RMWeb Gamer's Lounge.

[Classsix T]

7 hours ago, Reorte said:

Still slogging through Red Dead Redemption 2, and yes, it's become a slog. Not because of the pacing or controls or animations or anything like that but because I've reached the point where it's turning ever more depressing, and I've seen enough spoilers (not having actually expected to play the game I'd read plot summaries anyway) to know that's just going to get worse.

Cruelly snippidy snip butchery to your post there friend - apologies but having re-read it I wonder if the issue here (without disregard to your other points, natch) is that you've already got a fair idea of what is going to happen and that it possibly feels like you're just going through the motions? 

 

I mentioned earlier in the Lounge that my personal favourite games are those where having formed an emotional connection to the in game protagonist (through carefully scripted gameplay) I sometimes literally can't put the controller down because I need to know what happens next, as some sort of duty of care to my onscreen persona. I also deliberately stay away from Web content that could even hint at an outcome lest it spoil my enjoyment, easier said than done sometimes but then I'm not an Internet addict either so equally I'm blissfully ignorant of what I might be asked to do as Geralt, Snake, Lara or the Assassins Creed dude for example.

 

Akin to RDR2, I don't know if you've seen the film Reservoir Dogs, it's not a jolly Ealing caper by any stretch of the imagination, horrifically dark in fact, but Tarantino's writing is skilful in shepherding the viewer into forming an opinion on the characters so by the end you feel empathy with Mr. White and why he feels the need to end the film the way it does. 

Arthur is Mr. White, Micah is Mr. Blonde and Dutch is Joe. Familiar tropes done different, oh yes. Part of the reason I get so frustrated at lazy Hollywood remakes, Independance Day is sodding War of the Worlds, done bad! Fact! 

 

C6T, going for a lie down... 

[Steadfast]

Nail firmly on head there bud. Red dead 2 is directed, acted and has all the camera angles that it feels like a Hollywood classic, but with added dimension because you're interacting with it, and I think that's a big part, for me at least, for why I felt such a tie to Arthur and Glue Stick II, along with a hatred for certain other characters!

Anyone who played the first RDR will have formed some preconceptions towards some characters. I completed it for a second time just before playing RDR 2, and I think it coloured my views of the characters that carry over

 

Jo

 

 

[Classsix T]

Thanks Jo. I often hope my passion and dissection of the arts comes across but as it's a subjective topic, I never know if what I say hits the target. 

To tell you the truth I absolutely detest from a filmic point of view many "Westerns" and by those I mean the churned out garbage of 1950s Hollywood. The Spaghetti Westerns peaked my interest, but of course their plots (and The Magnificent Seven) were famously borrowed from Akira Kurosowa's far superior imo samurai movies, which in themselves had used themes from John Ford Westerns!

Perhaps it's this familiarity with various methods of story telling that allows me to detach from the deeply uncomfortable parts of games and films. 

 

At the end of the day, literally any book, movie, game or piece of music etc. will deal with the "deadly" sins somewhere along the line.

 

C6T. 

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, Classsix T said:

Cruelly snippidy snip butchery to your post there friend - apologies but having re-read it I wonder if the issue here (without disregard to your other points, natch) is that you've already got a fair idea of what is going to happen and that it possibly feels like you're just going through the motions?

 

That definitely plays into it. Now I knew that from the start but it comes across more as it's more and more going wrong. Still, just had an entertaining (as in utterly daft, but hey, lightens the mood) side mission.

 

Quote

I mentioned earlier in the Lounge that my personal favourite games are those where having formed an emotional connection to the in game protagonist (through carefully scripted gameplay) I sometimes literally can't put the controller down because I need to know what happens next, as some sort of duty of care to my onscreen persona. I also deliberately stay away from Web content that could even hint at an outcome lest it spoil my enjoyment, easier said than done sometimes but then I'm not an Internet addict either so equally I'm blissfully ignorant of what I might be asked to do as Geralt, Snake, Lara or the Assassins Creed dude for example.

 

Same here. I normally try to go in spoiler-free, but since it was looking at one point like it wasn't going to be coming to PC I read a bit about it anyway.

