but were plated over later in life):

 

 

Then for the repainting:

 

Primer

 

The yellow and Exec Dark Grey:

 

The white between the two is actually the primer, which I decided looked ok. The hard part was working out how to take the line round the nose. This is really hard to mask because it is a 3-dimensional curve and it's hard to keep the line horizontal in all dimensions! I didn't manage it particularly well on the Lima version either, but then I covered it up somewhat with weathering. This time, I wanted it to look right, but painting it just wasn't working for me. A rummage through my transfers envelope (it's quite a large envelope) turned up some Fox HST power car swallow transfers which included the red and white stripes for the nose ends. I tried those and they were certainly more successful than my attempts at painting.

 

The Exec Light Grey and red/white stripes on the guards van end (and my attempt at painting the nose end stripe - ugh!):

 

All the paint is acrylic - yellow and Exec Dark Grey are Railmatch and the Exec Light Grey is Vallejo Model Colour Buff (VAL70976), mixed with Railmatch BR Rail Grey. Mixing is inconvenient, but I think the result is an acceptable match for the Hornby Exec Trailers and acrylic is easier to work with than enamels.

 

The improved result with the Fox transfer on the nose:

 

Finished result except for numbering, minor detailing and weathering and for comparison, the unchanged dummy Grand Central power car:

 

I'm quite pleased with the result - it almost seems a shame to weather it!

 

My intention for the dummy is to convert that to 43084 which was another surrogate DVT and the first one to be painted in InterCity Swallow livery. It just about fits the timeframe for Kirkhill, it having appeared in March 1988 and besides, I do like Swallow livery, particularly on the DVTs! That may be a while in the making though; as per my previous post, we do have a layout to build!

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[d winpenny]

Looking great

 

David

[bigP]

--

Edited January 31, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[sub39h]

During November/December I also managed to make some time to start another repaint project. Back in 2012, I came across a pair of new Grand Central HST power cars for £69.99! They were a bargain at the time and I love bargains, but by today's prices, it seems ridiculous. I didn't have an immediate use for them at the time, but I had always intended to use one of them to replace my surrogate DVT conversion of 43123 using a Hornby dummy chassis and a Lima body:

 

43123 Lima.jpg

 

This was always something of a compromise and whilst it looked the part to an extent, a powered version would have been useful, so I decided it was time to have a go. First job was to file out the new light cluster so I could insert one of the originals that I had spare:

 

43123 part 1.jpg

 

Then the guards van windows needed putting back in (these were on the power cars when built, but were plated over later in life):

 

43123 part 2.jpg

 

Then for the repainting:

 

Primer

43123 part 3.jpg

 

The yellow and Exec Dark Grey:

43123 part 4.jpg

 

The white between the two is actually the primer, which I decided looked ok. The hard part was working out how to take the line round the nose. This is really hard to mask because it is a 3-dimensional curve and it's hard to keep the line horizontal in all dimensions! I didn't manage it particularly well on the Lima version either, but then I covered it up somewhat with weathering. This time, I wanted it to look right, but painting it just wasn't working for me. A rummage through my transfers envelope (it's quite a large envelope) turned up some Fox HST power car swallow transfers which included the red and white stripes for the nose ends. I tried those and they were certainly more successful than my attempts at painting.

 

The Exec Light Grey and red/white stripes on the guards van end (and my attempt at painting the nose end stripe - ugh!):

43123 part 5.jpg

 

All the paint is acrylic - yellow and Exec Dark Grey are Railmatch and the Exec Light Grey is Vallejo Model Colour Buff (VAL70976), mixed with Railmatch BR Rail Grey. Mixing is inconvenient, but I think the result is an acceptable match for the Hornby Exec Trailers and acrylic is easier to work with than enamels.

 

The improved result with the Fox transfer on the nose:

43123 part 6.jpg

 

Finished result except for numbering, minor detailing and weathering and for comparison, the unchanged dummy Grand Central power car:

43123 part 7.jpg

 

I'm quite pleased with the result - it almost seems a shame to weather it!

 

My intention for the dummy is to convert that to 43084 which was another surrogate DVT and the first one to be painted in InterCity Swallow livery. It just about fits the timeframe for Kirkhill, it having appeared in March 1988 and besides, I do like Swallow livery, particularly on the DVTs! That may be a while in the making though; as per my previous post, we do have a layout to build!

 

I used a GC power car chassis under a Hornby Swallow body with the valance cut off to make my surrogate DVT. Sold the bodies on for £35 but even then the chassis were more than£69.99! Very jealous!  

[Removed a/c]

Looks brilliant !!! 

 

Wish Hornby would make these !!!! or maybe Bachmann will ???

[russellwar]

As I understand it, it is fine to back date the grand central ones to the surrogate ones early 90's. Guards Windows and lights are only difference? Is all roof detail, exhausts correct?

