Classsix T Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Hi Gang, For my late '50s Anglia project, it'd be nice (if not absolutely essential) to have one or two of the above pootling about. There's a lovely picture in one of my library tomes of iirc a J39/17/19 with BZ and brake van in tow on the Hadleigh branch. There is mention of a kit for them online, but I'm neither enamoured of the price or confident that it is a) available to purchase and b) within my competence. So I was wondering if given the ready availability of inexpensive Bachmann Thompson BGs, is it possible to cut-n-shut the body to mount on scratch built six wheel chassis? Thoughts, advice or links to "done it mate" threads welcome. Were I prone to wishlisting, these vehicles would certainly be top of the hauled stock pile. C6T. Edit to clarify which Thompson BGs...sigh. Edited April 6, 2018 by Classsix T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Can only observe that I've built the MARC Models one and it was fine to do. The Comet one needs a few bits added IIRC and i haven't done that one. The much-missed Roger Chivers did start a plastic kit, but it never reached production. I'd have a few more of them myself if it had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 It does seem a shame that if neglected by the RTR companies for so long, neither of the two larger injection moulded plastic kit manufacturers have picked up on it. I can't believe it's to do with the six wheel chassis on train set curves either, there must be a ton of Palethorpes vans running around. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I can't think of a successful RTR 6 wheel van. The Palethorpes vans (both LMS and GWR as well as the Insulated Milk) from Hornby were pretty dire and shortened to boot. The Dapol Stove R was only marginally better with undersized wheels, extensive compromises under the solebars and a reputation for dodgy running. Perhaps the lack of success previously has put the manufacturers off. It's not rocket science though. I have a 7mm kit on order for the Thompson 6 wheeled brake. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilwell Park Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Hi I must confess that I made one years ago by cutting up the sides & roof of a Triang Thompson brake coach ( remember them?) and putting them onto a palethorpes chassis. I would be embarrassed to show a photo of it now. Roger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I can't think of a successful RTR 6 wheel van. The Palethorpes vans (both LMS and GWR as well as the Insulated Milk) from Hornby were pretty dire and shortened to boot. The Dapol Stove R was only marginally better with undersized wheels, extensive compromises under the solebars and a reputation for dodgy running. Perhaps the lack of success previously has put the manufacturers off. It's not rocket science though. I have a 7mm kit on order for the Thompson 6 wheeled brake. John I'll do my old geezer thing now. Best running van, the Hornby Dublo Stove. Mine still does good work in Manchester Oldham Rd. Incidently, if you make the underframe rigid, the running of the Dapol example is vastly improved. Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 HI Chris, I was thinking about looks, esp. beneath the solebars, for the Palethorpes etc. I am pretty fussy about that. I made underframes from scratch for three Hornby 6 wheelers. I gave up on the Stove and built the Comet kit. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted April 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2018 Hi Gang, For my late '50s Anglia project, it'd be nice (if not absolutely essential) to have one or two of the above pootling about. There's a lovely picture in one of my library tomes of iirc a J39/17/19 with BZ and brake van in tow on the Hadleigh branch. There is mention of a kit for them online, but I'm neither enamoured of the price or confident that it is a) available to purchase and b) within my competence. So I was wondering if given the ready availability of inexpensive Bachmann Thompson BGs, is it possible to cut-n-shut the body to mount on scratch built six wheel chassis? Thoughts, advice or links to "done it mate" threads welcome. Were I prone to wishlisting, these vehicles would certainly be top of the hauled stock pile. C6T. Edit to clarify which Thompson BGs...sigh. Comet kit, definitely. For the chassis, build it with outside bearings on one outer axle, and the centre and other end axle in an inside-framed bogie that can pivot in all three dimensions - it'll run like a Rolls Royce. A little ingenuity is needed for the springs - which are inside the axleguards - but a suitable spring and axlebox should be procurable, and then separated into two components. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2018 I also looked at the kit for these from Marc models, but at £60 is more than I can justify. The parts to make it are not as far as I can tell available from Comet at present, so I got the etched sides/ends for the Gresley Dia 120 4-wheel instead. I will scratchbuild the rest of it. As simple drawings of both the Gresley 4-wheel and Thompson 6-wheel BZ are in the two volumes of :- Rolling stock worth modelling - D Bradford Barton ISBN 0 85153 453 8/ 454 6 (V1/V2) I have, I will probably have a go at scratching the 6 wheeler at some stage. The one fixed axle +inside bogie certainly is to my mind the easiest way of getting a 6 wheeler to run okay. I have a feeling someone used to make a design - Slaters perhaps? - with one full bogie and one 'half' bogie, both pivoting about their centres and linked together. I'm sure I remember making one once which ran quite okay too. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted April 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2018 Probably more than you ever wanted to know about 6-wheel underframes (including some of brossard's work) on this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52620-6-wheel-coaches/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) Probably more than you ever wanted to know about 6-wheel underframes (including some of brossard's work) on this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52620-6-wheel-coaches/ Thanks Simon. The most relevant post for my 6 wheeled underframes is #76. I used a method from Bill Bedford and it is very simple. I have tried Cleminson chassis which do work but interfered with my desire to detail the brake gear and other gubbins. John Edited April 7, 2018 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Lewis Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Dave Bradwell has been threatening a kit for a while, but not sure how far he's got with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Is there any drawing for this avalible? Looks like a possible cut and shut from a Thompson full brake. Also, how many 6 wheel vehicles had the spring inside the w irons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2018 Is there any drawing for this avalible? Looks like a possible cut and shut from a Thompson full brake. Isinglass drawing no. 614 http://www.isinglass-models.