Should those who display at exhibitions engage with members of the public?

[rob D2]

Hmmm,

Interesting topic. I can't think of anything worse than standing behind a layout in a sweaty town hall for 2 days but admire those for which it floats their boat.

 

Firstly,

- I don't expect operators to talk if it puts them off, if they look busy I won't bother. I won't bother trying with all of them only if there is something I really want to know. There's already too many procrastinating rivet experts engaging them in 15 mins about the chimney on their engine .

 

Secondly ,

- just because they can make a great layout it doesn't imbue social skills or public speaking excellence. I'm there to see the trains not meet a soulmate.

 

Thirdly

- I hate this " paying public " thing. At best they get expenses I believe, it's not a job for gods sake. As long as they can get some trains moving I'm happy.

 

That's my 10p worth

[tomparryharry]

Different viewers want different things. Some are content to watch a layout in operation, some are happy to scrutinise the detail of the modelling, some want as much "activity" as possible, a few want to show off by pointing out what they think is wrong, others want to just chat, some want to discuss a particular feature in detail.

 

It is possible to satisfy everyone (except for the clever complainers) but it requires - depending on the layout - either extra "staff" or a reduction/cessation of regular operation for a period. The downside of that is bigger layout teams and hence (as has already been pointed out) more cost for the organisers. So, unless show visitors are willing to pay more for entrance, we will have to continue as things are.

 

As for interaction with the public, this young man came back with his grandfather to view London Road three times at Warley 2016, so was invited to try his hand. A little disruptive for the operators and viewers, but hopefully worthwhile.

 

New op training 2.jpg

 

How does all this fit with the idea of the completely scenic layout where the presentation focuses the viewer on the model and the operators are completely concealed? No interaction between operators and the public, but a more complete suspension of disbelieve in presenting the model.

That  lad might remember that day for the rest of his life, especially if those memories are positive. Well done to the operators of London Road. It takes a certain degree of 'enlightenment' which is sometimes missing today.

 

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

I usually take the shunting plank model to the Isle of Wight show in November. It generates a lot of social interaction, being a bit of a puzzle, a bit of model railway. Last year two lads 'had a go' with the layout, to such a degree of success, that I left them to it, and had a cup of tea! The upside of this is now that I have two 'new' operators for 2018, which allows me to socially interact with the public.

 

Can I 'trust' a new operator? Well, yes, you need to have a degree of trust. If you're running a Pendon level layout, then probably more trust is required, but a pretty standard 00 layout is not going to come to much harm. Of course, the 'operators' are the same age group, and can also engage with both younger & older visitors alike.

 

Me? More tea & sandwiches, and a chance to look over the other exhibits.

 

All sorts, I suppose.

 

Ian.

[chris p bacon]

Went to the CMRA exhibition at Stevenage the other weekend and while there asked a question at a demo stand, part way through the exhibitor giving the answer another person who was obviously known to the exhibitor sat down and proceeded with a very loud conversation to the point they started to swap phone pictures and completely forgot about me. I patiently sat and waited for a couple of minutes in case the exhibitor would finish his advice, but they seemed to be enjoying the 'Bromance' and I'd obviously gained the cloak of invisibility so I got up and walked away.  

I walked past an hour or so later and they were still engaged in their long lost love story, which is a shame as I got the feeling that it put others off sitting and enquiring. 

 

The best demo exhibitors are those that engage with whoever is sat in front of them no matter how simple the question may seem.

[Chris M]

Went to the CMRA exhibition at Stevenage the other weekend and while there asked a question at a demo stand, part way through the exhibitor giving the answer another person who was obviously known to the exhibitor sat down and proceeded with a very loud conversation to the point they started to swap phone pictures and completely forgot about me. I patiently sat and waited for a couple of minutes in case the exhibitor would finish his advice, but they seemed to be enjoying the 'Bromance' and I'd obviously gained the cloak of invisibility so I got up and walked away.  

