Up to date information on DCC decoders

[chriswright03]

I have searched the forum for up to date information as I am looking to buy decoders for a pair of DMU's that I have bought.  Sadly most of the information is ages old and as such probably no longer a true reflection of the current (no pun intended) situation.

 

My search so far in an effort to find out what to buy has revealed the following:-

 

Bachmann appear to have replaced their decoder with a new one but it has the same number and apparently is not as good. Plus I see on Youtube that the Emergency stop doesn't work unless that has since changed.

 

DCC Concepts decoders seem to have serious issues with stopping and starting again so unless that has changed not viable.

 

Zimo appear to be in trouble financially.

 

There are others mentioned but rather than bore everyone with them all I would just ask what is now considered to be a decent quality decoder (non sound).  I am looking at both 8 and 21 pin and also a function only decoder.

 

A name that has cropped up that I have not seen before is LaisDCC that Digitrains are advertising.  Other than that if I look at the usual sellers as in Rails, Hattons, Derails and so forth there seems to be very little choice other than those mentioned that it would appear are all known to have issues.

 

So without looking at threads that started in 2013 or not far off it is difficult to know what is the pick of the crop currently.  Any ideas would be much appreciated and no doubt by others as well in the weeks and months to come.

Edited January 26, 2018 by chriswright03
Correct name of supplier

[ROSSPOP]

ZIMO........... DIGITRAINS..............

 

 

 

Cheers

 

John

[Oldddudders]

DCC Supplies are a dealer, not a manufacturer. They sell a wide range of brands. 

 

I am still buying Zimo, as they work and are affordable. I have them in 8-pin and Next 18 configs with no problems at all. In 20 years of DCC and dozens of locos from multiple brands, UK, US and European I have had very few decoder failures in service, so if Zimo disappear I am not worried about warranties. Anyway, at £20-ish a pop who is?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Modern RTR OO mechanisms need nothing more than the very economical Lenz Standard for motor control. Alternative the Zimo MX 600, and for anything that isn't modern standard and requires extensive adjustment to obtain good running, the same. (This is from the perspective of seeing DCC as a utility, so buy the cheapest that does the job to the required standard. For so long as they remain available I am unlikely to purchase any but the two decoders mentioned.) 

 

If a decoder is required as a light switch for an un-motored vehicle, anything will do. (I mostly use discarded decoders removed from 'DCC fitted' Bachmann and Hornby purchases bought when well discounted. A good feature of DCC fitted locos is that they often go for less than the regular DCC ready version, when discount time comes around...)

[chriswright03]

I have in the past used the Zimo decoders and had sort of made my mind up to go that way or the Lenz but was intrigued by the new name (to me) on the block LaisDCC and wondered if anyone has any experience with them.

 

My mistake earlier Ian.  I should have said DCC Concepts.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128193-dcc-concepts-z18-new-version-6-function-decoders/

[Ron Ron Ron]

My mistake earlier Ian.  I should have said DCC Concepts.

 

 

 

 

It might be a good idea to go back and edit your OP Chris.

 

 

.

[chriswright03]

Done thanks Ron.

 

While I am here I would just like to thank John for the video but I have said Non sound just to clarify.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Bachmann appear to have replaced their decoder with a new one but it has the same number and apparently is not as good. .....

 

"..their decoder..." ????

 

Which one is that then?

Bachmann sell several different decoders under their own brand name.

 

I think the one you are talking about is probably the 36-557 ?

This is a 21-pin decoder.

Originally this was a rebadged Soundtraxx decoder (green colour), but was replaced with a re-badged ESU decoder (blue colour) sometime last year.

Most weirdly...and unhelpfully.... Bachmann have re-used the same model number for a completely different decoder!

 

If anything, the new one is better.

(It's a rebadged ESU LokPilot Standard).

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....was intrigued by the new name (to me) on the block LaisDCC and wondered if anyone has any experience with them.

 

 

 

 

A Chinese manufacturer.

I'm not sure whether or not they've previously been one of the suppliers of cheap, own branded decoders sold by the likes of Gaugemaster and Hattons etc.

 

 

http://laisdcc.com/about-us/

 

.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[chriswright03]

Yes Ron that is the one I was talking about.  I read your input in another thread about it and that is why it is included.  I realise I could have posted links to all of the threads I have read during my lengthy but fruitless research this morning but thought it better just to get to the chase.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68254-Bachmann-36-557-21-pin-decoder/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2931255

 

OK I know that your post is only two months old but nevertheless your queries in that thread do not appear to have been addressed which to me leaves some doubt over the purchase of the 36-557 in it's latest guise.  So when you talk about "if anything the new one is better"  that is reassuring but then when I look at the video from Everard Junction he shows that the new version will not stop with the Emergency stop button but just coasts to a halt with the normal deceleration settings.

