RMweb Premium iands Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 Inside the Gasworks tunnel I recall seeing lights, which I understood were to help drivers assess if the train was slipping in wet or greasy conditions climbing out of the cross. Anyone know the rough distance apart these lights were? I remember seeing these lights also. There was a fatal "slipping back" just after the end if WW2 I think, but I'm not certain if this event led directly to the lights being fitted in the tunnels. I also seem to recall that the lights were numbered, in increments of '5', e.g. 5, 10, 15, etc. I'm assuming they were spaced 5 yards apart, but I cannot confirm this. Maybe someone else can confirm? Regards, Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 From the 1972 Sectional Appendix: Electric Lamps in Gas Works Tunnel................situated at intervals of 25 yards........... Electric lamps in Hotel Curve Tunnel................situated at intervals of approximately 10 yards....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 From the 1972 Sectional Appendix: Electric Lamps in Gas Works Tunnel................situated at intervals of 25 yards........... Electric lamps in Hotel Curve Tunnel................situated at intervals of approximately 10 yards....... Thanks. Set a bit further apart than I remembered. Regatds, Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2018 I remember seeing these lights also. There was a fatal "slipping back" just after the end if WW2 I think, but I'm not certain if this event led directly to the lights being fitted in the tunnels. I also seem to recall that the lights were numbered, in increments of '5', e.g. 5, 10, 15, etc. I'm assuming they were spaced 5 yards apart, but I cannot confirm this. Maybe someone else can confirm? Regards, Ian. I believe that was the accident which killed Cecil Kimber of the MG car company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I'll see if I can dig out the 1960 Appendix, to see if the figures changed. Interesting that Gasworks Tunnel was also spelt as Gas Works Tunnel on different pages in the same publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2018 There were also bad 'slipping back' accidents at Glasgow Queen St. (1928) and North Queensferry (1954). IIRC with the Queen St. one, lights were in use but 1) they weren't bright enough and 2) the fireman wasn't looking out for them as he'd no idea the train had started to slip back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 The lights in Gasworks Tunnel where very useful for traincrew when shunt releasing, shunting stock in and out of platforms, as they where about a coach length apart. The shunter would tell you how many coaches you had on at the start of the move, and as you went into the tunnel you would count the number of lights for the number of coaches and add one for the loco. By the time the train stopped you where well clear of the signal for setting back. They where very useful, and in diesel days there was very little chance of slipping back into the station. Paul J. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 G'day Folks Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !! manna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 G'day Folks Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !! manna A little more from the Sectional Appendix: Electric lamps are installed on the left-hand wall of the Hotel Curve tunnel at intervals of approximately 10 yards. These lamps will be illuminated when a train is signalled into the tunnel and remain alight until the train has passed out of the tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 G'day Folks Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !! manna Nor can I. Maybe they fell out of use when freight traffic stopped in 1968? There was little chance of being stopped in Hotel Curve in the 1970s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold simon b Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 The lights in hotel curve tunnel seem to have still been in use till the end, they are on in the railtour vid from 76. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold simon b Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 All the track is down and the other platforms are made, I just wanted to have a think and get some advice about the wooden platforms, something I've never done before. Looking forward to seeing this Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2018 IIRC Roy Jackson mentioned the problems of working the hotel curve in his book 'London termini' and that old drivers used to have to put there hands out to touch the wall to see what direction they were moving in sometimes Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 IIRC Roy Jackson mentioned the problems of working the hotel curve in his book 'London termini' and that old drivers used to have to put there hands out to touch the wall to see what direction they were moving in sometimes Jamie I have to do that in my FIAT Doblo now and again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Looking forward to seeing this Pete. Thanks Simon. Very much a slow-burning work-in-progress, and I have taken some lots of liberties with the arrangement to fit the space available. I think the gradient down to the Hotel Curve tunnel has worked well. The pictures on this thread have been immensely helpful (thanks to all) even though I have no intention of attempting an exact copy. If it captures some of the "flavour" of the suburban side, I'll be very happy. I've no desire to start a layout topic but may add a shot or two to this thread in due course. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2018 Thanks Simon. Very much a slow-burning work-in-progress, and I have taken some lots of liberties with the arrangement to fit the space available. I think the gradient down to the Hotel Curve tunnel has worked well. The pictures on this thread have been immensely helpful (thanks to all) even though I have no intention of attempting an exact copy. If it captures some of the "flavour" of the suburban side, I'll be very happy. I've no desire to start a layout topic but may add a shot or two to this thread in due course. A nice little train set to dip a toe in the water of one of the finer scales perhaps Pete? Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 A nice little train set to dip a toe in the water of one of the finer scales perhaps Pete? I had an Amstrad hifi once. My mate had an A&R Cambridge. How he laughed. I was quite happy though, so I guess I'm an Amstrad kind of guy. So no, basically... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 As promised, for anyone that's interested, I've begun a topic on the layout that I just knew this thread would inspire. It was kinda inevitable... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133329-insert-name-but-its-a-bit-like-kings-cross-suburban/ I hope it will have the feel of the prototype in the 1970s, just don't expect a carbon copy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted May 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) Very interesting, those last few posts. How those small diameter sewers were ever dug and brick lined. From looking at old photos where modern day open-cast has cut through old workings one of the old Elizabethan techniques used for digging/lining drainage soughs (adits) appears to have been to dig it out bigger then build the arch behind the face jamming rubble into the void. Sort of like progressing with a tunnelling shield and lining pieces. Only less safe and with no decent lighting. Presumably any subsequent settlement around the structure just jammed the stonework up even tighter than the as built condition. They were undoubtedly brave chaps. Possibly something similar but using shoring to hold up the clay too. Would be interesting to know. Edited May 1, 2018 by john new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2018 From looking at old photos where modern day open-cast has cut through old workings one of the old Elizabethan techniques used for digging/lining drainage soughs (adits) appears to have been to dig it out bigger then build the arch behind the face jamming rubble into the void. Sort of like progressing with a tunnelling shield and lining pieces. Only less safe and with no decent lighting. Presumably any subsequent settlement around the structure just jammed the stonework up even tighter than the as built condition. They were undoubtedly brave chaps. Possibly something similar but using shoring to hold up the clay too. Would be interesting to know. When Bazalgette 'drained' London places such as the Embankment were built above what was the ground level, which was then raised above the sewer. As far as I know very little of the main sewers in London were built by tunnelling but by cut and cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Or possibly since platform 9 3/4 is mislocated due author incompetence, 'Euston East' might be a better plan? Oh, that's wildly unfair. There was nothing incompetent whatsoever about the decision to use King's Cross as a focal point in those stories. It was one of the cleverest things in the books, in terms of its thematic foreshadowings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Not sure if these photos have been linked to in the past, but some very interesting shots in the album on Flickr, link below, taken in the early 60's. Very high resolution scans as well, which is a bonus. https://flic.kr/s/aHsmeTSoKz Paul J. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2018 What is with the double head signals on certain roads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Not sure if these photos have been linked to in the past, but some very interesting shots in the album on Flickr, link below, taken in the early 60's. Very high resolution scans as well, which is a bonus. https://flic.kr/s/aHsmeTSoKz Paul J. Hi, this link appears not to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon 123 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 What is with the double head signals on certain roads? They are sort of junction signals, because there were more than one route available for departing trains. As a rough example this photo, https://flic.kr/p/2327gYE , shows the departure signals for Platform 7 (old numbering), and departures can be via two routes, D & C, so there is a signal indicating to each respective route, sort of the same as if the signal had semaphore arms instead of lights. Some signals that only had a single head, also had a roller blind route indicator, that diplayed the route being taken. If you are prepared to read through it with a fine touthcombe, all this can be gleaned from my album in Flickr about the Kings Cross resignalling done by the LNER, most of which was still relevent until the 1976/7 electrification resignalling scheme. My Flickr album of the LNER resignalling sceme can be found here. https://flic.kr/s/aHskvC1YEk Paul J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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