I walked past an hour or so later and they were still engaged in their long lost love story, which is a shame as I got the feeling that it put others off sitting and enquiring. 

 

The best demo exhibitors are those that engage with whoever is sat in front of them no matter how simple the question may seem.

Totally agree. Exhibitors can exchange stories after the show - we usually head for the nearest Wetherspoons on the Saturday evening of a two day show in order to engage in polite conversation and gently complement one another. Or something like that.

If you build an exhibition layout then you want to take it exhibitions. For exhibitions to keep going they need paying visitors. It is therefore important to treat all visitors as important guests so they will come back another year.

[Jamiel]

Went to the CMRA exhibition at Stevenage the other weekend and while there asked a question at a demo stand, part way through the exhibitor giving the answer another person who was obviously known to the exhibitor sat down and proceeded with a very loud conversation to the point they started to swap phone pictures and completely forgot about me. I patiently sat and waited for a couple of minutes in case the exhibitor would finish his advice, but they seemed to be enjoying the 'Bromance' and I'd obviously gained the cloak of invisibility so I got up and walked away.  

I walked past an hour or so later and they were still engaged in their long lost love story, which is a shame as I got the feeling that it put others off sitting and enquiring. 

 

The best demo exhibitors are those that engage with whoever is sat in front of them no matter how simple the question may seem.

Thank You Chris.

 

This is exactly why I started the thread, it seems that almost everyone when sat down reading RMweb thinks that being courteous and chatting with people at exhibitions is a good idea but out in the real world good intentions are not always carried through. I have had exactly the same sort of experience at exhibitions.

 

Before coming to this thread I looked at the thread for the exhibitors who had an information stand at which I was ignored in favour of a 'bromance' conversation, lovely work, but I do not tick like, or the other boxes as if they can not give time at an exhibition then no response from me to them on the web. I am sure it will not affect them one little bit.

 

I also had an experience at the same show where in the middle of buying something someone from the hall where the exhibition was taking place shouted over me to tell the people at the stand that a door had been locked down now, or some such information. Those selling to me started talking with them about the situation while I stood there for a couple of minute bank notes in my hand waiting. I feel they should have said to the venue representative that they would deal with his information when they had finished with their customer, however I do understand when confronted with a polite customer and a loud self important person who could cause them problems over their stand if they don't immediately respond then perhaps they made the best decision. I was tempted to walk off the goods, and then to come and pay later, but I felt that would be descending to the level of the loud mouth.

 

I do accept that people who exhibit are not necessarily good communicators, but I am also very aware of a clique attitude among some modellers who will pass over someone they don't know in favour of one of their favourites.

 

Jamie

Edited January 27, 2018 by Jamiel

[tomparryharry]

I'm not a great lover of cliques myself. Very often, the clique exist to protect the weaker or insecure type of person. That said, as a generality, we 'are' the insecure ones. It can take a great deal of personal bravado to speak to a stranger.

 

I often go to exhibitions. If I want to talk to a particular exhibit, I'll start with "I do like that". The compliment being the opening line. As a rule, it's the reason you'll start in the first place. You want to 'talk' about the subject in hand. A polite conversation will open many doors, far more than you thought possible.

 

A smile opens many doors! Closing a conversation with "thanks for your time" (with the smile), or "thanks folks" leaves a positive impression.

 

Some will glare at the public: it's not always your problem, it could be something else. They could be reeling from the effects of N gauge, no sugar in the tea, or they've soiled their underpants. Someone might have bought unpleasant news, like the chocolate biscuits are missing.

 

The late Ian Hollis always took a 'spare' operator/social speaker/interactor along with Alkham. I learned a great deal from him, and I realised the person asking did, indeed wanted to ask pertinent points about the layout. Ian always encouraged the 'operators' to respond. It was part of the job.

