Kings Cross York Road & Suburban Platforms

[iands]

Inside the Gasworks tunnel I recall seeing lights, which I understood were to help drivers assess if the train was slipping in wet or greasy conditions climbing out of the cross. Anyone know the rough distance apart these lights were?

I remember seeing these lights also. There was a fatal "slipping back" just after the end if WW2 I think, but I'm not certain if this event led directly to the lights being fitted in the tunnels. I also seem to recall that the lights were numbered, in increments of '5', e.g. 5, 10, 15, etc. I'm assuming they were spaced 5 yards apart, but I cannot confirm this. Maybe someone else can confirm?

 

Regards, Ian.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

From the 1972 Sectional Appendix:

 

Electric Lamps in Gas Works Tunnel................situated at intervals of 25 yards...........

 

Electric lamps in Hotel Curve Tunnel................situated at intervals of approximately 10 yards.......

[iands]

From the 1972 Sectional Appendix:

 

Electric Lamps in Gas Works Tunnel................situated at intervals of 25 yards...........

 

Electric lamps in Hotel Curve Tunnel................situated at intervals of approximately 10 yards.......

Thanks. Set a bit further apart than I remembered.

 

Regatds, Ian.

[russ p]

I remember seeing these lights also. There was a fatal "slipping back" just after the end if WW2 I think, but I'm not certain if this event led directly to the lights being fitted in the tunnels. I also seem to recall that the lights were numbered, in increments of '5', e.g. 5, 10, 15, etc. I'm assuming they were spaced 5 yards apart, but I cannot confirm this. Maybe someone else can confirm?

Regards, Ian.

 

I believe that was the accident which killed Cecil Kimber of the MG car company

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I'll see if I can dig out the 1960 Appendix, to see if the figures changed.

 

Interesting that Gasworks Tunnel was also spelt as Gas Works Tunnel on different pages in the same publication.

[keefer]

There were also bad 'slipping back' accidents at Glasgow Queen St. (1928) and North Queensferry (1954).

IIRC with the Queen St. one, lights were in use but 1) they weren't bright enough and 2) the fireman wasn't looking out for them as he'd no idea the train had started to slip back.

[Swindon 123]

The lights in Gasworks Tunnel where very useful for traincrew when shunt releasing, shunting stock in and out of platforms, as they where about a coach length apart. The shunter would tell you how many coaches you had on at the start of the move, and as you went into the tunnel you would count the number of lights for the number of coaches and add one for the loco. By the time the train stopped you where well clear of the signal for setting back. They where very useful, and in diesel days there was very little chance of slipping back into the station.

 

Paul J.

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !!

 

manna

[Peter Kazmierczak]

G'day Folks

 

Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !!

 

manna

 

A little more from the Sectional Appendix:

 

​Electric lamps are installed on the left-hand wall of the Hotel Curve tunnel at intervals of approximately 10 yards. These lamps will be illuminated when a train is signalled into the tunnel and remain alight until the train has passed out of the tunnel.

[roythebus]

G'day Folks

 

Thanks for letting us know the was lights in Hotel Curve tunnel, in 4 and a half years at Kings Cross, can't ever remember them being lit !!

 

manna

 

Nor can I. Maybe they fell out of use when freight traffic stopped in 1968? There was little chance of being stopped in Hotel Curve in the 1970s.

[simon b]

The lights in hotel curve tunnel seem to have still been in use till the end, they are on in the railtour vid from 76.

[simon b]

All the track is down and the other platforms are made, I just wanted to have a think and get some advice about the wooden platforms, something I've never done before.

Looking forward to seeing this Pete.

[jamie92208]

IIRC Roy Jackson mentioned the problems of working the hotel curve in his book 'London termini' and that old drivers used to have to put there hands out to touch the wall to see what direction they were moving in sometimes

 

Jamie

[Mike Storey]

IIRC Roy Jackson mentioned the problems of working the hotel curve in his book 'London termini' and that old drivers used to have to put there hands out to touch the wall to see what direction they were moving in sometimes

 

Jamie

 

I have to do that in my FIAT Doblo now and again.....

[Guest]

Looking forward to seeing this Pete.

