OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Craigw]

First impressions are of a fairly typical mid 1930s  (or later) mogul. The one anomaly being the tall safety valve cover which was becoming rare by the middle 1930's and decidedly atypical post war.  Hopefully they will replace  this with the lower type or (better still) provide both variants.

 

Anyway, an updated mogul is long overdue.

 

Craig W 

[Tom F]

34 minutes ago, Craigw said:

First impressions are of a fairly typical mid 1930s  (or later) mogul. The one anomaly being the tall safety valve cover which was becoming rare by the middle 1930's and decidedly atypical post war.  Hopefully they will replace  this with the lower type or (better still) provide both variants.

 

Anyway, an updated mogul is long overdue.

 

Craig W 

 

 

I had a re read of the original spec, and it does say they are planning to do tall and short safety valve fittings.

 

[7007GreatWestern]

My eyes could be playing tricks on me, but there appears to be a seam around the top feed supply-pipe covers and also around the base of the safety valve bonnet. Perhaps the bonnet and supply pipes are one separate component? If so it would be very easy to switch between safety valve types depending on the production run. I don't think I've seen that done before on any previous RTR GWR model.

 

[Miss Prism]

On 28/03/2019 at 22:29, Craigw said:

First impressions are of a fairly typical mid 1930s  (or later) mogul. The one anomaly being the tall safety valve cover which was becoming rare by the middle 1930's and decidedly atypical post war.

 

Standard 4 boilers were very numerous, but I agree the earlier 4s (with the taller valves) would have become rarer post-WWII.

 

The build window for the Standard 4 was (and I'm guessing a bit here) 1908-25 (???), so by the time of post-WWII, there wasn't much difference between an 'old' one and a 'newer' one.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Miss Prism

[Miss Prism]

A few more Moguls in lined BR(W) green:

6301, 6304, 6337, 6389
 

[Tom F]

Catalogue update from Dapol showing the current EP Mogul.

 

 

[Miss Prism]

Reference the numbering coverage noted in the Dapol catalogue update, the flanged motion plate was adopted from 5384.  (As discussed earlier in this thread.)

 

https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Churchward-Locomotives/Churchward-Tender-Locomotives/Churchward-4300-Class-Mogul/Churchward-Mogul/i-pKKs72G/A

 

 

Edited February 6 by Miss Prism
link added

[The Fatadder]

Have dappled given any indication about producing the later 93xx version with the Collett cab?

 

 

[lofty1966]

17 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Have dappled given any indication about producing the later 93xx version with the Collett cab?

 

 

 

Let's just get the 43xx's done first , eh?

[No Decorum]

8 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

Let's just get the 43xx's done first , eh?

So I’m not allowed to mention the first ones, which were shorter?

[mdvle]

Regarding any future versions, with 2 companies now competing I suspect both will be quiet about future plans to try and avoid giving an advantage to the competition, though how well that works given China is open to question.

 

It is also possible that any future variations will depend on sales given that the market is being split (depending on exactly how much of a market there is for these locos).

[lofty1966]

4 hours ago, No Decorum said:

So I’m not allowed to mention the first ones, which were shorter?

Of course you are, but seeing as they haven't even got the 43xx sorted, it's cart before horse.

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by lofty1966

[The Fatadder]

13 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

Let's just get the 43xx's done first , eh?

For me it’s quite a key point, I have a Malcolm Mitchell 43xx in my P4 fleet which I am considering re chassising to OO for Brent.  However I will also be needing a Collett example and would prefer them to be the same.  

 

If Dapol are only likley to do the Churchward design, then another kit build and the rechassis makes sense as I’d prefer both to match.  If they are doing it however I’m more likley to keep the Mitchell in P4 and go Dapol for OO

[Adrock]

Has anyone given any thought to putting the chassis from one of these under a Bachmann Manor? If I’m not wrong I think that the boiler of a Manor is slightly narrower than a 43xx, so hopefully Dapol haven’t made it to be a tight fit. Would the cylinders and driving wheels all line up, leaving the main challenge being fitting a replacement bogie? The tender would actually be accurate for a Manor, so all I’d need to reuse from the older model is the body. To avoid needing to do a repaint to make the two match I’d probably do a Manor in black. 

