sem34090's Workbench, Layout and General Wittering

[sem34090]

Progress has been happening on the LNWR 'Jubilee' 4-4-0 quite nicely and it is already clear that it fits the chassis much better than the T3. I will be spending all of tomorrow on this loco, and hope to have it ordered on/by Thursday in the vain hope it may arrive before the end of the month.

 

On another note, can anyone recommend a source of LNWR Name and Number plates for both a member (any) of this class and for the coal tank. The former being most important. I note that Narrow Planet offer custom LNWR Numberplates, but their lead time is far too long for what I require, and they don't offer nameplates.

[TurboSnail]

On another note, can anyone recommend a source of LNWR Name and Number plates for both a member (any) of this class and for the coal tank.

 

Fox Transfers do a load of etched stuff, they might have something. If you can't find anything, I've seen people 3D print nameplates in high-definition materials and not look too bad, although they're still not a match for etched ones.

 

Having said that, the LNWR plates look rather flat anyway, could you perhaps print them onto thin card or something?

[Andy Hayter]

Progress has been happening on the LNWR 'Jubilee' 4-4-0 quite nicely and it is already clear that it fits the chassis much better than the T3. I will be spending all of tomorrow on this loco, and hope to have it ordered on/by Thursday in the vain hope it may arrive before the end of the month.

 

On another note, can anyone recommend a source of LNWR Name and Number plates for both a member (any) of this class and for the coal tank. The former being most important. I note that Narrow Planet offer custom LNWR Numberplates, but their lead time is far too long for what I require, and they don't offer nameplates.

 

http://www.247developments.co.uk/PRE_GROUPING_1.html

 

Any use for the coal tank?

[sem34090]

Possibly... 

Edited April 10, 2018 by sem34090

[RedGemAlchemist]

Progress has been happening on the LNWR 'Jubilee' 4-4-0 quite nicely and it is already clear that it fits the chassis much better than the T3. 

Hmm. I'd been thinking of "Easternising" a T3 for my own railway at some point to be honest. Any companies make an RTR version of it?

Edited April 10, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

No Ready-to-Run T3 I'm afraid, and the brassmasters kit is very expensive.

[Regularity]

It’s also very good...

 

Divide the price by the couple of hundred hours required to do the kit justice, and it’s remarkably cheap.

[RedGemAlchemist]

It’s also very good...

 

Divide the price by the couple of hundred hours required to do the kit justice, and it’s remarkably cheap.

Fair.

The issue would more be, and sem is really going to frown at me for this, I'd want to James Holden-ify it.

That and I don't own nor know how to use a soldering iron, at the very most not yet.

Edited April 11, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

It’s also very good...

 

Divide the price by the couple of hundred hours required to do the kit justice, and it’s remarkably cheap.

I don't doubt it! It's just I don't have £170 for the etchings and castings, £60 for the tender and the rest of the money to buy the wheels, gearbox and motor. I don't doubt the value for money, but I don't call £230+ 'cheap' ever. If I had that sort of money then I probably wouldn't be bothering with 3D Printing, the quality of a well-built brass kit being so, so, much higher. Unfortunately I have found 3D printing to be the cheapest method of getting the models I want, even when an RTR offering is available.

 

Fair.

The issue would more be, and sem is really going to frown at me for this, I'd want to James Holden-ify it.

That and I don't own nor know how to use a soldering iron, at the very most not yet.

 

I suspect that you would also be put off, or (more accurately put) be unable to afford the kit at the moment. 

 

As Holden-fying it, I really can't see much that would need changing. As for GER-ifying, all you need are a couple of pots of paint! Adams was on the GER for a time, and quite a bit of his influence lingered.

 

Anyway:

On the left is where it was at Yesterday, on the right where it was at a very short time ago. An LNWR 'Jubilee' Class 4-4-0 to replace the failed  attempt at a T3.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by sem34090

[RedGemAlchemist]

I don't doubt it! It's just I don't have £170 for the etchings and castings, £60 for the tender and the rest of the money to buy the wheels, gearbox and motor. I don't doubt the value for money, but I don't call £230+ 'cheap' ever. If I had that sort of money then I probably wouldn't be bothering with 3D Printing, the quality of a well-built brass kit being so, so, much higher. Unfortunately I have found 3D printing to be the cheapest method of getting the models I want, even when an RTR offering is available.

 

 

I suspect that you would also be put off, or (more accurately put) be unable to afford the kit at the moment. 

