OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[Denbridge]

10 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Is it the Finecast kit?

 

I have one of the smaller variations over here. However, the Welsh allocated versions were usually the larger variety.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Wills/se Finecast do the small metro. Roxey, the medium and Jidenco/falcon did a kit that covered many if not most variants. I think it was Peter K who did a large metro. I'd need to go into my kit stash to confirm the latter.

[Harlequin]

44 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Of course. But the problem is, which ones and in which eras. Toplights are a minefield. Ask 10 modellers which ones they would like and you'll get 10 different answers:)

Best not to ask 10 modellers about anything if you want consensus!

 

I think, having been starved of such things, modellers would grab any version they could get! The various kits seem to be quite limited in variety and yet they sell steadily, AFAIK.

 

If not Toplights then some of the other common inter-war stock: Sunshines? Excursions? Concertinas? How about a Dreadnought?

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Harlequin

[Miss Prism]

Roxey planned to do a large Metro (their kit reference 4L18) but I suspect they never quite got it finished.

 

[Miss Prism]

 

 

 

Edited February 6 by Miss Prism
image reinstated

[Bulwell Hall]

27 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I never realised that they filled the water tanks through the safety valves!

 

Gerry

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

I think you will agree that it looks very 'model-able'. Enough, perhaps, to ask a producer to make something like this. It only really requires cordial conversation to start the ball rolling, if you get my drift.....

 

Ian.

[GWR8700]

A large Metro in rtr or as a kit would be much appreciated.

 

The new Prairie looks great.  Certainly is making me reconsider my Hornby pre-order.

I hope that Dapol do further variations in a similar way that they have done for the B4 and GWR railcars for future releases (hint hint 3150 class)

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

I think you will agree that it looks very 'model-able'.

 

Yes indeed, but then I am in your choir, Ian. And if there are 10 answers as to which Toplight is desirable, there will be 20 different answers on the most desirable Metro.

 

I've just reminded myself that Rod Neep did an etch for a large Metro tank. The artwork has probably disappeared to the four winds. A whitemetal kit for a large Metro is something SEF could do very well.

 

[brushman47544]

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Converted to BPGV line use?

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Yes, it's all my fault. But here's the thing: when one manufacturer assures you they had to make a recess in the front rear of the cylinder to allow the pony to clear, and the other manufacture assures you no such recess was necessary, who yer gonna believe?

 

Or does it make you wonder if the cylinders are in the right place?
 

 

I suspect one might go round sharper corners than the other...

 

Les

[tomparryharry]

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Yes indeed, but then I am in your choir, Ian. And if there are 10 answers as to which Toplight is desirable, there will be 20 different answers on the most desirable Metro.

 

I've just reminded myself that Rod Neep did an etch for a large Metro tank. The artwork has probably disappeared to the four winds. A whitemetal kit for a large Metro is something SEF could do very well.

 

 

Perhaps the way through this is to provide a 'mini poll'. We already know the subject in this case, but which time period is the most realistic to ask for?  Or, would you ask for an un-adorned model, and allow the modeller to finish it off? Basically, an RTR model, with all bells & whistles, or a cheaper model sold without adornment, and sold on the very strict understanding that if it turns out to be a pigs ear, it has no bearing on Dapols reputation. 

 

However, and more importantly, is that this is the first time (that I am aware of) where a level of detente has existed between producer & the wider clientele. Lets see how the Mogul & prairie shape up. 

 

Happy modelling,

 

Ian.

[The Stationmaster]

On 05/02/2020 at 12:42, Miss Prism said:

I don't suppose I'm the only one who thinks there is no coincidence between Hornby's factory closure and the sudden appearance of the much revamped Dapol Prairie CAD.

 

However if you read what is written in 'Railway Modeller' and has been quoted elsewhere on Rmweb the factory which closed is not the one which was producing the prairie.  As I understand things from other sources the factory producing the Hornby prairie is still in business - or was at the beginning of this year (UK calendar year that is).