 

Thoughts?

[David Stannard]

2 hours ago, Adrock said:

Has anyone given any thought to putting the chassis from one of these under a Bachmann Manor? If I’m not wrong I think that the boiler of a Manor is slightly narrower than a 43xx, so hopefully Dapol haven’t made it to be a tight fit. Would the cylinders and driving wheels all line up, leaving the main challenge being fitting a replacement bogie? The tender would actually be accurate for a Manor, so all I’d need to reuse from the older model is the body. To avoid needing to do a repaint to make the two match I’d probably do a Manor in black. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 I would just prefer them bring out a Manor instead, I was never fond of how Bachmann fitted the crew in the cab.

[The Johnster]

The new Dapol chassis should fit into a Mainline/Bachmann Manor body, whether you use a mogul or a prairie as a donor.  The prairie boiler is a no.2. much shorter and smaller diameter than the Manor's no.14,  so a mechanism that can be fitted in this should be very easy to put into the Manor.

 

The Hornby large prairie chassis is presumably also suitable, not to mention currently available, as is the Grange.

 

Of course, if you try it you will have to make up your own fittings, attachments, and spacers/fillers.  A new RTR Manor is a frequent big hitter on wishlists and in polls, and one will eventually turn up, probably a Hornby or Dapol based on the existing mechs, but given the lead times required to develop models deze daze it would be a braver man than I as would predict when.  For all we know, one may be secretly in the pipeline, but if you want one now I'd suggest the Hornby large prairie chassis and some home made mountings would be the best way to go IMHO.

[Adrock]

21 hours ago, David Stannard said:

 

 I would just prefer them bring out a Manor instead, I was never fond of how Bachmann fitted the crew in the cab.

 

Im not sure the seated crew is the biggest problem with the Manor...! Also, on both of mine they are separate accessories that I’ve not fitted. 

 

I would agree that that it would be fantastic if someone brought out a new Manor - but many have been waiting for that for years and its still not happened, so I’m hardly going to pin my hopes on waiting for it. Options are kit build (I would probably commission someone to do that - quite expensive) or adapt what’s available (within my skill level). I’d therefore buy a 43xx as a donor to that end if it can be made to fit.  

[Adrock]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The new Dapol chassis should fit into a Mainline/Bachmann Manor body, whether you use a mogul or a prairie as a donor.  The prairie boiler is a no.2. much shorter and smaller diameter than the Manor's no.14,  so a mechanism that can be fitted in this should be very easy to put into the Manor.

 

The Hornby large prairie chassis is presumably also suitable, not to mention currently available, as is the Grange.

 

Of course, if you try it you will have to make up your own fittings, attachments, and spacers/fillers.  A new RTR Manor is a frequent big hitter on wishlists and in polls, and one will eventually turn up, probably a Hornby or Dapol based on the existing mechs, but given the lead times required to develop models deze daze it would be a braver man than I as would predict when.  For all we know, one may be secretly in the pipeline, but if you want one now I'd suggest the Hornby large prairie chassis and some home made mountings would be the best way to go IMHO.

 

Completely agree with your points. I’ve investigated use of a Grange chassis previously, but these are a tight fit into the Grange and therefore require quite a bit of work to fit inside the narrower Manor with older / thicker plastic body mouldings. 

[The Johnster]

You may have just hit on why H haven't put out a Manor as an addition to their Grange!  

 

If you wanted to get an old Mainline Manor running reliably and cheaply in a short time frame, the old Airfix 61xx appears fairly regularly and cheaply on 'Bay.  It's a bit crude by modern standards, noisier than a Class 37, and would need a lot of metal hacking off it. but is bombproof reliable and can, with a bit of TLC and removal of the traction tyre, be made to run reasonably well.  Later Hornby iterations may be better, but are not as easily obtainable. 

