Retooled class 47 in 7mm scale

[UP 4000]

On 16/01/2022 at 23:28, Baggies1961 said:

Not sure if this has been picked up or mentioned previously but I have two 47,s in both detail packs only two screws provided for the ploughs.

Thankfully at the moment I dont require them to be fitted.

 

The screws in the bag are to hold a EM2 speaker to the bodyshell roof, you remove the screws that'a already in holding the coupling housing 

and refit them with the plough in place,

 

Hope this helps,

Edited January 19, 2022 by UP 4000
spelling

[Valleysniper]

Hi All

 

Does anybody else's new retooled Class 47 have cracks in the femail connector bogie side frames to main bogie pin connector? Please see picture, in this case both bogies have the cracks as do another locomotive received, one loco the female connector on one bogie the top has sheared off. The matter currently under enquiry with supplier who is trying to find from their stock a class 47 that does not have issues as between 2 suppliers have had 3 Class 47's 1 of which sent back already  with numerous issues and 2 that are going back to supplier. All locomotives have had bent or crushed cab front upper handrails, some that look to have been previously poorly repaired, springs and parts of bogie fallen off. Buffers fallen off and other parts damaged and some have too much dust nibs in paintwork, almost as if Chinese sprayer has fag in one hand and spray gun in other.

 

It would seem Heljans quality control is non existant and the supliers are not checking the items before despatch.

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Valleysniper
Spelling and picture.

[UP 4000]

On 03/02/2022 at 14:04, Valleysniper said:

Hi All

 

Does anybody else's new retooled Class 47 have cracks in the femail connector bogie side frames to main bogie pin connector? Please see picture, in this case both bogies have the cracks as do another locomotive received, one loco the female connector on one bogie the top has sheared off. The matter currently under enquiry with supplier who is trying to find from their stock a class 47 that does not have issues as between 2 suppliers have had 3 Class 47's 1 of which sent back already  with numerous issues and 2 that are going back to supplier. All locomotives have had bent or crushed cab front upper handrails, some that look to have been previously poorly repaired, springs and parts of bogie fallen off. Buffers fallen off and other parts damaged and some have too much dust nibs in paintwork, almost as if Chinese sprayer has fag in one hand and spray gun in other.

 

It would seem Heljans quality control is non existant and the supliers are not checking the items before despatch.

 

 

 

 

Seeing this I've just checked mine and yes the same, all cracked,they are solid but may become a problem at a later date.

 

The loco was clean no marks but to go slightly off topic I had paint misses glue marks a dent on the roof and the bogie side frames the holes were oval and wouldn't stay on and that was on a 50.

[64F]

Has anyone swapped the underframes tanks on one of these to convert a short-tank model to a long-tank version (or vice versa)? 

 

I've recently bought the 1980s blue one (4860) with the intention of finishing it as a 47/0, which will involve replacing the underframe tanks with the longer type.  The Heljan parts diagram makes this look easy, as the two types of tank assemblies are shown as if they are single parts (the one I want being #146 "full underframe tanks for steam/dual heat locos").  However, elsewhere on the diagram part #146 is described as "fuel tank support brackets" only, which is what Gaugemaster's website also describes it as.  Gaugemaster also lists umpteen separate parts for the various tanks/pipes/covers, none of which are illustrated anywhere.  Evidently this is going to be more complicated than I had hoped, mainly because I'm at a loss to know what parts I'm going to need to buy and what I can reuse from the current underframe assembly.  Any advice would be gratefully received!

Edited June 8, 2022 by 64F

[blueeighties]

Hi. I have removed the tanks, as I need to make up some long range for a 47/7. I take it GM have just listed part numbers and descriptions, without images of the parts?

[Hal Nail]

Can't Gaugemaster advise on this?

[blueeighties]

I'll have a word with them tomorrow. The exploded spares diagram shows the tanks/battery assembly units as complete units, not 90 different parts. They really should be sold as complete units.

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, blueeighties said:

They really should be sold as complete units.

 

If something breaks, you only want to replace that part though.

[64F]

1 hour ago, blueeighties said:

Hi. I have removed the tanks, as I need to make up some long range for a 47/7. I take it GM have just listed part numbers and descriptions, without images of the parts?

 

1 hour ago, blueeighties said:

I'll have a word with them tomorrow. The exploded spares diagram shows the tanks/battery assembly units as complete units, not 90 different parts. They really should be sold as complete units.

 

Yes, the GM website just has descriptions of the parts, eg "Part 209, engine oil drain tank 3" and "Part 210, combination cover B" (which could be anything).  Of course there wouldn't need to be images of the parts if the Heljan parts diagram was sufficiently detailed.