[Dunedin]

Hi,

 

Just wondering what you colour went on the roof of the HST there?  Does the Exec Dark Grey go all over?

 

 

Cheers,

Paul

Hi,

 

I used Railmatch Roof Dirt for the roof above the orange line. I think Hornby use black on their Exec power cars, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's right though, but my recollection is that black would be the correct colour. I use the Roof Dirt because when I apply the weathering, I use matt black for the exhaust staining, so the roof dirt, which is more of a grey provides contrast and makes the exhaust staining stand out more.

 

I give the HST trailers the same treatment: roof dirt for the whole set and then at the ends of the TGS and FO nearest each power car, I use black and then fade it out. I give the cant rails similar treatment, because they got stained from the power car exhausts. Also the power car traction motor gearboxes used to leak, so the adjacent coach would frequently get splattered with oil, which the trainwashes couldn't remove from the chamfered edges of the doors. Once a month the sets would be hand washed, but in the meantime, it would build up. An example of a Lima TGS:

 

[Dunedin]

As I understand it, it is fine to back date the grand central ones to the surrogate ones early 90's. Guards Windows and lights are only difference? Is all roof detail, exhausts correct?

Yes, it's just the lights and the windows. Cooler groups and other roof details are the same.

 

The first two conversions (43123 and 42014) were the prototypes and were used on the West Coast for a while with Class 86s etc to prove the TDM control system. There were no HST servicing depots on the WCML that had any power car expertise, so the engines were isolated temporarily. It was intended that this would be permanent at first, so without any auxiliary alternator output, there would be no power for battery charging, cab air conditioning or other auxiliaries. These first two were therefore fitted with motor alternator sets in the guard's vans and a standard BR 850V - 1000V ETH supply with a jumper cable and socket at each end. They also had RCH lighting control jumpers at the non-driving end so they could transmit the TDM via the RCH cables on the loco-hailed coaches. These are all details that can be added later. After use on the West Coast ended, the 1000V ETH was no longer needed, so it was eventually removed. The later conversions for use with the Class 91s ran with HST trailers and provided the 3-phase, 415V supply for the train, so they were never fitted with the loco-hauled-type of ETH. Quite when 43123 and 43014 had theirs removed, I don't know, but there are photos of them on the East Coast, still fitted in Exec livery. When they were used on the East Coast, the surrogate DVTs also had the UIC-type jumper cables and sockets added for the TDM system, but these weren't used in HST formations. Spare cables in the 36-way HST control jumpers were used instead as far as the TGS. The TGSs on there sets designated for Class 91 workings were fitted with RCH jumpers to connect with the Class 91s RCH jumpers. 

[Dunedin]

A busy day today with Graham - we had a board meeting    

 

This was the first go at extending the depth of the boards for Kirkhill, so in at the deep end - Boards 3 & 4 got the treatment: 

• Rear backscenes removed
• Extensions constructed and added

This was the result by 5.30 this evening:

 

Board 3 - the hill is going to need some significant surgery.

 

 

Boards 3 & 4 together - the bridge on Board 4, which forms part of the scenic break, will go (along with the rest of the scenic break) and a new one will be situated on the new Board 7 at the far right hand end from the viewing side.

 

 

Once I'm satisfied that this method works and is stable, we will get on and extend the other four boards.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[sub39h]

Yes, it's just the lights and the windows. Cooler groups and other roof details are the same.

 

The first two conversions (43123 and 42014) were the prototypes and were used on the West Coast for a while with Class 86s etc to prove the TDM control system. There were no HST servicing depots on the WCML that had any power car expertise, so the engines were isolated temporarily. It was intended that this would be permanent at first, so without any auxiliary alternator output, there would be no power for battery charging, cab air conditioning or other auxiliaries. These first two were therefore fitted with motor alternator sets in the guard's vans and a standard BR 850V - 1000V ETH supply with a jumper cable and socket at each end. They also had RCH lighting control jumpers at the non-driving end so they could transmit the TDM via the RCH cables on the loco-hailed coaches. These are all details that can be added later. After use on the West Coast ended, the 1000V ETH was no longer needed, so it was eventually removed. The later conversions for use with the Class 91s ran with HST trailers and provided the 3-phase, 415V supply for the train, so they were never fitted with the loco-hauled-type of ETH. Quite when 43123 and 43014 had theirs removed, I don't know, but there are photos of them on the East Coast, still fitted in Exec livery. When they were used on the East Coast, the surrogate DVTs also had the UIC-type jumper cables and sockets added for the TDM system, but these weren't used in HST formations. Spare cables in the 36-way HST control jumpers were used instead as far as the TGS. The TGSs on there sets designated for Class 91 workings were fitted with RCH jumpers to connect with the Class 91s RCH jumpers. 