Quote

 

Akin to RDR2, I don't know if you've seen the film Reservoir Dogs, it's not a jolly Ealing caper by any stretch of the imagination, horrifically dark in fact, but Tarantino's writing is skilful in shepherding the viewer into forming an opinion on the characters so by the end you feel empathy with Mr. White and why he feels the need to end the film the way it does. 

Arthur is Mr. White, Micah is Mr. Blonde and Dutch is Joe. Familiar tropes done different, oh yes. Part of the reason I get so frustrated at lazy Hollywood remakes, Independance Day is sodding War of the Worlds, done bad! Fact! 

 

 

Not actually seen it, none of Tarantino's films have ever held much appeal, so I'm afraid I can't follow the comparisons.

 

Don't get me wrong at all, the writing and acting in RDR2 is very good, you've got a good bunch of varied and convincing characters there, most of them definitely more than just meets the eye. Definitely a very good game, just perhaps not quite my ideal type. Technically it's the best I've played, by a considerable margin. The more a game convinces me that every NPC is getting on with their lives (including the non-human ones), rather than just milling around waiting for the player to show up and act as scenery or target the better. One reason I liked Skyrim because it did that. RDR2 does it a lot better, I've never seen a game world that makes the player feel as much an incidental part of it. Quite a downside for me for The Witcher 3 is that it didn't do that convincingly.

 

One thing this is all bringing up is that it's re-emphasising games as a genuine storytelling medium, and it's an exciting one because it's still in its fairly early days. This period (say from perhaps 15 years ago onwards) may be looked back at as something of a golden age, like early Hollywood was, once it got established. No doubt there'll be ones almost indistinguishable from reality in the future, but will that also seem mundane by the time?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Reorte

[Reorte]

Come to think of it it all probably sounds like I'm playing up the issue rather more than is actually the case. It would be a couple of marks off the score if I was reviewing it, rather than saying it's a complete killer. A mistake in the design but not a fatal one.

 

[MJI]

15 hours ago, Classsix T said:

Thanks Jo. I often hope my passion and dissection of the arts comes across but as it's a subjective topic, I never know if what I say hits the target. 

To tell you the truth I absolutely detest from a filmic point of view many "Westerns" and by those I mean the churned out garbage of 1950s Hollywood. The Spaghetti Westerns peaked my interest, but of course their plots (and The Magnificent Seven) were famously borrowed from Akira Kurosowa's far superior imo samurai movies, which in themselves had used themes from John Ford Westerns!

Perhaps it's this familiarity with various methods of story telling that allows me to detach from the deeply uncomfortable parts of games and films. 

 

At the end of the day, literally any book, movie, game or piece of music etc. will deal with the "deadly" sins somewhere along the line.

 

C6T. 

 

I like Westerns but only when a certain actor is in it.

 

Favourite is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

I like Westerns but only when a certain actor is in it.

 

Favourite is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

Never been able to decide between The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and For A Few Dollars More (and I got rather confused the first time with TGTBATU with Lee Van Cleef playing a completely different and much more unpleasant character).

[Classsix T]

26 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Never been able to decide between The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and For A Few Dollars More (and I got rather confused the first time with TGTBATU with Lee Van Cleef playing a completely different and much more unpleasant character).

You might like to have a look at Destry starring Audie Murphy, quite an intelligent western for it's time (1954) and though I'd rarely give its star a second look he is rather good in it. 

I picked up Shane and Once Upon A Time In The West on my last visit to the charity shop, the latter another Sergio Leone masterpiece and worth it if only for the delicious Claudia Cardinale! 

 

C6T. 

[Steadfast]

I like Westerns too, especially maroon ones with a plate ending in Champion on the side...

....sorry, hat and coat, out the door!

 

Jo

[scottystitch]

31 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Once Upon A Time In The West............ another Sergio Leone masterpiece and worth it if only for the delicious Claudia Cardinale! 

 

C6T. 

 

 

 

Stranger faces off across the tracks from three heavies. 

 

Stranger: You Frank ?

 

Heavy 1: Frank Sent us

 

Stranger: You bring a horse for me?

 

Heavy 2: Looks like........looks like we're shy one horse! 

 

Heavies laugh

 

Stranger : (Shakes head) You brought two too many

 

Gunfight ensues........ 

[Classsix T]

Once Upon A Time In RDR2... 

 

Stranger: You Frank? 

 

Heavy 1: No, I'm Gavin. 