 

I'd originally planned to buy the 1970s blue version as it comes with the correct tanks for a 47/0 and has the other type of boiler port which would have allowed me to model 47017 (a regular on Oxwellmains cement trains during my spotting days), and then to swap the headcode panels and add high intensity headlights.  However, in the end I decided to get the 1980s version and swap the tanks, but I'm starting to think I made the wrong decision...

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, 64F said:

 

 

Yes, the GM website just has descriptions of the parts, eg "Part 209, engine oil drain tank 3" and "Part 210, combination cover B" (which could be anything).  Of course there wouldn't need to be images of the parts if the Heljan parts diagram was sufficiently detailed.

 

I'd originally planned to buy the 1970s blue version as it comes with the correct tanks for a 47/0 and has the other type of boiler port which would have allowed me to model 47017 (a regular on Oxwellmains cement trains during my spotting days), and then to swap the headcode panels and add high intensity headlights.  However, in the end I decided to get the 1980s version and swap the tanks, but I'm starting to think I made the wrong decision...

 

There is a link of their website specifically for spares enquiries (if you really don't want to ring). I've always found them helpful "in person" (albeit sometimes not what I wanted to hear!)

 

I find the website poor but if you find a part number and use the form to enquire they get back to you quickly either way.

 

Interesting if the 47 spares are up already - that's far quicker than has happened historically.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Hal Nail

[64F]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

There is a link of their website specifically for spares enquiries (if you really don't want to ring). I've always found them helpful "in person" (albeit sometimes not what I wanted to hear!)

 

I find the website poor but if you find a part number and use the form to enquire they get back to you quickly either way.

 

Interesting if the 47 spares are up already - that's far quicker than has happened historically.

I'm happy to give them a ring, I just thought I'd ask here first as someone might have come across the same issue already and would know the answer, before I try to explain it afresh to someone at GM who might know just as little as me about what goes where under a 47.

 

When I find a solution I'll detail it here in case it is of use to anyone else contemplating the same thing. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by 64F

[D6775]

I've done a tank swap between an 80's TTG one with blue 1970's one. The 1970's one will eventually become an early 80's 47/4 without water tanks and get moved on. Probably something like 47580.

 

I've not got any pictures of 47114 post tank re-fit but I will get some at the weekend at Doncaster. 

 

Having just read the description and price for part No146 I am somewhat suspect that its not the full tanks, merely some brackets (PART 146 FUEL TANK SUPPORT BRACKETS £2).

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by D6775

[blueeighties]

Good evening. In a nutshell, a set of replacement tanks from GM will set you back in the region of £50. They are made up of many individual parts. I have the necessary parts numbers, and will post tomorrow when back with the workshop pc.

[D6775]

10 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Good evening. In a nutshell, a set of replacement tanks from GM will set you back in the region of £50. They are made up of many individual parts. I have the necessary parts numbers, and will post tomorrow when back with the workshop pc.

 

Jesus, glad I went down an alternative route. I'm sure I'll recoup what I paid for the donor. 

[64F]

3 hours ago, blueeighties said:

Okay so just to confirm for anyone who is interested, the required parts to make up the battery box version are.....

 

165 x2

166 x2

170 x1

171 x2

172 x2

174 x1

175 x1

176 x1

177 x1

178 x1

209 x1

 

I make that 15 parts @ £2 each, total of £30.

 

For the 'full fat' original water tank version.....

 

146 x1

147 x2

148 x2

149 x1

150 x1

153 x1

154 x1

155 x1

156 x1

157 x1

159 x1

160 x1

165 x2

166 x2

169 x2

170 x1

171 x2

172 x2

174 x1

175 x1

176 x1

177 x1

178 x1

 

Total of 31 parts @ £2 each total of £62

Many thanks for that, that is fantastic information.  I'm hopeful that I can disassemble the existing underframe details and re-use the common parts to keep the price down a bit.  My loco will eventually become Haymarket's 47209, and I'll post images of the conversion in due course.

Edited June 10, 2022 by 64F

[blueeighties]

1 hour ago, 64F said:

Many thanks for that, that is fantastic information.  I'm hopeful that I can disassemble the existing underframe details and re-use the common parts to keep the price down a bit.  My loco will eventually become Haymarket's 47209, and I'll post images of the conversion in due course.

Fab, excellent choice!

[James Hilton]

On 14/11/2021 at 09:39, neal said:

 

ok, here goes…working systematically remove the wires from the main pcb and set this aside. To avoid confusion I wired the relevant decoder terminals as I removed them from the board shown above.