 

Those TGSs had buffers on the loco end too if I'm not mistaken? One of the few times Lima's inclusion of buffers would be correct! 

 

Do you happen to know the dates when the surrogate DVTs ran with 86s? Did they run with the 89 as well, or only ever the 91? 

 

Thanks.

[BR(S)]

Those TGSs had buffers on the loco end too if I'm not mistaken? One of the few times Lima's inclusion of buffers would be correct! 

 

Do you happen to know the dates when the surrogate DVTs ran with 86s? Did they run with the 89 as well, or only ever the 91? 

 

Thanks.

 

Definitely 1988 with 86s:

 

43123 at Birmingham New Street by blackwatch55013, on Flickr

 

 

89001 is said to be on the other end of this:

 

Leeds. by Keith Long, on Flickr

 

 

More Class 89 + DVT HST pictures:

 

https://flic.kr/p/8jh4Mw

 

https://flic.kr/p/dxUGoi

 

https://flic.kr/p/dKWMtG

Edited January 9, 2016 by BR(S)

[Dunedin]

Those TGSs had buffers on the loco end too if I'm not mistaken? One of the few times Lima's inclusion of buffers would be correct! 

 

Do you happen to know the dates when the surrogate DVTs ran with 86s? Did they run with the 89 as well, or only ever the 91? 

 

Thanks.

Yes, forgot to mention the buffers. The TGSs also had drop-head buckeye couplers and draw hooks instead of the usual fixed-head buckeyes of the HSTs, but only at the loco end.

 

As pointed out by BR(S), they also worked with the Class 89 on the East Coast for a while. According to Colin J Marsden's HST Silver Jubilee (Ian Allen 2001), there was a "short-lived" service intro on the WCML in December 1987 and presumably that is where photo of 43123 at Birmingham New St comes from, but that is just an educated guess. How long that lasted, the book does not say. According to the same source, the surrogate DVTs ran with the Class 89 on KX - Peterborough services from July 1988 on the 07.16 Peterborough - KX and 17.36 return.

[Dunedin]

More stripping of Kirkhill Boards 3 & 4 today:

 

Fiddle yard backscenes and Wellington Road bridge have now been removed from Board 4:

 

 

 

Wellington Road bridge will be reincarnated on the new Board 7 at the right-hand end of the layout as part of the scenic break.

 

The fuelling points have been removed from Board 3 and stored safely for re-use; these were two loco fuel points and an HST fuel point. The train wash will now take their place, so all trains draw forward from the new fuelling points (the existing ones, recycled) on the site of where the fiddle yard was and proceed through the wash. The 08 will then take rakes to the maintenance shed or cleaning roads.

 

 

 

This is the trial-fit to ensure that once the longest vehicles (Mark 3 coaches) are past the points and straight enough to clear the wash plant, there will still be sufficient length for the longest trains to fit into this road, clear of the wash.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[EMUsLEE]

Would it be possible to see the underside of the baseboards that you have added extra depth to so i can use it as a guide to do the same to my layout

 

Many Thanks  

 

Lee

[Dunedin]

On 14/01/2016 at 14:53, EMUsLEE said:

Would it be possible to see the underside of the baseboards that you have added extra depth to so i can use it as a guide to do the same to my layout

 

Many Thanks

 

Lee

The method we came up with is the most pragmatic way of extending them. As with the originals, the boards are 9mm ply, nailed and glued together with softwood gussets in the corners at the joints. This provides something to nail into. We can't nail the extensions onto the original boards, so we screwed 25mm-square softwood through into the gussets on the original frames and then nailed and glued the extensions onto them.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[Dunedin]

Two more boards extended today - boards 5 & 6:

 

 

 

Next job on these two is to remove the back scene, the wheel lathe (including the pit) and lift the track in the fiddle yard. Shame about the back scene and my chain-link fence, but they will (hopefully) be re-used elsewhere alongside the new mainline. The wheel lathe will be relocated to alongside the maintenance shed.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.

[EMUsLEE]

Looks really Good gives me something to go by when I do mine

 

Many Thanks  

[Dunedin]

Another weekend, another day spent on the layout. This time, we intended to extend Boards 1 & 2, but in the end we only completed Board 2. We finished up changing the method of construction again, this time due to shortage of the 1" square section wood that we have been using for the strengthening gussets. Our new method mirrors the one we used for the original boards by constructing a ladder frame. It actually results in a better job, which will be stronger, but it takes longer to build. It would have been quicker to have spent an hour going to B&Q to buy more wood!

 

The ladder frame:

 

 

Then the top board was nailed and glued in place, which is the same as previously.

We also filled in the hole which had been for the inspection pit module, which can be seen in the previous photo. The inspection pit will be re-sited to the new location of the maintenance shed.

 

This photo shows the completed extension on Board 2, married up to Board 3 to check the fit (which is perfect).

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Dunedin
Re-inserted missing images.