 

Yes, don't be afraid to respond to the questions.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

I try to be proactive in talking to viewers when exhibiting.  Often you feel the viewer would like to ask something, but is unsure of the 'protocol'. I also try to exhibit from the front of the layout to make the interaction easier (also because I've spent time making it look good from the front and looking down on it from the top isn't as interesting).  Often, just a simple 'Hello' is enough to break the ice and start a conversation.

So, there I was, minding my own business. The bloke next to me kept trying to exhibit an 3-wheeled coach & elephant. Bit of a conversation point, though....

 

Ian.

Edited January 27, 2018 by tomparryharry

[Edwardian]

I'm not a great lover of cliques myself. Very often, the clique exist to protect the weaker or insecure type of person. That said, as a generality, we 'are' the insecure ones. It can take a great deal of personal bravado to speak to a stranger.

 

I often go to exhibitions. If I want to talk to a particular exhibit, I'll start with "I do like that". The compliment being the opening line. As a rule, it's the reason you'll start in the first place. You want to 'talk' about the subject in hand. A polite conversation will open many doors, far more than you thought possible.

 

A smile opens many doors! Closing a conversation with "thanks for your time" (with the smile), or "thanks folks" leaves a positive impression.

 

Some will glare at the public: it's not always your problem, it could be something else. They could be reeling from the effects of N gauge, no sugar in the tea, or they've soiled their underpants. Someone might have bought unpleasant news, like the chocolate biscuits are missing.

 

The late Ian Hollis always took a 'spare' operator/social speaker/interactor along with Alkham. I learned a great deal from him, and I realised the person asking did, indeed wanted to ask pertinent points about the layout. Ian always encouraged the 'operators' to respond. It was part of the job.

 

Yes, don't be afraid to respond to the questions.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

 'Agree' - 'Like' - 'Friendly/Supportive'

[Dava]

The little 014 table at the Mickleover 7mm NGA event today worked well. Quite a number of good conversations, people interested, two guest locos brought along.

 

A point I learned from Jim Read is to have a couple of chairs in front of the table so interested people can sit down. Especially important for those no longer youthful, with dodgy knees etc, like most of us. Gratifying to meet someone I first knew 30+ years ago,

 

Back to Platform 1 at Loughborough [GCR] tomorrow for the Winter Steam Gala to engage the public with the Bridge layout and the Canal Bridge appeal for £470k. I have to say its often easier and more enjoyable to engage with the public at rail events than it can be with some undergraduate students in one's day job, when they actually turn up for tutorial meetings [many do not] but refuse to respond to any questions or 'discussion' points relevant to their studies, however hard one tries. But that's another topic and I'd better be careful what I say.

 

Dava

[peterl]

Can sympathise with you there Dava

Peter

[Ravenser]

Went to the CMRA exhibition at Stevenage the other weekend and while there asked a question at a demo stand, part way through the exhibitor giving the answer another person who was obviously known to the exhibitor sat down and proceeded with a very loud conversation to the point they started to swap phone pictures and completely forgot about me. I patiently sat and waited for a couple of minutes in case the exhibitor would finish his advice, but they seemed to be enjoying the 'Bromance' and I'd obviously gained the cloak of invisibility so I got up and walked away.  

I walked past an hour or so later and they were still engaged in their long lost love story, which is a shame as I got the feeling that it put others off sitting and enquiring. 

 

The best demo exhibitors are those that engage with whoever is sat in front of them no matter how simple the question may seem.

 

I'm not defending that - but it's very important to realise that manning a demo or society stand is a completely different proposition to operating a layout. That's why references to trade stand experience and approaches are not really appropriate to this subject.

 

The only reason people on a trade stand / demo / society stand are there is to engage with the public. That is their first and pretty well sole responsibility

 

Layout operators are there to operate the layout. That is their first duty. Engaging with the public is a nice bonus

[chris p bacon]

I'm not defending that - but it's very important to realise that manning a demo or society stand is a completely different proposition to operating a layout. That's why references to trade stand experience and approaches are not really appropriate to this subject.

