ECML franchise to be broucht back under Public Ownership

[E3109]

I wonder if Rover will still be catered for, when he's feeling fur-sty (geddit? You're such a wag, aren't you Richard).

 

And remember guys, feel free to use the 240v socket but no toasters or hair dyers please!

 

 

I have good mates who work for VT and even the ones who’ve been lobotomised with Virgin "FUN" know it's all BS and cringe accordingly, in private at least.

 

Can't blame them for not wanting to bite the hand that feeds though.

And boy, does Virgin feed.

Off the taxpayers' titty.

[rodent279]

Saying something twice does not make it any more true.

 

The same as the rather classy GNER and Flying Scotsman strapline, it is a reflection on when the railways were glamourous and the pre-eminent from of travel.

 

Surely that is more appealing to the aesthetics than "Virgin East Coast" - I mean what's all that about? Where is the reference to it being a railway even?

Were they really more glamorous back then? Sure there were a few high class, luxury, fast trains that caught the public eye, but overall it was not a better railway. I think it's about deceiving people into thinking they are going back into some sort of golden era.

 

Virgin East Coast may not have the same ring, but I don't think it's any worse than Virgin Atlantic. I can't see what's wrong with plain East Coast really. But hey, it's only a name.

[G-BOAF]

And the funny thing is that lner.co.uk is owned by A1ST!!!

 

I hope the LNER name is not damaged by its use on the modern railway. But it would be nice to see some sort of reuse of classic liveries. Teak wraps anyone? Or maybe a nice neutral silver with subtle LNER branding...

Edited May 16, 2018 by G-BOAF

[rodent279]

But can't we design our own, modern, classic liveries? Why do we need to recreate the past?

[sem34090]

I do like the suggestion of the inaugural service being operated by another expensive national asset (F***** S*******), on both a slightly ironic note and on an enthusiastic one.

 

But can't we design our own, modern, classic liveries? Why do we need to recreate the past?

Compare any of the big four coach liveries to the boring white-with-only-doors-changed liveries that seem to be common now...

 

I know which I prefer! And that's before we even get into pre-grouping stuff...

[LBRJ]

But can't we design our own, modern, classic liveries? Why do we need to recreate the past?

 

IMO the only really decent post privatisation livery was that of GNER - which harked backwards. Most of the rest look like a bus (which is hardly surprising).

[Dunsignalling]

But can't we design our own, modern, classic liveries? Why do we need to recreate the past?

Very good question, let me know when somebody does, or should I say, twenty years after somebody does........

 

John

[E3109]

Were they really more glamorous back then? Sure there were a few high class, luxury, fast trains that caught the public eye, but overall it was not a better railway. I think it's about deceiving people into thinking they are going back into some sort of golden era.

Virgin East Coast may not have the same ring, but I don't think it's any worse than Virgin Atlantic. I can't see what's wrong with plain East Coast really. But hey, it's only a name.

It's worth bearing in mind, that when that guy was privy to bids for the ex-BR part of Eurostar in the 1990s he always promoted it as Virgin Eurostar.

I'm probably more capitalist-minded than Branson in my personal politics but if I had my way, that skank would be absolutely forbidden from bidding for any TOC franchises ever again.

 

Get down the library and read the Tom Bower books about him.

Bower clearly despises the fella even more than I do but the fact remains, Beardie has a tendency to run to his lawyers at the drop of a hat.... The fact that he hasn't done so with the Bower books speaks volumes ie they're based on fact.

 

Quite frankly, Colonel Sanders or Ronald McDonald have more legitimacy than Beardie.

 

He makes Ray Krok look like a saint.

 

Who's more serpentine though, Branson, or the folk who think he can do no wrong.

[Edwardian]

Nobody has confirmed any sort of name yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if they go back to "East Coast"

 

Why pay a design consultancy millions if you already have all the artwork and designs

 

Pointless re-branding?