Yes, I am put off by the money as well for the kit. I don't have that kind of cash!

 

As Holden-fying it, I really can't see much that would need changing. As for GER-ifying, all you need are a couple of pots of paint! Adams was on the GER for a time, and quite a bit of his influence lingered.

 

Anyway:

Untitled.png

On the left is where it was at Yesterday, on the right where it was at a very short time ago. An LNWR 'Jubilee' Class 4-4-0 to replace the failed  attempt at a T3.

Hmm. Forgot about Adams' time with the GER. 

Very nice. You're doing a good job there, sem. 

[sem34090]

A lot of people seem to neglect the fact that there are quite a few people who are not so much unwilling to buy and build kits but are simply unable to afford them! I challenge you all to find a kit on ebay for under £10, with £10 being your limit with postage included. At this moment in time that is my modelling budget limit. If you can't find one for under £10, all in, then try and find one for under £20 all in.

 

Although Adams himself didn't design all that much for the GER, you can see his influence in later designs, most notably the stovepipe chimney, but also the boiler and cab designs.

[Skinnylinny]

That's looking rather nice... Any chance of a side view?

I can offer you a coach kit for under £10, not including postage though... or wheels, buffers and all the detailing parts. And mine are made of paper! (Well, card...)

Edited April 11, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[sem34090]

I'll do a side-view later...

 

Are you referring to my previous suggestion of me sending you artwork? Or would that be in exchange for one 4-4-0?!

[Skinnylinny]

Haha it'd need a few coaches in exchange for one 4-4-0... Besides, I may also have a secret loco project coming up...  and might need to seek some assistance from you!

Edited April 11, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[sem34090]

I await your email with interest!

 

I'll have to do some coach artwork then...

[sem34090]

 

There's a tender issue sorted in only an hour...

 

(They really need a groan rating option...)

[Regularity]

I don't doubt it! It's just I don't have £170 for the etchings and castings, £60 for the tender and the rest of the money to buy the wheels, gearbox and motor. I don't doubt the value for money, but I don't call £230+ 'cheap' ever. If I had that sort of money then I probably wouldn't be bothering with 3D Printing, the quality of a well-built brass kit being so, so, much higher. Unfortunately I have found 3D printing to be the cheapest method of getting the models I want, even when an RTR offering is available.

 

I suspect that you would also be put off, or (more accurately put) be unable to afford the kit at the moment. 

 

 

As you say, it isn't cheap, but it does represent excellent value for money.

There is as much joy in building the kit as playing with it afterwards. And if you don't ascribe to this view, then the kit is an expensive waste of money!

 

This is one of RMWeb's more common circular arguments.

Quite simply, the developer of this kit did it for a living, so needs to include his time researching the prototype, developing the artwork for the phototools, patterns and test building and revising the product, plus creating the instructions - which most one-man operations reckon to take as long as designing the kit.

 

On top of this is the production of the etchings and castings, plus the investment against future sales, i.e. buying all the bits required for kits which may not sell immediately. Plus storing them.

 

And when Brassmasters bought the range, they were paying for the intellectual property rights, and to some degree for the future revenue of sales.

They need to recover this.

 

At the moment, you don't have any reason or need to consider the costs of research, development etc, as you are not doing it as your primary way of generating an income, so 3D printing is fine for you.

You also raise some interesting points about the economic future of some parts of the hobby - which is what Shapeways have bought into.

 

 

That and I don't own nor know how to use a soldering iron, at the very most not yet.

 

Another common thread.

All I will say is a hot iron of sufficient heat (power), plus cleanliness, cleanliness and cleanliness: scrub things clean, chemically clean with flux, and where possible, tin (apply a very thin coat of solder) everything first. Put the pieces together, apply flux and iron. Job done.

[Caley Jim]

I'm afraid I find building etched kits somewhat addictive.  When I've been doing something else in another medium, I find myself suffering from withdrawal symptoms and before I know what's happening I'm reaching for the soldering iron again.   

 

Jim

[RedGemAlchemist]

A lot of people seem to neglect the fact that there are quite a few people who are not so much unwilling to buy and build kits but are simply unable to afford them! I challenge you all to find a kit on ebay for under £10, with £10 being your limit with postage included. At this moment in time that is my modelling budget limit. If you can't find one for under £10, all in, then try and find one for under £20 all in.

 

Although Adams himself didn't design all that much for the GER, you can see his influence in later designs, most notably the stovepipe chimney, but also the boiler and cab designs.