 

The only reason people on a trade stand / demo / society stand are there is to engage with the public. That is their first and pretty well sole responsibility

 

Layout operators are there to operate the layout. That is their first duty. Engaging with the public is a nice bonus

 

Having done both I understand that the both are different.

 

I still don't think that half way through giving an answer to a question it's polite to either butt in or give your attention wholly to another and from that point ignore the original questioner. 

[Junctionmad]

As both a visitor and an operator , I appreciate both sides of the argument. I am always conscious of diverting an operator from the layout and realise that in many cases layout struggle for enough operators and rarely have a knowledgable person available. Some layouts manage it better then others, and if a difficult to operate layout means operators can't talk , i except that.

 

After all it's an exhibition, a demonstration of one art, so to speak, it's not a commercial display of ones goods for sale ,

[Ravenser]

Having done both I understand that the both are different.

 

I still don't think that half way through giving an answer to a question it's polite to either butt in or give your attention wholly to another and from that point ignore the original questioner. 

 

I wasn't suggesting it was - just saying that it's not really relevant to layouts or their operators. Demo stands are a different ball-game

[tomparryharry]

I'm not defending that - but it's very important to realise that manning a demo or society stand is a completely different proposition to operating a layout. That's why references to trade stand experience and approaches are not really appropriate to this subject.

 

The only reason people on a trade stand / demo / society stand are there is to engage with the public. That is their first and pretty well sole responsibility

 

Layout operators are there to operate the layout. That is their first duty. Engaging with the public is a nice bonus

 

A bit of both, and in equal measure, if I might say. I've seen some fantastic exhibition kit that'll knock your socks off. But, the exhibitor looks painful, as if someone stuffed a rod up his bum. On the other hand, some exhibitor teams use it as a social occasion, in the wider sense.

 

It's wise to remember that the visitor may not have your sense of perspective. They might know every nail, cotter, dowel & rod on the level crossing, but not necessarily his full compliment of social interaction. You can't fill out a MENSA form to gain entry. That, is one of the great variables of the exhibition, from the neatly dressed & well-informed visitor, to the visitor whom wants to know why the tail lamp isn't lit, but will know how many square yards of cloth in the first-class dining car. You will get them all, from decorum to dandruff.

 

Happy exhibiting folks. 

 

Ian.  

[Jamiel]

I'm not defending that - but it's very important to realise that manning a demo or society stand is a completely different proposition to operating a layout. That's why references to trade stand experience and approaches are not really appropriate to this subject.

 

The only reason people on a trade stand / demo / society stand are there is to engage with the public. That is their first and pretty well sole responsibility

 

Layout operators are there to operate the layout. That is their first duty. Engaging with the public is a nice bonus

Dear Ravenser.

 

From my original post starting this thread.

 

"At one show in 2017, where a stand was set up to give information about a layout in its early stages with no stock or track to run, I was completely ignored by the two people at the stand (there were no others at the stand at the time). I had followed the planning of the layout on this forum and was looking forward to seeing the stand to learn more, especially as the stand at an exhibition had been publicised on the layout's thread."

 

It was the fact that people at a stand with no layout were prepared to ignore exhibition attendees that made me start this thread. I could accept it to an extent from those running a layout, but it was the cliquishness and rudeness of those at a demo stand that made me feel it was time to write something about this on the forum.

 

Those on trade stands can if they wish ignore people at exhibitions, but they will very quickly be punished in the form of missing sales. That is their choice.

 

Jamie

Edited January 28, 2018 by Jamiel

[tomparryharry]

Dear Ravenser.

 

From my original post starting this thread.

 

"At one show in 2017, where a stand was set up to give information about a layout in its early stages with no stock or track to run, I was completely ignored by the two people at the stand (there were no others at the stand at the time). I had followed the planning of the layout on this forum and was looking forward to seeing the stand to learn more, especially as the stand at an exhibition had been publicised on the layout's thread."