[Ron Ron Ron]

......but then when I look at the video from Everard Junction he shows that the new version will not stop with the Emergency stop button but just coasts to a halt with the normal deceleration settings.

 

 

Chris, if that's the video I've just found....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EnWra5g24A

 

...then that was made back in 2014 and a bit out of date, with regards to the decoder he's talking about.

 

What he describes as the "new" decoder, is in fact the old Soundtraxx made 36-557 (green coloured), which has now been supplanted by the "new" ESU made 35-557. A completely different product.

 

 

n.b. The "old" decoder he's talking about is the old 36-554, which was the long discontinued ESU LokPilot Basic V1.0

The LokPilot Basic was replaced by the LokPilot Standard a few years ago, which is a much improved model with better motor control.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Ron Ron Ron

[chriswright03]

Thanks for that once more Ron.

 

Do you see my point though about the information is now out of date?  Even with my own experience of fitting decoders in my own and other peoples stock I am unable to rely on it as it is at least five years out of date.  What was good then may well not be now as it will have been replaced, updated or even surpassed by others.  So in respect of Zimo and Lenz that I have used in the past my knowledge is outdated.

 

When I started looking today for recommendations I found that the threads were all ancient and as such not reliable information.  What is the 'go to' decoder for reliable and smooth running without breaking the bank?  By the looks of it the ball park figure seems to be 20 quid for a decent make with cheaper options available for the Bachmann/Hornby/Hattons offerings.  I am quite happy to go with whichever is going to be fit and forget and if that is the more expensive option then so be it.  Bearing in mind I am still talking about non sound here because if we start talking about 60 quid plus for a decoder them I may as well go the full hog and have sound or wait until Horny bring out a TTS for the DMU versions.

[RFS]

I would have a read of this thread on the provenance of Lais DCC decoders - http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=13788&forum_id=10#p248603

[chriswright03]

Thanks and just read that.  Again not exactly current information though is it?  I see a number of retailers are selling them now so are we to take it that they are selling counterfeits or are they pirated designs now built by themselves?

[Butler Henderson]

Whatever make sure a decoder has a properly detailed manual specifying what each CV does. I have given up with a 6 Function DCC Concepts Zen 218 as the supplied manual is a load of waffle with little detail, the online documentation does not relate to it (Default CV values differ) and further online documentation that is said to be available is not and DCC Concepts have no idea when it will be. The new Dapol Imperium is I understand similarly poorly documented. Pays to keep to the long established DCC suppliers rather than those who waffle beyond substance portrays their products.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Butler Henderson

[brossard]

I've always tended to steer clear of decoders from the major RTR manufacturers.  To be fair, Bachmann decoders work well enough but the choice of adjustable CV has been limited.  I've had terrible experience with Hornby decoders, gained when a friend of mine had these installed at the retailer.  After testing, these more often than not got replaced.

 

I've used Hattons and DCC Concepts without trouble (I suspect these are the same).  Decoders from pretty much any of the DCC system manufacturers are probably fine.

 

ESU Loksound and Lenz Silver are excellent.

 

I'm currently using Zimo sound decoders and very happy with these.  I get mine from Digitrains.

 

John

Edited January 26, 2018 by brossard

[RFS]

Thanks and just read that.  Again not exactly current information though is it?  I see a number of retailers are selling them now so are we to take it that they are selling counterfeits or are they pirated designs now built by themselves?

 

I couldn't answer that directly, but the original design was allegedly derived from TCS firmware and may still be based on that.  Other cheap decoders may also have followed the same route. 

 

One of the advantages of the likes of Zimo and Lenz decoders is that they have short-circuit and overload protection, which many other makes do not have.  Before the depreciation of sterling vs. euro I was buying Lenz Standard+ from German box-shifters for around £12.50 each posted. This was cheaper than most other brands, but was a quality decoder that met all my needs. I have a few Zimo MX600R decoders now which are also excellent and well worth investing in. 

[chriswright03]

I feel a visit to Digitrains coming on.

[chriswright03]

Any thoughts on what to fit to the trailing car for the lights?  Function only decoder or just a cheap and cheerful decoder just for the lights?  I had in the past some old ones taken out of locos that would not run but they have long since gone when I threw my toys out with the hobby.

 

What are these 6 pin decoders like?

[John K]

Any thoughts on what to fit to the trailing car for the lights?  Function only decoder or just a cheap and cheerful decoder just for the lights?  I had in the past some old ones taken out of locos that would not run but they have long since gone when I threw my toys out with the hobby.

 

What are these 6 pin decoders like?

Have a look at TCS FL2 or FL4 function only decoders.

I guess a two function decoder (FL2) is all you need for lights on a trailer car, unless you want interior lighting too, in which case you need the FL4

Both are available from Digitrains.