 

Stranger: There's an English pillock looking for you. 

 

B-dum tish! C6T. 

[Classsix T]

3 hours ago, Steadfast said:

I like Westerns too, especially maroon ones with a plate ending in Champion on the side...

....sorry, hat and coat, out the door!

 

Jo

Hauling the 10:15 to Yuma perhaps..? 

 

If you get both the references in that comment, you gain a gold star, housepoint and my eternal admiration. C6T. 

[scottystitch]

8 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Hauling the 10:15 to Yuma perhaps..? 

 

If you get both the references in that comment, you gain a gold star, housepoint and my eternal admiration. C6T. 

no I only get the obvious one.........

[Classsix T]

15 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

no I only get the obvious one.........

The obvious western reference, or the obvious Western reference..?

Bwa ha ha! 

 

(Strokes white cat whilst muttering something about pawns on a chessboard) C6T. 

[scottystitch]

Just now, Classsix T said:

The obvious western reference, or the obvious Western reference..?

Bwa ha ha! 

 

(Strokes white cat whilst muttering something about pawns on a chessboard) C6T. 

Just the Yuma one.

[Classsix T]

3 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Just the Yuma one.

Which was at 3:10...but Western Champion's number is...? 

 

Method in my madness Scott, though it's becoming apparent I frequently lean towards the latter rather than the former...sigh.

 

C6T. 

[scottystitch]

On 26/11/2019 at 11:01, Reorte said:

 

I was enjoying it until Chapter 4. Maybe part of the problem is that I haven't liked most of the story missions from the start - can't get much fun out of robbing people anyway, just not in my nature. But now there's a sense of doom and gloom hanging over everything and the more lightweight bits feel out of place and the enthusiasm for exploring and sightseeing has dried up.

 

I can sympathise with this view greatly. I will probably make a mess of this post and say something wrong so I'm not really going to say anything else on the above except to say, I get where you're coming from.

 

And sometimes real life is grim enough, without immersing ourselves in artificial grimness as well.

 

But as C6T says, RDR2 actually allows us to make this artificial world a better place. I've never "killed" a character that I didn't "need to", not intentionally anyway.  And I've not knowingly killed a civilian. Any vilain I catch that the game allows me to set free I do. When hunting I always try and make the kill as clean and stress free (for the animal) as possible. Some may view that as taking things too far. But it allows me to play the game without the dark side of it getting into my head.

 

I should also say that I've never robbed a random or a stagecoach, etc, that wasn't a mission.

 

I've actually just returned to RDR2 after an extended hiatus, and funnily enough just gotten into chapter 4. We've just moved camp to Shady Belle and the missions are taking place in and around St Denis. Got m'self a brand new set of fancy duds as well, and a new hairdo for Binky.

 

I do hope Arthur gets to eventually settle down with Molly..............

 

Best

Scott.

Edited November 27, 2019 by scottystitch

[scottystitch]

33 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

Which was at 3:10...but Western Champion's number is...? 

 

Method in my madness Scott, though it's becoming apparent I frequently lean towards the latter rather than the former...sigh.

 

C6T. 

Ah okay. I was thinking both were movie references. Well played, oh tracked one.

[Classsix T]

4 hours ago, scottystitch said:

 

 

 

Stranger faces off across the tracks from three heavies. 

 

Stranger: You Frank ?

 

Heavy 1: Frank Sent us

 

Stranger: You bring a horse for me?

 

Heavy 2: Looks like........looks like we're shy one horse! 

 

Heavies laugh

 

Stranger : (Shakes head) You brought two too many

 

Gunfight ensues........ 

The cut and editing after Charles Bronson delivers that last line onto the faces of the 'heavies' is literally a masterclass in on screen tension building. Not to mention the excruciatingly slow build up of three bored random dudes waiting at a station previous to that scene. Add in Morrcone's iconic soundtrack, pure gold.

 

C6T. 

[scottystitch]

6 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

The cut and editing after Charles Bronson delivers that last line onto the faces of the 'heavies' is literally a masterclass in on screen tension building. Not to mention the excruciatingly slow build up of three bored random dudes waiting at a station previous to that scene. Add in Morrcone's iconic soundtrack, pure gold.

 

C6T. 