 

It was the fact that people at a stand with no layout were prepared to ignore exhibition attendees that made me start this thread. I could accept it to an extent from those running a layout, but it was the cliquishness and rudeness of those at a demo stand that made me feel it was time to write something about this on the forum.

 

Those on trade stands can if they wish ignore people at exhibitions, but they will very quickly be punished in the form of missing sales. That is their choice.

 

Jamie

It could be that both 'operators' are highly introvert. As we all know, that can be quite common amongst us railway modellers. Little wonder therefore, that they were shunning the light; they may be scared witless; clung to each other for the duration of an empty exhibition. It wouldn't be funny for the exhibitor, either. I can just imagine the visitor surveying the dersolate scene with thermos flask & Tupperware box in hand, saying; "Oooh, you've got the wrong period for 1948...."

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Chamby]

For operators, the motivations to exhibit are several.  Often the big one is the prospect of meeting up with old friends, and the social side of doing something together with a group of club mates or personal friends.  As well as getting free entry to an exhibition, the chance to mooch around the trade stands and other layouts.  There's also the knowledge that you are helping another model railway club to raise funds for its members and activities.  All in all, a nice day out.

 

I bet very few see 'interacting with the public' as top of their list.   Many of us so-called 'anoraks' are not that good at communicating with strangers face-to-face, which is why we immerse ourselves in the hobby and our circle of like-minded friends.  But if you take the team approach to exhibiting, having someone on the team who is naturally chatty with the hoy poloy on the other side of the barriers can take the burden off those who don't like it, AND transform public perception of the layout.

[Jamiel]

It could be that both 'operators' are highly introvert. As we all know, that can be quite common amongst us railway modellers. Little wonder therefore, that they were shunning the light; they may be scared witless; clung to each other for the duration of an empty exhibition. It wouldn't be funny for the exhibitor, either. I can just imagine the visitor surveying the dersolate scene with thermos flask & Tupperware box in hand, saying; "Oooh, you've got the wrong period for 1948...."

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

Except they were not operating a layout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

"At one show in 2017, where a stand was set up to give information about a layout..."

 

They were at a stand to publicise a layout, and talk to exhibition goers. If they were unable to talk to the public, the they should not have set up a stand to so do. They also were not shy, they were quite extrovert in their conversation between themselves. There was nothing to distract them except their own rudeness.

 

I have every sympathy for people operating a layout. I have none for demonstrators, not layout operators, who choose to ignore people at exhibitions.

 

Jamie

Edited January 28, 2018 by Jamiel

[Ian Smeeton]

It can be just as difficult for someone who is very shy to engage with demonstrators/exhibitors.

 

It does take a certain amount of courage for exhibitors/demonstrators to interact with the 'public'. I feel that many of the exhibits do need someone to be 'Front of House' Logistically, I know that it is not always possible.

 

Regarding Demonstrators, interrupting someone who is head down, and concentrating on their model can be quite intimidating to a visitor. The look SO serious. While there is no physical barrier, as there may be with a layout, I have often thought hat raising the Demonstrator up on some form of staging would be beneficial for a couple of reasons. First, it would bring their work up to a more viewable height for the visitor, and second, would place the visitor more in the line of sight of the demostrator, more likel;y to be noticed by someone visiting and curious, and less likely to end in backache for the visitor trying to see incredibly small stuff at table height, and neckache for the demonstrator conversing with a standing visitor.

 

At the Peterborough exhibition last year, I walked past Tony Wright several times, before plucking up the courage to talk to him. (and what a lovely and encouraging chap he is!)

 

At the Tutbury 2mm Supermeet a couple of years ago, if it hadn't been for Laurie Adams actively talking to me, I would probably have chucked in the towel there and then. I had been overawed by the quality and fine-ness, as well as the finesse of the modelling, and was of the opinion that my own efforts in 2mm FS were doomed to failure. I came away from there totally depressed, however, Laurie's invitation to come along to the North Mercia Area Groups meeting was the catalyst that set me on  my current path.