John

[w124bob]

Any one care to elaborate on the "Zimo in financial difficulties" comment, is this in relation to the German NI(equivalent) late payment issue or something new? Another vote for Lenz,ordered mainly from a well German box shifter, always saved a few quid even when the £/€ was poor, and you got alittle packet of winegums too.

Edited January 27, 2018 by w124bob

[chriswright03]

Yes that is what I was referring to Bob.

[RFS]

Any one care to elaborate on the "Zimo in financial difficulties" comment, is this in relation to the German NI(equivalent) late payment issue or something new? Another vote for Lenz,ordered mainly from a well German box shifter, always saved a few quid even when the £/€ was poor, and you got alittle packet of winegums too.

 

See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128019-zimo-is-insolvent/

[Nigelcliffe]

See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128019-zimo-is-insolvent/

 

Or, a more up-to-date report, though some may argue biased as its from Zimo's website.  The most recent January report is only currently in German: 

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/newsitems/Pleitereport.pdf

 

A translation of the German report via Google translation tools:

 

Background: due to an accidental backlog and missed appointments at the Vienna Regional Health Insurance Fund was filed by the bank in November 2017 against the ZIMO ELEKTRONIK GmbH, although the outstanding amount was paid in the meantime. The management was completely surprised by the fact that the bankruptcy was opened; ZIMO ELEKTRONIK GmbH was never materially insolvent.

 

The current status (10 January 2018): ZIMO ELEKTRONIK GmbH has been continued under the supervision of an insolvency administrator since 9 November 2017, and operations are continuing in all areas in full. The year 2017 also generated double-digit growth, which corresponded exactly to the business development forecast at the middle of the year.

 

On January 9, 2018, a "day sentence" (= court date) took place in connection with the "restructuring plan" submitted shortly thereafter. Due to the good business development, the court decided to continue the company indefinitely. For February 7, 2018, the probably final "Sanierungsplantagsatzung" was scheduled. Since ZIMO offers a "100% quota" (ie all claims will, if justified, be fulfilled in full), the creditors 'representatives' approval can be expected, which should not stand in the way of a court order to lift the bankruptcy in February. Production and deliveries are still ensured.

 

My rusty German breaks Sanierungsplantagsatzung down to "Recovery Plan Day Statute", which I'd take as "legal judgement day on recovery plan"

 

 

 

The link RFS posted to the earlier RMWeb thread had a pair of useful post (Kylestome and Andy Hayter) about how the Austrian social/health care charges are collected from companies. 

 

 

Up to the reader to decide if this means "company about to disappear"  or  "admin cockup, nothing to worry about",   or  anything in between.    

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

 

 

[peterfgf]

I have searched the forum for up to date information as I am looking to buy decoders for a pair of DMU's that I have bought.  Sadly most of the information is ages old and as such probably no longer a true reflection of the current (no pun intended) situation.

 

My search so far in an effort to find out what to buy has revealed the following:-

 

Bachmann appear to have replaced their decoder with a new one but it has the same number and apparently is not as good. Plus I see on Youtube that the Emergency stop doesn't work unless that has since changed.

 

DCC Concepts decoders seem to have serious issues with stopping and starting again so unless that has changed not viable.

 

Zimo appear to be in trouble financially.

 

There are others mentioned but rather than bore everyone with them all I would just ask what is now considered to be a decent quality decoder (non sound).  I am looking at both 8 and 21 pin and also a function only decoder.

 

A name that has cropped up that I have not seen before is LaisDCC that Digitrains are advertising.  Other than that if I look at the usual sellers as in Rails, Hattons, Derails and so forth there seems to be very little choice other than those mentioned that it would appear are all known to have issues.

 

So without looking at threads that started in 2013 or not far off it is difficult to know what is the pick of the crop currently.  Any ideas would be much appreciated and no doubt by others as well in the weeks and months to come.

My pennyworth, for what its worth:

 

The most useful and best comparison of properties can be found on the Coastal DCC website at http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/decoderselector.php

 

Zimo are not in trouble.  I think it was a technical financial problem which has been resolved, which is good, because I think their decoders are good and the locos I have fitted with them respond very nicely.  I would say that they well worth considering.  Their information is comprehensive but sometimes you have to start thinking in German-English.

 

Bachmann are re-badged from other manufacturers.  They used to be ESU Lokpilots but these were a bit basic and I've lost track of what Bachmann are using now.  If you trawl through the DCC section on here you might that someone who has one could identify the latest ones.

 

DCC Concepts Zen decoders are small and come with a stay-alive, and are therefore good for small 0-4-0 tanks.  Some of their basic DCC information is very good but some is rather patchy when looking at tweaking CVs and functions (or lack thereof).

 

Lenz Standard V2 10231-02 are pretty good and not too expensive  The locos I've fitted with them respond very well.

 

Peterfgf