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I also looked at the kit for these from Marc models, but at £60 is more than I can justify. The parts to make it are not as far as I can tell available from Comet at present, so I got the etched sides/ends for the Gresley Dia 120 4-wheel instead. I will scratchbuild the rest of it. As simple drawings of both the Gresley 4-wheel and Thompson 6-wheel BZ are in the two volumes of :- Rolling stock worth modelling - D Bradford Barton ISBN 0 85153 453 8/ 454 6 (V1/V2) I have, I will probably have a go at scratching the 6 wheeler at some stage. The one fixed axle +inside bogie certainly is to my mind the easiest way of getting a 6 wheeler to run okay. I have a feeling someone used to make a design - Slaters perhaps? - with one full bogie and one 'half' bogie, both pivoting about their centres and linked together. I'm sure I remember making one once which ran quite okay too. Izzy The sides are available from Comet (Wizard). It just seems that he isn't selling them as complete kits. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/lner-thompson-d358-31ft10in-luggage-van-sidesends-6-wheeler-e7s/ Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbowilts Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Hi Gang, For my late '50s Anglia project, it'd be nice (if not absolutely essential) to have one or two of the above pootling about. There's a lovely picture in one of my library tomes of iirc a J39/17/19 with BZ and brake van in tow on the Hadleigh branch. There is mention of a kit for them online, but I'm neither enamoured of the price or confident that it is a) available to purchase and b) within my competence. So I was wondering if given the ready availability of inexpensive Bachmann Thompson BGs, is it possible to cut-n-shut the body to mount on scratch built six wheel chassis? Thoughts, advice or links to "done it mate" threads welcome. Were I prone to wishlisting, these vehicles would certainly be top of the hauled stock pile. C6T. Edit to clarify which Thompson BGs...sigh. I have sent you a PM about this subject, have you received it? Tim T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cctransuk Posted April 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) The sides are available from Comet (Wizard). It just seems that he isn't selling them as complete kits. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/lner-thompson-d358-31ft10in-luggage-van-sidesends-6-wheeler-e7s/ Jason I don't think that the BZ was ever available from Comet as a complete kit - probably because of the problem associated with the inside springs. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited April 8, 2018 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 That makes sense if they couldn't supply all the relevant parts. I'll see how I get on with the couple of Stove Rs that I've got before picking one up. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 I was quite happy with how my Comet Stove R came out Jason. The brake gear sketch in the instructions is a total fiction though. I used a reproduction works drawing found in LMS Journal #31. See the link and post referenced in post #11. Full details on my build here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87302-building-an-lms-stove-r-that-works/ The Comet build starts at post #31. Brass can be a much easier material to work with than plastic. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Yes I was following that thread. One Stove R isn't Comet, it's an aluminium kit from Westdale (I think). But it was going to get a Comet chassis. I've also got the 42 foot GUV and Inspection Saloon in the pile. All bought cheap as people don't seem to want them. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 If they're etched brass kits, yes, it seems that these days, a lot of people can't be bothered. On the other hand, the Bachmann inspection saloon is pretty good. I've had a number of kits in the pipe only to have the manufacturers beat me to the finish line. As you get older time becomes more and more precious so I don't see much point labouring away at a kit when the same thing is available as RTR, provided it's good of course. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Kings cross model shop did a 4mm drawing. There is a popular 7mm kit so details should be available. Very nice vans! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brerbz Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Kings cross model shop did a 4mm drawing. There is a popular 7mm kit so details should be available. Very nice vans! http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brerbz Paul This jogs my memory - Kings Cross did one of their wooden body kits for the Thompson BZ. I used to have one too many years ago than I care to remember. I never finished it (I changed scales) and I can't recall anything regarding the running gear. Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 If they're etched brass kits, yes, it seems that these days, a lot of people can't be bothered. On the other hand, the Bachmann inspection saloon is pretty good. I've had a number of kits in the pipe only to have the manufacturers beat me to the finish line. As you get older time becomes more and more precious so I don't see much point labouring away at a kit when the same thing is available as RTR, provided it's good of course. John Both aluminium. They are pretty basic to be honest. But worth the £5 or so I paid for each of them. https://picclick.co.uk/Westdale-kit-for-LMS-inspection-saloon-232686609849.html But I've seen them built by professionals and they can scrub up pretty well. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WESTDALE-GODDARD-KIT-BUILT-LMS-50-INSPECTION-SALOON-COACH-45028-circa-1942-na-/371220324324 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Well, at that price... How do you put them together? Solders out so they must require glue. I really hate epoxy. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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