 

As far as Toplights are concerned I know one manufacturer looked quite seriously at the possibility of doing some a few years ago and was driven off by the amazing complexity of 'which Toplights the market wants and in what condition' (the latter referring to the way many changed over the years).  Neal's excellent poll on the subject showed all too clearly the risks involved in lashing out hundreds of thousands of 3s on toolling up for Toplights and I have heard whispers that another manufacturer wondered about them - very briefly before seeing sense.  The answer is of course right in front of the nose of anybody who wants to take the risk - work out which ones will sell in commercial numbers, get a quote from a factory, and finance the job in some way or anotrher.  If they are such a surefire winner as some folk seem to think they are it should be easy to get together a valid business case and gather round friends and fellow modellers to join in the funding or get a loan from a bank or Funding Circle.  Oddly nobody has done it (yet??)

[Miss Prism]

24 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

However if you read what is written in 'Railway Modeller' and has been quoted elsewhere on Rmweb the factory which closed is not the one which was producing the prairie.  As I understand things from other sources the factory producing the Hornby prairie is still in business - or was at the beginning of this year (UK calendar year that is).

 

Thanks for that clarification, although I still can't help feeling Dapol is being opportunistic in the face of Hornby's woes, and it is obvious Dapol has been reworking their Prairie CAD in secret for some time. (Transformations like that don't happen overnight.)

 

My gut feeling is that Dapol is still considerably behind Hornby in terms of available product.

 

[TrevorP1]

56 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

My gut feeling is that Dapol is still considerably behind Hornby in terms of available product.

 

 

All being well we'll have the Mogul before long. If the Mogul is as good as it seems so far, I'll wait for the Dapol Prairie. I can't see the Prairie being here before next year in any case which suits me fine because the modelling budget is at full stretch at the moment. Large Prairies weren't common in Cornwall but I like them and one could become 4136 for me.

 

If we support Dapol, who knows we may get a Manor...

 

 

[tomparryharry]

16 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Thanks for that clarification, although I still can't help feeling Dapol is being opportunistic in the face of Hornby's woes, and it is obvious Dapol has been reworking their Prairie CAD in secret for some time. (Transformations like that don't happen overnight.)

 

My gut feeling is that Dapol is still considerably behind Hornby in terms of available product.

 

 

And that, my friend, is what business is all about. One mans misfortune (however caused) is another persons salary.

 

Sad, but that's the way it is.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Thanks for that clarification, although I still can't help feeling Dapol is being opportunistic in the face of Hornby's woes, and it is obvious Dapol has been reworking their Prairie CAD in secret for some time. (Transformations like that don't happen overnight.)

 

My gut feeling is that Dapol is still considerably behind Hornby in terms of available product.

 

I don't argue one bit with that Miss P.  I had heard from an impeccable source that Dapol had no intention of giving up on the prairie and that has now turned into a visible fact.  Although I do think one or two bits of detail are not as impressive as Hornby's - but CADs can be refined so that is hardly a valid comment until we see what is actually going to come out of the tooling.  

 

Judging by comparison of starting dates, if nothing else, Dapol are well behind Hornby but at this stage if design is wholly within house (or even in China) it won't have cost them very much to get to this stage.  The real. crunch comes with the cutting of metal which starts piling up the noughts behind the number you first thought of.  So if they wish Dapol have a break point on investment and if Hornby still haven't got their (long-drawn out) show on the retailers' shelves Dsapol might well step in.  But which ever must now depend on events in China but Hornby might still meet their most recent 'promises' if the models got on the boat before CNY.  We live in. interesting times as far as this potential competition is concerned.

[Hilux5972]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

CADs can be refined

Hattons reported that Dapol have released the Finalised CADs and that’s what I posted 2 pages ago. So I doubt there will be any further refining. 

[The Johnster]

On 05/02/2020 at 17:37, GWR8700 said:

I hope that Dapol do further variations in a similar way that they have done for the B4 and GWR railcars for future releases (hint hint 3150 class)

Seconded on general principle, can I add Collett 31xx to the mix?  And put in a plea for the Diagram N auto trailer to be put through the 4mm shrink ray?

 

As a general comment about the Metro, might it be viable for this to be supplied in CKD form with variations included in the box.  Cost would be ballpark the same as a 'normal' RTR with the CKD savings offset by the extra parts.  Or am I asking too much?  The approach might also work for other types that had a variety of forms in service, such as 2721.  

 

It's Sunday, too horrible outside to go up the pub, and I can be forgiven a petite but bijou wishlisting session, can't I?

[The Stationmaster]

On 07/02/2020 at 10:59, Hilux5972 said:

Hattons reported that Dapol have released the Finalised CADs and that’s what I posted 2 pages ago. So I doubt there will be any further refining. 