Thanks Simon. Very much a slow-burning work-in-progress, and I have taken some lots of liberties with the arrangement to fit the space available. I think the gradient down to the Hotel Curve tunnel has worked well. The pictures on this thread have been immensely helpful (thanks to all) even though I have no intention of attempting an exact copy. If it captures some of the "flavour" of the suburban side, I'll be very happy. I've no desire to start a layout topic but may add a shot or two to this thread in due course.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Thanks Simon. Very much a slow-burning work-in-progress, and I have taken some lots of liberties with the arrangement to fit the space available. I think the gradient down to the Hotel Curve tunnel has worked well. The pictures on this thread have been immensely helpful (thanks to all) even though I have no intention of attempting an exact copy. If it captures some of the "flavour" of the suburban side, I'll be very happy. I've no desire to start a layout topic but may add a shot or two to this thread in due course.

 

A nice little train set to dip a  toe in the water of one of the finer scales perhaps Pete?

 

Mike.

[Guest]

A nice little train set to dip a  toe in the water of one of the finer scales perhaps Pete?

 

I had an Amstrad hifi once. My mate had an A&R Cambridge. How he laughed. I was quite happy though, so I guess I'm an Amstrad kind of guy. So no, basically...

[Guest]

As promised, for anyone that's interested, I've begun a topic on the layout that I just knew this thread would inspire. It was kinda inevitable...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133329-insert-name-but-its-a-bit-like-kings-cross-suburban/

 

I hope it will have the feel of the prototype in the 1970s, just don't expect a carbon copy.

[john new]

Very interesting, those last few posts.

How those small diameter sewers were ever dug and brick lined.

 

From looking at old photos where modern day open-cast has cut through old workings one of the old Elizabethan techniques used for digging/lining drainage soughs (adits) appears to have been to dig it out bigger then build the arch behind the face jamming rubble into the void. Sort of like progressing with a tunnelling shield and lining pieces. Only less safe and with no decent lighting. Presumably any subsequent settlement around the structure just jammed the stonework up even tighter than the as built condition. They were undoubtedly brave chaps. Possibly something similar but using shoring to hold up the clay too. Would be interesting to know.

Edited May 1, 2018 by john new

[chris p bacon]

From looking at old photos where modern day open-cast has cut through old workings one of the old Elizabethan techniques used for digging/lining drainage soughs (adits) appears to have been to dig it out bigger then build the arch behind the face jamming rubble into the void. Sort of like progressing with a tunnelling shield and lining pieces. Only less safe and with no decent lighting. Presumably any subsequent settlement around the structure just jammed the stonework up even tighter than the as built condition. They were undoubtedly brave chaps. Possibly something similar but using shoring to hold up the clay too. Would be interesting to know.

 

 

When Bazalgette 'drained' London places such as the Embankment were built above what was the ground level, which was then raised above the sewer. As far as I know very little of the main sewers in London were built by tunnelling but by cut and cover.

[Black Marlin]

Or possibly since platform 9 3/4 is mislocated due author incompetence, 'Euston East' might be a better plan?

 

Oh, that's wildly unfair. There was nothing incompetent whatsoever about the decision to use King's Cross as a focal point in those stories. It was one of the cleverest things in the books, in terms of its thematic foreshadowings.

[Swindon 123]

Not sure if these photos have been linked to in the past, but some very interesting shots in the album on Flickr, link below,  taken in the early 60's. Very high resolution scans as well, which is a bonus.

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmeTSoKz

 

Paul J.

[russ p]

What is with the double head signals on certain roads?

[robertcwp]

Not sure if these photos have been linked to in the past, but some very interesting shots in the album on Flickr, link below,  taken in the early 60's. Very high resolution scans as well, which is a bonus.

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmeTSoKz

 

Paul J.

Hi, this link appears not to work.

[Swindon 123]

What is with the double head signals on certain roads?

They are sort of junction signals, because there were more than one route available for departing trains. As a rough example this photo, https://flic.kr/p/2327gYE , shows the departure signals for Platform 7 (old numbering), and departures can be via two routes, D & C, so there is a signal indicating to each respective route, sort of the same as if the signal had semaphore arms instead of lights. Some signals that only had a single head, also had a roller blind route indicator, that diplayed the route being taken. If you are prepared to read through it with a fine touthcombe, all this can be gleaned from my album in Flickr about the Kings Cross resignalling done by the LNER, most of which was still relevent until the 1976/7 electrification resignalling scheme. My Flickr album of the LNER resignalling sceme can be found here. 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskvC1YEk

 

Paul J.