 

1 is the common light and auxiliary +ve feed.  This would go to the blue connection on traditional decoders.

 

2-4 and 12-14 are the +ve feeds for lights, and these all go via the switches set to the underside of the chassis.  (The common supply connects to this, and the switches effectively distribute this power to the desired lights).  These wires do not need to connect to the decoder, simply connect the wires from 2 to those from 12, 3 to 13 and 4 to 14. Don’t forget the heat shrink!

 

5, 6, 15 and 16 are the directional light control returns.  If you are content for these to work on F0 and isolate them as required with the switches on the underside of the chassis, wires from 5 and 15 go to the front light decoder terminal (normally white) and from 6 and 16 to to the rear light decoder terminal (yellow).

 

If you want independent control of cab, head and tail lights via the decoder, these wires will need to be split and wired according to your desired decoder auxiliary outputs. Again the 9v battery will be useful in checking what wire controls  what.

For the Zen Buddha, connection would be as below, with relevant CV settings adjusted. For this approach there should be no need to isolate the feeds via the switches, these would all just be left ‘on’ with 2-4 and 12-14 linked as noted above.

 

My brain was hurting too much at this point so I left all lights operational on F0, and will use the switches on the chassis if I need to.

 

Track wires are correctly coloured, so wires to terminals 7, 8, 17 and 18 go ‘red and black to the track’ and connect to the relevant power terminals on the decoder. 

 

Motor wires in 9, 10, 19, 20 feed the two cans.  As normal, both motors are identical but need to run in opposite directions to avoid the bogies fighting each other.  Admit it, if you’ve done Heljan diesels before you will have got this wrong at least once!!!

 

I think 19 goes with 10 and 9 goes with 20 (but double check with a 9v battery).  
 

Again wire to the motor feeds on the decoder (orange and grey, ‘going the other way’).  I guessed which way and got it wrong (so the lights were set to the opposite ends) but with screw terminals this is an easy swap.  I should have checked the polarity of these with the battery, forward is the fan (radiator) end so check the polarity of the paired wires then wire motor +ve and -ve to relevant decoder terminals.

 

That leaves the fan output.  Retaining the fan pcb , this needs to be wired to a common +ve feed (blue),  then to an auxiliary return.  I used a purple connection on my decoder that mapped to F2, but these can normally be remapped to the desired Function key.

 

As I normally do, I desoldered the fan female connector from the main pcb, and added leads to connect to the decoder terminals such that the body (with fan and fan pcb attached) can be disconnected from the chassis and decoder easily.
 

There is another socket between fan motor and fan pcb, so you could remove the fan pcb from within the roof, and hard wire this to the decoder outputs, using the motor-pcb connector to split body from chassis (and leaving the original pcb unmolested).  But the leads are a little short for this, and the double sided holding the fan pcb to the roof is rather strong!

 

The above does leave something of a bird’s nest, but by sorting the cables as you disconnect and reconnect this can be managed (I used small cable ties).  The cable mess can be stowed below the plastic board (that supports the original pcb).  Your decoder can then be mounted above this.  I guess the mounting holes are for the recommended Loksound board, but there is plenty of room to fix another large decoder with double sided tape.  I found it easier to remove the plastic board, then slide between excess cable and decoder when connected.  Unlike some Heljan models (including latest 31 - grrr) there is plenty of slack in all of the wires such that these will not need extending, even if your decoder has all the terminals on the same ‘end’.

 

I hope this helps some people. I used a Zen Buddha which is fine for the model.  I may wire a sound-only decoder in parallel (as I have done with TTS chips for 31, 40 and 50).

 

 

Good luck, 

 

Neal

 

 

 

@neal sorry to be a pain, but since RMweb crashed and we lost a lot of the photos, these aren't showing. Could you re-upload the photos from your original very useful post (quoted above). Thanks!

 

[neal]

 

Sorry James, I appear to have deleted the second image.  Hope this helps,

 

Neal

[Hal Nail]

I took this as a reference shot today. Anyone know what the little shelf/bracket over the near windscreen is?

 

[D6775]

Looks like a GPS aerial but I didn't think 47's were ever fitted?

[Steadfast]

14 hours ago, D6775 said:

Looks like a GPS aerial but I didn't think 47's were ever fitted?

Yes it's GPS. Fitted in EWS days, 56s have a similar bracket.

60s, 66s and 67s still fitted.

 

Jo

[D6775]

19 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Yes it's GPS. Fitted in EWS days.

 

Jo

 

I couldn't recall the 47's being fitted! It was a fair while ago. 