 

To get back to the 43xx/5101, it might be the basis of a 3150 prairie as well.  Or even a Collett 31xx, the ultimate large prairie with smaller driving wheels and a no.4 boiler.  

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

You may have just hit on why H haven't put out a Manor as an addition to their Grange!  

 

If you wanted to get an old Mainline Manor running reliably and cheaply in a short time frame, the old Airfix 61xx appears fairly regularly and cheaply on 'Bay.  It's a bit crude by modern standards, noisier than a Class 37, and would need a lot of metal hacking off it. but is bombproof reliable and can, with a bit of TLC and removal of the traction tyre, be made to run reasonably well.  Later Hornby iterations may be better, but are not as easily obtainable. 

 

To get back to the 43xx/5101, it might be the basis of a 3150 prairie as well.  Or even a Collett 31xx, the ultimate large prairie with smaller driving wheels and a no.4 boiler.  

How on earth do you get an Airfix 61XX chassis into a Manor?

 

[The Johnster]

You take a hacksaw to it, spend a bit of time thinking about someone you really don't like, become proper angry, and attack; all that mazak behind and to the sides of the motor has to be taken away and the thing reduced to enough metal to hold the axles, motor, and gears.  And don't ask me how to do it in detail, I've never attempted such a thing, but it ought to be possible.  Once that's done, you'll have to make mountings for the Manor body and it's possible that some cab detail down by the firehole will be compromised by the motor and have to be hidden with crew.  

 

It'd be better to build a kit chassis, or use one of the new Dapol or Hornby prairie chassis, which will also need a bit of surgery, or wait for a proper RTR Manor, but all of these solutions require elements of time and expense and a brass kit may require work outside your comfort zone; the Airfix suggestion was meant to be for anyone wanting an immediate solution on a limited budget, perhaps to rejuvenate a failed Mainline loco.  It should be within the capacity of anyone able to strip the chassis to it's components and just end up with the mazak block in a vice to cut down to size.

[melmerby]

56 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

You take a hacksaw to it, spend a bit of time thinking about someone you really don't like, become proper angry, and attack; all that mazak behind and to the sides of the motor has to be taken away and the thing reduced to enough metal to hold the axles, motor, and gears.  And don't ask me how to do it in detail, I've never attempted such a thing, but it ought to be possible.  Once that's done, you'll have to make mountings for the Manor body and it's possible that some cab detail down by the firehole will be compromised by the motor and have to be hidden with crew.  

 

It'd be better to build a kit chassis, or use one of the new Dapol or Hornby prairie chassis, which will also need a bit of surgery, or wait for a proper RTR Manor, but all of these solutions require elements of time and expense and a brass kit may require work outside your comfort zone; the Airfix suggestion was meant to be for anyone wanting an immediate solution on a limited budget, perhaps to rejuvenate a failed Mainline loco.  It should be within the capacity of anyone able to strip the chassis to it's components and just end up with the mazak block in a vice to cut down to size.

Precisely, not really a sensible project.

The amount of effort needed is surely better targeted towards making a new chassis from a) scratch or b) kit.

I've got a couple of Hornby 5101/61XX and the main difference is the motor now sitting on top of the chassis and driving the middle axle. They are quite nice runners with good haulage capability, the body shows it's age by the lack of detail.

 

IMHO a better bet RTR chassis wise for the Manor would be to start small and build up, e.g. an 0-6-0 chsssis re-wheeled and the extra bits added, rather than having to remove 75% of what's there.

[Coach bogie]

The Hornby Grange might be a good start as the manor/grange shared the same frames etc in 12" to the foot.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The Hornby Grange might be a good start as the manor/grange shared the same frames etc in 12" to the foot.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Not quite IIRC.

The Manor is shorter at the back end.

Grange:

 

Manor:

[B15nac]

I can't wait to see a new rtr manor with 21 century detailing I'm desperate for about 5 of them. 

 

Regards Neil