CADs only become 'final' when their contents are transferred into the cutting of tooling.  And even - then depending on what it is - small changes to the tooling remain feasible right up to final sign-off of the tooling for series production.

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Seconded on general principle, can I add Collett 31xx to the mix?  And put in a plea for the Diagram N auto trailer to be put through the 4mm shrink ray?

 

As a general comment about the Metro, might it be viable for this to be supplied in CKD form with variations included in the box.  Cost would be ballpark the same as a 'normal' RTR with the CKD savings offset by the extra parts.  Or am I asking too much?  The approach might also work for other types that had a variety of forms in service, such as 2721.  

 

It's Sunday, too horrible outside to go up the pub, and I can be forgiven a petite but bijou wishlisting session, can't I?

 

I accept it; It's all my fault. In our earlier postings, I made a comment about Metro tanks. By rights, I should have kept my wandering imagination & big mouth well & truly shut. 

 

My more important point is this:- As long as we, the clients,  keep a dialogue of detente with the manufacturers, then we can theoretically ask for all, or any, of the things we would like. The 2 way street situation is a start. If there is sufficient interest, the the manufacturers can work with a certain knowledge that it's a 'goer'.

 

What won't work (in my view) is failing to keep it polite , factual, and business-like. 

 

In any event, I wouldn't expect to see a Metro from Dapol, at least, not for a while. There is the Mogul & Prairie, and then the SECR  D class. We are, to be honest, way down the line. 

 

I apologise if my allusions to a Metro tank has got you all stirred up, but my point remains valid. You can catch more bees with honey, than vinegar!

 

Best wishes,

Ian.  

 

PS. I don't have an 'inside line' with Dapol;  just a very interested observer.

[The Johnster]

No, given their form in pre-grouping GW matters, the Metro is a natural Hornby product, perhaps in a train set with shorty clerestories.  Or a 517, or a retooled 2721.

 

No apology necessary, Ian, you have brightened my weekend two days running now!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

.. might it be viable for this to be supplied in CKD form with variations included in the box.  Cost would be ballpark the same as a 'normal' RTR with the CKD savings offset by the extra parts.  Or am I asking too much? ...

The fundamental difficulty is how  much it appeals - or rather fails to appeal - to the customer base. I look on all RTR as a kit that happens to have been assembled, so for me it is an appealing prospect. (The Oxford N7 has a lovely construction for those like me, the whole smokebox to cab spectacle plates assembly made in neat plastic mouldings detaches in one piece from the cast metal footplate, tanks and bunker, tinkerer's heaven.)

 

When I mentioned quite early on in the internet discussion of model railways that the first eight Bachmann mk1 models were effectively assembled clip together kits, and one could thus easily engage in such tricks as swapping the sides about to have different liveries either side, thereby 'altering' a train formation on a layout where trains could be viewed either side: well! What if I sold on such a model and someone got a gallimaufrey of this sort. Horrors! There was a strong undercurrent of 'the thing in the box must remain the thing that first came out of the box, WWEA'.

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

No, given their form in pre-grouping GW matters, the Metro is a natural Hornby product, perhaps in a train set with shorty clerestories.  Or a 517, or a retooled 2721.

 

No apology necessary, Ian, you have brightened my weekend two days running now!

 

Sorry old chap, I can't agree, any more than the Princess Elizabeth is a Bachmann product. The 14xx? Yes, quite correct. But! no-one has broached the Metro subject, even if it is a long way off. 

[The Johnster]

Should have worded it better; I mean that it is the sort of thing that Simon Kohler would regard proprietorially in the way that he publicly, on a tv programme, stated that the Terrier (which Hornby had originally obtained from Dapol) was 'our' model, as a response to Rails of Sheffield having the temerity to commission one.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Should have worded it better; I mean that it is the sort of thing that Simon Kohler would regard proprietorially in the way that he publicly, on a tv programme, stated that the Terrier (which Hornby had originally obtained from Dapol) was 'our' model, as a response to Rails of Sheffield having the temerity to commission one.

In the end it looks like Hornby have done very well out of the revamped Terrier, it's a pity they couldn't/can't bring the 14XX up to a similar standard.

The Terrier might not be perfect but it's here (and has been for some while) and at a reasonable price.

 

Hornby have been doing very nicely with small engines recently, two types of Peckett and a 48DS.