 

Today, at the Pontefract show, I felt confident enough to introduce myself at tyhe 2mm Roadshow stand, and couldn't have hopped to meet someon as nice as Andy Hanson (sp) the the 2mm FS Association Chairman. Not only that, but he had been reading my own thread here on RMWeb on building Scissors crossings, slips and diamonds. However, when wanting to ask a question of one of the demonstrators at the show, my courage deserted me.

 

Even when trying to buy some bits on a retailers stand, I had a hard time attracting the attention of one of three (under) emplyed staff there. (No names, no pack drill). On the other hand, Smart Models gave me exactly what I was after, advice, suggestions, and all the right bits to complete one of his kits. A++, there.

 

It constantly amazes me how many in this hobby are more than generous with their time and other resources to a relative and inexperienced newcomer. Even so, today, I found it quite difficult to enter into any sort of conversation with other exhibitors, as they either looked too busy, were too busy, or were in converstaion with others.

 

The only RMWeber who 'interacted' with me was Cavan of Burton on Trent In N, however his control system went into immediate meltdown, so after a few minutes watching him try to resurrect it , I melted away. Sadly both times I went past the layout later on, there was a good crowd, and I felt that I would have been intruding/interrupting to try and talk to him.

 

It took me many months of lurking on here before I even had the courage to post anything at all, and that is behind the anonymity of a keyboard, and an 'anonimised' user name.

 

On the other hand, put me behind the bar of my pub, and I will talk to all, for England. Even though I am Scottish.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[PaulRhB]

I think it's partly this 'celebrity' thing, although most of the model railway worlds 'celebrities' would be most surprised to find themselves labelled as such as they just consider they are sharing the fun

I've had a couple of chats with Pete Waterman on his stand who you'd think would have some sort of feeling of celebrity but all he was interested in was enjoying a chat about trains and came over as really nice chap who really knows his stuff.

On my layouts the guys usually direct most questions to me and grab the controller so I can chat without stopping the layout. That's why I have more than the base minimum number of people because shows are about sharing, gathering ideas and fun. I've been given as many useful hints and links as I've shared myself from someone chatting over my layout. I've also made several good friends who now entertain the public with their antics behind our layouts

[tomparryharry]

Except they were not operating a layout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

"At one show in 2017, where a stand was set up to give information about a layout..."

 

They were at a stand to publicise a layout, and talk to exhibition goers. If they were unable to talk to the public, the they should not have set up a stand to so do. They also were not shy, they were quite extrovert in their conversation between themselves. There was nothing to distract them except their own rudeness.

 

I have every sympathy for people operating a layout. I have none for demonstrators, not layout operators, who choose to ignore people at exhibitions.

 

Jamie

On that basis, I could well imagine that the repeat invite was 'lost in the post'.

[FPH 603]

I went to an Exhibition in 2017 at Castle Hill, NSW. With me I had my scratchbuilt model of a NSWGR 660 Class (at the time mainly just a shell) and I could hear people murmering "That's a 600 class! Oh look, he's got a 600 class!" That made me pretty happy to know people there liked it, even if they didn't quite get it right. I even got one of the staff asking if I had bought the model from the shop! Must have been pretty convincing! I then approached the scratchbuilders stand and immediately started asking questions. They were very happy to help and they liked what I had built as a second attempt at scratchbuilding in plasticard. One thing I remember them saying is "Make the chassis of the motor car out brass sheet, it will make it stronger". 

 

Personally I feel if you're going to show off your layout to the public at an exhibition, you should be well and truly engaging with the public. If I was in that position, I would actually put up a sign saying "Feel free to ask questions if you please!"

[roundhouse]

The show we were at the weekend, on one layout (Wickwar) one of the operators went out the viewing side and asked if anyone had questions.