Well I found this Dapol Pug kit for just OVER £10 total. The issue would be motorising it and adding couplings, hence why I didn't just use one of these in my own epic quest.

 

Hmm. Yeah, I see what you mean actually there.

Edited April 11, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

I do enjoy making locos and stock, and certainly agree that it is very satisfying to create a model and then play with it!

 

I also don't dispute the reasoning behind the high prices, but understanding and accepting the reasoning does not permit my buying of one. In time I hope I will be able to build more (I have built one wagon!) etched kits and also hope to own a T3 in 4mm scale. Whether one will lead to the other is yet to be seen. Nowadays it is not even a case for me that 'RTR is cheaper therefore I won't buy the kit'. I will always follow the cheapest option, as that's all I can afford! I would say that my maximum spend on a single railway item from now will have to be about £100, and that takes a good few months of saving. 

 

As a specific example, I present the Andrew Barclay 14'' 0-4-0ST. I have desired one of these locos for some time, and had the following options.

• ARC Models Cast Resin kit.
• DJH Cast Whitemetal Kit.
• Design 3D CAD to fit RTR Chassis.
• Scratchbuild to fit RTR Chassis.

Then, as now, the main RTR 0-4-0 Chassis option was the Hornby/Dapol L&YR Class 21. These locos for some reason prove to be rather expensive on the second hand market, and a decent one seems to be going for around £50 these days. The ARC Kits were, I think, selling for around £30 thus making this option come to £80 for the body and chassis. Unfortunately, ARC ceased trading before I had bothered to get hold of one of their kits. This left the next option, the DJH kit, as the only kit available.

 

Now, the DJH kit is nice in as much as it is a bundle that contains all of the required parts to build the loco. Unfortunately, however, at £180 I could not afford this option.

 

By the time I had begun investigating the CAD option, Hornby had released their Peckett W4. Now, I was very lucky to get one of these, and it was partly paid for by a Dapol Pug that I had purchased with the Andrew Barclay in mind. The new chassis was much better suited to the job, but in the end I fell in love with the Peckett and couldn't bring myself to hack it up! Had I used the new chassis for the CAD project, it would have pushed my Barclay to over £100. I planned to get hold of another cheap Pug once the hole in my modelling budget had healed. Had I not been able to do the CAD, I would have scratchbuilt.

 

In the event, Hattons announced their new 14'' Andrew Barclay before I was able to get hold of another pug. I decided to weigh up my options:

• DJH Kit - £180. Satisfying, but 8-10 months of saving.
• 3D CAD for Pug chassis - £20 (Print) + £50 (Donor) = £70. About 3-5 Months Saving, If I could get a Pug. Not especially satisfying as very little actual building. Also a heavy compromise.
• Hattons RTR Model - £99. About 5-6 Months Saving, Not as satisfying but a far more reliable result.
• Scratchbuilt to fit Pug Chassis - £5 (Plasticard) + £10 (Other bits) + £50 (Donor) = £60 Not much saving, but reliant on getting a pug.

In the event I opted to save up for a Hattons one as it offered the best compromise for me. In this instance it was not the cheapest, but offered the most reliable bet for an accurate model. Had I the funds I would still be considering the DJH kit, but that was ruled out on cost grounds from the start. Also, 10 months of virtually no model railway expenditure is a bit more awkward than 5 months of little expenditure.

[RedGemAlchemist]

I do enjoy making locos and stock, and certainly agree that it is very satisfying to create a model and then play with it!

For me, I agree entirely. This, along with the price and the fact I love to design my own stock and locos, is the reason I exclusively do RTRbashing for that stuff.

 

I also don't dispute the reasoning behind the high prices, but understanding and accepting the reasoning does not permit my buying of one. In time I hope I will be able to build more (I have built one wagon!) etched kits and also hope to own a T3 in 4mm scale. Whether one will lead to the other is yet to be seen. Nowadays it is not even a case for me that 'RTR is cheaper therefore I won't buy the kit'. I will always follow the cheapest option, as that's all I can afford! I would say that my maximum spend on a single railway item from now will have to be about £100, and that takes a good few months of saving. 

 

As a specific example, I present the Andrew Barclay 14'' 0-4-0ST. I have desired one of these locos for some time, and had the following options.

• ARC Models Cast Resin kit.
• DJH Cast Whitemetal Kit.
• Design 3D CAD to fit RTR Chassis.
• Scratchbuild to fit RTR Chassis.