I couldn't agree more. I have the blu ray version. As an opening scene, I'm struggling to think of anything better in all honesty.

 

The locomotive wheezing away as the heavies, twitchy, alert, anticipate the arrival of their quarry........

 

The rhythmic squeak of the water pump turbine both before and after the all too brief action......

 

If only Bronson had made an effort to actually suck/blow when "playing" the harmonica. But, hey, what's a masterpiece if it isn't at least slightly flawed.

 

I would dearly love to see it re-issued to cinema. Henry Fonda cast as the villain is a masterstroke, and you can tell he relishes the opportunity to get his teeth into the role, having hitherto being almost typecast as the hero. Arguably the performance of his career.

 

Glad I've found a fellow devotee.

Edited November 27, 2019 by scottystitch

[Classsix T]

13 hours ago, scottystitch said:

I couldn't agree more. I have the blu ray version. As an opening scene, I'm struggling to think of anything better in all honesty.

 

The locomotive wheezing away as the heavies, twitchy, alert, anticipate the arrival of their quarry........

 

The rhythmic squeak of the water pump turbine both before and after the all too brief action......

 

If only Bronson had made an effort to actually suck/blow when "playing" the harmonica. But, hey, what's a masterpiece if it isn't at least slightly flawed.

 

I would dearly love to see it re-issued to cinema. Henry Fonda cast as the villain is a masterstroke, and you can tell he relishes the opportunity to get his teeth into the role, having hitherto being almost typecast as the hero. Arguably the performance of his career.

 

Glad I've found a fellow devotee.

Absolutely. I adore well presented art Scott, but I won't align myself with a particular genre of any of the arts willy nilly. I'll watch, view, play or listen to any of it once, form a personal opinion and either walk away or embrace it fully. There's no such thing as bad art because it is literally a subjective topic.

Subsequently, there isn't a great deal of Opera, Stage Musicals or Ballet I've got time for!

But of course a phenomenally well executed masterpiece will stand the test of time and let's face it, Once Upon A Time In The West is up there for many reasons. 

 

My personal favourite Fonda performance though is in Fail Safe, if you've not seen it do. It's a corker.

 

C6T. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Classsix T
Clarification

[Classsix T]

12 hours ago, scottystitch said:

sometimes real life is grim enough, without immersing ourselves in artificial grimness as well.

 

Scott.

I to some degree can see why Scott and Reorte might think this way, however I am of the belief gaming is a pressure release valve from real life and further, you've a choice in gaming that life does not offer. I often get consternated watching the TV news but games are fiction right? 

I absolutely know real life can be pretty crummy, so why not occasionally immerse yourself in virtual escapism with no culpability beyond the trophies or whatever? 

 

It shouldn't ever go beyond that however and the young especially need to be made aware that real life still goes on and has to be dealt with. Games can be a nice timeout but should never become a replacement, that way lies addiction.

C6T. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Classsix T
Clarification of point of view

[beast66606]

One of my all time favourite games was Skool Daze on the Spectrum - you could give the characters new names which meant there was great pleasure in punching "Swot" (or Newnes in my version, the school swot in real life) - however I never felt the need to really punch him as he was a nice lad. Games give me a medium to expel some of lifes frustrations on pretend characters. I've been playing them since "pong", my university had Space Invaders pretty soon after it came out, a group of us discovered the secrets for getting 300 from the space ship, simple game play but fun, and if someone got a higher score than you, simply turn the machine off and on to reset !

[Classsix T]

 

19 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

One of my all time favourite games was Skool Daze on the Spectrum - you could give the characters new names which meant there was great pleasure in punching "Swot" (or Newnes in my version, the school swot in real life) - however I never felt the need to really punch him as he was a nice lad. Games give me a medium to expel some of lifes frustrations on pretend characters. I've been playing them since "pong", my university had Space Invaders pretty soon after it came out, a group of us discovered the secrets for getting 300 from the space ship, simple game play but fun, and if someone got a higher score than you, simply turn the machine off and on to reset !

Of course you're absolutely correct Skip. Additionally you've probably seen more media scare stories about video games than I've had hot dinners. 

 

C6T. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Classsix T

[beast66606]

PS - I love Ennio Morricones music, especially the Dollars Triology (and the films of course), don't like the use of The Ectasy of Gold on the Dolce and Gabbana advert though