 

See NRM

 

Apropos of which - of the franchise is to be called LNER, the NRM might arrange some publicity runs to contribute to the Flying Scotsman fund. 

[G-BOAF]

But can't we design our own, modern, classic liveries? Why do we need to recreate the past?

Why can't we create our own, modern classic ToC names? Why do we need to recreate the past?

[Steamport Southport]

Pointless re-branding?

 

See NRM

 

Apropos of which - of the franchise is to be called LNER, the NRM might arrange some publicity runs to contribute to the Flying Scotsman fund. 

 

 

Ah. But Flying Scotsman has British Railways on the side.

 

 

I don't think that would go down too well to be honest.   

 

 

 

Jason

[G-BOAF]

Pointless re-branding?

 

See NRM

 

Apropos of which - of the franchise is to be called LNER, the NRM might arrange some publicity runs to contribute to the Flying Scotsman fund. 

Does this mean we'll get the A3 back in LNER livery (with blinkers???) My A3 boilered, Apple Green, Double Chimney Scotsman is waiting to be prototypical... Fingers crossed for the next repaint...

[melmerby]

Virgin did not run the East Coast service, Stagecoach did. Virgin's 5% was no more than a token amount so the name could be used.

Check out the Beardy one's "companies". Most have little actual Virgin money tied up in them.

 

e.g. RB's holding in Virgin Media is only as a minority partner , the company is owned by Liberty Media and registered in Delaware

West Coast Trains however is a nearly equal partnership (51% Virgin Group, 49% Stagecoach Group)

 

Keith

Edited May 16, 2018 by melmerby

[Steamport Southport]

Why can't we create our own, modern classic ToC names? Why do we need to recreate the past?

 

Because....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Dunsignalling]

Does this mean we'll get the A3 back in LNER livery (with blinkers???) My A3 boilered, Apple Green, Double Chimney Scotsman is waiting to be prototypical... Fingers crossed for the next repaint...

I sincerely hope not, horrible cheap-looking funfair colour. Mind you, that funereal shade that GWR are using is even worse.

 

John

[rodent279]

How about Scotrail as a modern classic? Freightliner? Chiltern? SWT wasn't bad either, bit toothpaste like, but you could say that about NSE livery. All good, decent names too.

It can be done, without harking back to a romantic, chocolate box vision of past times.

[rodent279]

IMO the only really decent post privatisation livery was that of GNER - which harked backwards. Most of the rest look like a bus (which is hardly surprising).

I agree with you on GNER livery, that was good. Looked best on HST's though, I thought it wasn't quite right on 91's.

[Reorte]

How about Scotrail as a modern classic? Freightliner? Chiltern? SWT wasn't bad either, bit toothpaste like, but you could say that about NSE livery. All good, decent names too.

It can be done, without harking back to a romantic, chocolate box vision of past times.

I like the names but I'm not particularly keen on any of those liveries (although there have been plenty worse). Mind you some of the Victorian liveries were excessively garish AFAICT, they're just hidden under black and white photos.

 

Why not look to the past and keep those bits that worked, or even if they didn't work in reality why not try to get that vision a reality if it's something people like (and what people like is pretty important when it comes to the names and branding stake)?

[Talltim]

But why do we continue to "own" network fail, who are absolutely useless and their failing in part have led to all of this. In a normal contract Network Fail would have lost billions in liquidated damages across all of the franchises. But, as it is state owned we just pay for their inability to deliver the rail infrastructure...

 

Baz

I''m not going to disagree, but the privatised version was even worse...

[Robin2]

I find it interesting (and depressing) that most of the Posts on this subject are about the appearance rather than the substance.

 

And it is even more depressing to think that political ideology (Reply #18) is so set in stone that change is impossible in the face of evidence that it is needed. On the other hand maybe it will encourage more people to vote for a change of Government.

 

...R

[mdvle]

Not if it keeps resulting in this sort of situation, so the question is whether or not it was reasonably foreseable enough. Too high a bid should raise questions about whether or not it's supportable and not just result in automatic awarding.