Then, as now, the main RTR 0-4-0 Chassis option was the Hornby/Dapol L&YR Class 21. These locos for some reason prove to be rather expensive on the second hand market, and a decent one seems to be going for around £50 these days. The ARC Kits were, I think, selling for around £30 thus making this option come to £80 for the body and chassis. Unfortunately, ARC ceased trading before I had bothered to get hold of one of their kits. This left the next option, the DJH kit, as the only kit available.

 

Now, the DJH kit is nice in as much as it is a bundle that contains all of the required parts to build the loco. Unfortunately, however, at £180 I could not afford this option.

 

By the time I had begun investigating the CAD option, Hornby had released their Peckett W4. Now, I was very lucky to get one of these, and it was partly paid for by a Dapol Pug that I had purchased with the Andrew Barclay in mind. The new chassis was much better suited to the job, but in the end I fell in love with the Peckett and couldn't bring myself to hack it up! Had I used the new chassis for the CAD project, it would have pushed my Barclay to over £100. I planned to get hold of another cheap Pug once the hole in my modelling budget had healed. Had I not been able to do the CAD, I would have scratchbuilt.

 

In the event, Hattons announced their new 14'' Andrew Barclay before I was able to get hold of another pug. I decided to weigh up my options:

• DJH Kit - £180. Satisfying, but 8-10 months of saving.
• 3D CAD for Pug chassis - £20 (Print) + £50 (Donor) = £70. About 3-5 Months Saving, If I could get a Pug. Not especially satisfying as very little actual building. Also a heavy compromise.
• Hattons RTR Model - £99. About 5-6 Months Saving, Not as satisfying but a far more reliable result.
• Scratchbuilt to fit Pug Chassis - £5 (Plasticard) + £10 (Other bits) + £50 (Donor) = £60 Not much saving, but reliant on getting a pug.

In the event I opted to save up for a Hattons one as it offered the best compromise for me. In this instance it was not the cheapest, but offered the most reliable bet for an accurate model. Had I the funds I would still be considering the DJH kit, but that was ruled out on cost grounds from the start. Also, 10 months of virtually no model railway expenditure is a bit more awkward than 5 months of little expenditure.

Hmm. Comprehensive and interesting. My thought process is... a little less thorough.

1. Have a general idea of what I want to do.
2. Find donor locos / body shells / etc. for as cheap as humanly possible.
3. Work out what I'm doing.
4. Bash the parts into roughly what my idea was. 
5. Profit!

Also I'd love a Hornby Peckett. But I'll likely never be able to afford one in good working condition.

[TurboSnail]

I just wish someone like Hornby would make simple chassis available as spares - Peter's spares used to sell the RailRoad chassis (chassii, chassises?), fully assembled as spares items, but they've stopped doing it as Hornby won't sell them separately any more. Would have been a great source of 0-4-0 (£14.99) and 0-6-0 (£19.99) chassis for kitbashing/RTRbashing/scratchbuilding.

 

I will always follow the cheapest option, as that's all I can afford! I would say that my maximum spend on a single railway item from now will have to be about £100, and that takes a good few months of saving. 

 

That's pretty much where I am too, I'm currently developing a 3D printed chassis for the Wrenn R1 because the etched/cast options are too much for me to afford. The full SE Finecast kit will cost about £110 before motors and gears are added - even though I'm planning to use the same (frighteningly expensive!) wheels, my chassis with a detailed Wrenn body should be less than half that. Will it be as accurate? No, but I'll be having more fun building it and playing with it than dreaming about maybe owning one after several months of saving 

 

As an aside, it's not just the modellers feeling skint, I'm in a hotel for a job interview and someone's nicked both the shower curtain and the batteries out of the TV remote!

[Skinnylinny]

Which wheels are you looking to use? I've found Scale Link do Romford-compatible wheels, but being plastic-centered rather than metal, they're quite a bit cheaper. Still a sting to the wallet, but they can help reduce it a bit!

[TurboSnail]

Which wheels are you looking to use?

 

Yep, I'm using scale-link. To me, they seem like the best of both worlds, the self-quartering of the Romford style and the more detailed plastic centres of the Alan Gibson type. That they're also the cheapest is just an added bonus!

[Regularity]

Unfortunately I have found 3D printing to be the cheapest method of getting the models I want, even when an RTR offering is available.

 

If you define a model as a “representation of something real”, then I think I must correct you on that statement. Is this not even cheaper?

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131654-virtual-pre-grouping/?p=3124869