[Steadfast]

13 minutes ago, D6775 said:

 

I couldn't recall the 47's being fitted! It was a fair while ago. 

Yes early 2000s I recall. Here's a link to Flcikr with a Res 47 with the GPS in 2002. Fitted at no.1 end only.

https://flic.kr/p/CWta7P

 

Jo

[brushman47544]

On 24/07/2022 at 11:27, Steadfast said:

Yes early 2000s I recall. Here's a link to Flcikr with a Res 47 with the GPS in 2002. Fitted at no.1 end only.

https://flic.kr/p/CWta7P

 

Jo

I would hope GPS was only fitted at one end. Can you imagine the fun if a loco had two and they gave different locations.

[hoover50008]

On 14/11/2021 at 09:39, neal said:

 

ok, here goes…working systematically remove the wires from the main pcb and set this aside. To avoid confusion I wired the relevant decoder terminals as I removed them from the board shown above.

 

1 is the common light and auxiliary +ve feed.  This would go to the blue connection on traditional decoders.

 

2-4 and 12-14 are the +ve feeds for lights, and these all go via the switches set to the underside of the chassis.  (The common supply connects to this, and the switches effectively distribute this power to the desired lights).  These wires do not need to connect to the decoder, simply connect the wires from 2 to those from 12, 3 to 13 and 4 to 14. Don’t forget the heat shrink!

 

5, 6, 15 and 16 are the directional light control returns.  If you are content for these to work on F0 and isolate them as required with the switches on the underside of the chassis, wires from 5 and 15 go to the front light decoder terminal (normally white) and from 6 and 16 to to the rear light decoder terminal (yellow).

 

If you want independent control of cab, head and tail lights via the decoder, these wires will need to be split and wired according to your desired decoder auxiliary outputs. Again the 9v battery will be useful in checking what wire controls  what.

For the Zen Buddha, connection would be as below, with relevant CV settings adjusted. For this approach there should be no need to isolate the feeds via the switches, these would all just be left ‘on’ with 2-4 and 12-14 linked as noted above.

 

My brain was hurting too much at this point so I left all lights operational on F0, and will use the switches on the chassis if I need to.

 

Track wires are correctly coloured, so wires to terminals 7, 8, 17 and 18 go ‘red and black to the track’ and connect to the relevant power terminals on the decoder. 

 

Motor wires in 9, 10, 19, 20 feed the two cans.  As normal, both motors are identical but need to run in opposite directions to avoid the bogies fighting each other.  Admit it, if you’ve done Heljan diesels before you will have got this wrong at least once!!!

 

I think 19 goes with 10 and 9 goes with 20 (but double check with a 9v battery).  
 

Again wire to the motor feeds on the decoder (orange and grey, ‘going the other way’).  I guessed which way and got it wrong (so the lights were set to the opposite ends) but with screw terminals this is an easy swap.  I should have checked the polarity of these with the battery, forward is the fan (radiator) end so check the polarity of the paired wires then wire motor +ve and -ve to relevant decoder terminals.

 

That leaves the fan output.  Retaining the fan pcb , this needs to be wired to a common +ve feed (blue),  then to an auxiliary return.  I used a purple connection on my decoder that mapped to F2, but these can normally be remapped to the desired Function key.

 

As I normally do, I desoldered the fan female connector from the main pcb, and added leads to connect to the decoder terminals such that the body (with fan and fan pcb attached) can be disconnected from the chassis and decoder easily.
 

There is another socket between fan motor and fan pcb, so you could remove the fan pcb from within the roof, and hard wire this to the decoder outputs, using the motor-pcb connector to split body from chassis (and leaving the original pcb unmolested).  But the leads are a little short for this, and the double sided holding the fan pcb to the roof is rather strong!

 

The above does leave something of a bird’s nest, but by sorting the cables as you disconnect and reconnect this can be managed (I used small cable ties).  The cable mess can be stowed below the plastic board (that supports the original pcb).  Your decoder can then be mounted above this.  I guess the mounting holes are for the recommended Loksound board, but there is plenty of room to fix another large decoder with double sided tape.  I found it easier to remove the plastic board, then slide between excess cable and decoder when connected.  Unlike some Heljan models (including latest 31 - grrr) there is plenty of slack in all of the wires such that these will not need extending, even if your decoder has all the terminals on the same ‘end’.

 

I hope this helps some people. I used a Zen Buddha which is fine for the model.  I may wire a sound-only decoder in parallel (as I have done with TTS chips for 31, 40 and 50).

 

 

Good luck, 

 

Neal

 

 

Any chance you could repost the pictures associated with this post please if you still have them Neil, I have got a couple to crack on with - cheers E