 

Once you start down that road though the DafT would just be creating opportunities for losing bidders to challenge the decision in the courts, which we have already seen.

 

It is also worth considering that whether you agree with the franchise system or not few of the franchises run into this sort of trouble.

[009 micro modeller]

Slightly ironic that while renationalising East Coast they decide to use the name of the company that was running the line immediately prior to nationalisation in 1948...

 

Apart from GNER I quite liked the Anglia turquoise livery - the problem was that they had so many types of stock that it didn't suit all of them.

[Coryton]

But VTEC outperformed East Coast in terms of the amount of revenue they raised for the taxpayers.

They just couldn't meet the increasingly large and unacheivable payments required by the contract they overbid for and that the DafT were happy for them to sign up to.

 

I've only used them once and it was fine, but I have read in various places that the quality of service has fallen somewhat since they took over,

 

Hate to say this, but in fairness to the DafT it is not their responsibility to protect the private sector from submitting impossible bids.

 

If a bid is submitted and meets all the requirements set out in the terms then it should be the case that the bid that returns the greatest amount to the government is the one awarded the franchise.

 

There must be some mechanism for rejecting a completely unrealistic bid (surely?) - the question is where you draw the line.

 

Maybe it might work better if franchises were awarded to the second-highest bids, so long as they're not wildly less than the highest.

 

That would make setting a price for the bid a very interesting activity.

 

See DaFT had already spent our money on a new logo....

 

And the last time "we" ran East coast "we" made money by cutting maintenance to the bone and ran a carp service, on which, the staff were not a happy crew.

 

I think the staff currently are a very unhappy crew on the whole. (Or not...I believe one of the complaints was that crews who were used to working together had been split up). 

 

I find it interesting (and depressing) that most of the Posts on this subject are about the appearance rather than the substance.

 

And it is even more depressing to think that political ideology (Reply #18) is so set in stone that change is impossible in the face of evidence that it is needed. On the other hand maybe it will encourage more people to vote for a change of Government....

 

I haven't read the press release, but could it be because so far the only real detail we have is a name and logo?

 

As for change of government, I have seen nothing to indicate that most likely alternative government has anybody in a position of power who understands how the railways currently work, let alone how to improve things.

 

Still. this probably means we will be spared the sight of Azmuas a-zooming along.

 

Personally I liked the GNER name - sounded like a traditional railway company without pretending to be something it wasn't or causing confusion as to which time period is being referred to.

 

I'm looking forward to teak-effect 800s though.

['CHARD]

 

There must be some mechanism for rejecting a completely unrealistic bid (surely?) - the question is where you draw the line.

 

There already is; Risk Adjustment.  All bids are reviewed, and if their deliverability falls short of the scorecard's requirements, then it is down-rated, so in certain cases it is the otherwise runner-up bid that is considered the all round most deliverable and most economically advantageous, and goes on to win.

 

 

That would make setting a price for the bid a very interesting activity.

 

It already is, for the reason I give above!

 

 

[admiles]

It's worth bearing in mind, that when that guy was privy to bids for the ex-BR part of Eurostar in the 1990s he always promoted it as Virgin Eurostar.

I'm probably more capitalist-minded than Branson in my personal politics but if I had my way, that skank would be absolutely forbidden from bidding for any TOC franchises ever again.

 

Get down the library and read the Tom Bower books about him.

Bower clearly despises the fella even more than I do but the fact remains, Beardie has a tendency to run to his lawyers at the drop of a hat.... The fact that he hasn't done so with the Bower books speaks volumes ie they're based on fact.

 

Quite frankly, Colonel Sanders or Ronald McDonald have more legitimacy than Beardie.

 

He makes Ray Krok look like a saint.

 

Who's more serpentine though, Branson, or the folk who think he can do no wrong.

 

You're coming across as a wee bit bitter and twisted there!