Suzie Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Would an 86 or 87 not do a good job on an electrified railway? If the wires were down nothing is moving anyway so a diesel is not really at an advantage. Might be a few 91s spare now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NaN Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2020 Or a DRS class 88...best of both worlds! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) It probably needs to be diesel, since the trains can need rescuing from non electrified lines. An 88 may well have enough beans to do the job on diesel, but there's also only 10 of them and no doubt DRS have stuff they'd want to use them for other than sitting around at Colchester waiting for something to break. Not to mention that the specific 37 has dellners so it's simple to couple it to the units. (On the other hand, an 88 wouldn't need to run the engine constantly) Edited February 5, 2020 by Zomboid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Zomboid said: It probably needs to be diesel, since the trains can need rescuing from non electrified lines. An 88 may well have enough beans to do the job on diesel, but there's also only 10 of them and no doubt DRS have stuff they'd want to use them for other than sitting around at Colchester waiting for something to break. Not to mention that the specific 37 has dellners so it's simple to couple it to the units. (On the other hand, an 88 wouldn't need to run the engine constantly) Except the Dellner didn't work last week when it was needed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 The adaptor delner is not permanently fitted anymore not sure why. It was on the cab floor last time I was on one. On it this afternoon so will see where it is 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Zomboid said: It probably needs to be diesel, since the trains can need rescuing from non electrified lines. An 88 may well have enough beans to do the job on diesel, but there's also only 10 of them and no doubt DRS have stuff they'd want to use them for other than sitting around at Colchester waiting for something to break. Not to mention that the specific 37 has dellners so it's simple to couple it to the units. (On the other hand, an 88 wouldn't need to run the engine constantly) Absolutely; The hassle, and delay caused, when having to resource a loco, and Driver, with route knowledge, not just to the site of the stranded EMU but also, in Scotland, to Shields Depot to fit an adapter coupling, was a never-ending source of frustration. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 The delner isn't fitted to this loco there is a temporary one on the cab floor which needs a fitter to attach to the loco before it can couple to a unit 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Madness. You have a loco sitting idling (which I get...look at any early GM engine, and it only had water in it, so you have to idle or drain...), with a driver. But NO way to couple to the failed train until you get a fitter to put the coupler on, because the driver can't (I'm assuming union related) fit the coupler adaptor to the loco that is sitting waiting to rescue the failed train that has happened so often that you need a thunderbird on standby... Yep, this totally makes sense. Why not fit adaptors to both ends of the Thunderbird, so that it can just trundle out to the failed FLIRT & couple up ? Isn't that the point of having the DE standing by, at idle? That, or get a fitter to act as a 2nd on the Thunderbird- so there is one (a fitter...) to take with you at the drop of a hat? That way you've got a superfitter who can hopefully make the FLIRT run on it's own, and if not, at least can fit the adaptor for you to tow the useless waste of track space to somewhere to "fix" it again ? I'm sorry, the whole thing is a giant mess. MU's which are clearly not fit for purpose at this time, with inadequate testing. And don't think it's _just_ a UK problem, over here we have the Ottawa LRT that is showing the exact same sorts of problems. (and the recent problems in NYC with subway cars too...) Clearly, it has become acceptable to release to service things that are not workable... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 A Thunderbird loco can be required to assist trains other than those with Dellner couplers, eg freights, loco-hauled passengers (for the moment at least), therefore the adaptor will not always be required. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 It's not union related, its takes three men to lift it! 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 20 hours ago, phil-b259 said: ....Its the same with airports - Heathrow is trying to get Government grants to pay for adding high capacity shore supplies that enable aircraft engines to be shut down while parked (as opposed to idling) rather than fund the works all on their own. It’s not the aircraft’s engines, they are always shut down. It’s to reduce the use of the APU (auxiliary power unit), normally situated in the tail end of the fuselage. APUs are gas turbine generators that provide a ground power source, used to power electrical systems and aircraft systems such as the cabin air conditioning. They generate noise and burn jet fuel, resulting in noise and local air pollution. The alternative is usually a vehicle or trailer mounted generator. Same issues, fossil fuel usage, air and noise pollution. Shore supplies for electrical power and air conditioning are a positive move. As for diesels sitting for hours with engines ticking over, surely this practice has to be stopped or some other method devised to achieve the degree of readiness required? Ron 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said: As for diesels sitting for hours with engines ticking over, surely this practice has to be stopped or some other method devised to achieve the degree of readiness required? From an environmental point of view, I agree. But then I'd ban all steam engines from burning huge amounts of fossil fuel and creating pollution all so a bunch of old fellas wearing rose-tinted specs can relive their youth. Just sayin'... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chris116 Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pete 75C said: From an environmental point of view, I agree. But then I'd ban all steam engines from burning huge amounts of fossil fuel and creating pollution all so a bunch of old fellas wearing rose-tinted specs can relive their youth. Just sayin'... Careful, you could have a lot of unhappy people after you! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, Chris116 said: Careful, you could have a lot of unhappy people after you! Yeah, a cross between devil's advocate and a test of sense of humour, but sometimes the truth hurts. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2020 Yes, you can have the auto engine shut-down which seems to be fitted to many new buses. Carefully timed to let the engine run until a minute before it is due to leave, as far as I can see. Seriously though there must be a better way that keeping a Thunderbird engine continually ticking over in case it is needed. And there must be a better way of dealing with the couplings than something which needs three men to fit when needed. Trouble is I don't know what they are if I did I would be rich. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said: Yes, you can have the auto engine shut-down which seems to be fitted to many new buses. Carefully timed to let the engine run until a minute before it is due to leave, as far as I can see. Seriously though there must be a better way that keeping a Thunderbird engine continually ticking over in case it is needed. And there must be a better way of dealing with the couplings than something which needs three men to fit when needed. Trouble is I don't know what they are if I did I would be rich. Jonathan I would remove/isolate the auxiliary generator from the power unit and have auxiliaries run by a separate small diesel generator. That way you can run the cab heaters, lighting, keep the compressors running, and charge the starting batteries without the power unit running. Not only that, if you piped the cooling system of said generator to the power unit instead of having its own radiator, you would keep that warm too so it would start easily. And you would have at least another 150hp or so available for traction as the power unit is not having to provide power for auxiliaries when underway. On a 37 there may be space for it in the old boiler compartment. Just don't use the same engines as tried on the class 27 push pull locos! You could even use it for stop/start technology, as soon as throttle is closed, power unit stops. When throttle is opened, power unit automatically restarts. Bearing in mind how much time a loco spends idling compared to a car, it would probably make a significant difference to fuel consumption and emissions, despite the auxiliary gen set still running. Edited February 6, 2020 by Titan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2020 One of the units had a firmware update overnight and ran from Norwich to Ipswich then Ely then Ipswich then back without issue, even passing through the Kennett Triangle ! 3 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Titan said: I would remove/isolate the auxiliary generator from the power unit and have auxiliaries run by a separate small diesel generator. That way you can run the cab heaters, lighting, keep the compressors running, and charge the starting batteries without the power unit running. Not only that, if you piped the cooling system of said generator to the power unit instead of having its own radiator, you would keep that warm too so it would start easily. And you would have at least another 150hp or so available for traction as the power unit is not having to provide power for auxiliaries when underway. On a 37 there may be space for it in the old boiler compartment. Just don't use the same engines as tried on the class 27 push pull locos! You could even use it for stop/start technology, as soon as throttle is closed, power unit stops. When throttle is opened, power unit automatically restarts. Bearing in mind how much time a loco spends idling compared to a car, it would probably make a significant difference to fuel consumption and emissions, despite the auxiliary gen set still running. Good idea but wouldn't work I'm afraid, the boiler compartment became a clean air compartment on refurb and houses electronics and the rectifier nowadays The other thing with these suggestions who is going to pay for it. These locos are owned by a small company who hire them to another company who is contracted by stadler for testing and rescuing the new units 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 11 hours ago, russ p said: Good idea but wouldn't work I'm afraid, the boiler compartment became a clean air compartment on refurb and houses electronics and the rectifier nowadays The other thing with these suggestions who is going to pay for it. These locos are owned by a small company who hire them to another company who is contracted by stadler for testing and rescuing the new units Yeah, best suited for new build I suppose, and even then it would only happen if mandated on account of reduced emissions. I suspected that that empty space from the boiler on a 37 may have already been put to good use! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiles Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 12 hours ago, beast66606 said: One of the units had a firmware update overnight and ran from Norwich to Ipswich then Ely then Ipswich then back without issue, even passing through the Kennett Triangle ! Now all they need do is do that circuit another, say 20 times, and jobs a carrot! (maybe). In all seriousness I hope it's the fix that's required. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 20 hours ago, Pete 75C said: From an environmental point of view, I agree. But then I'd ban all steam engines from burning huge amounts of fossil fuel and creating pollution all so a bunch of old fellas wearing rose-tinted specs can relive their youth. Just sayin'... We could replace all the gubbins inside with an electric boiler and put big batteries in the tender. Then the only thing it would exhaust is steam. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2020 You could then put a coathanger on the roof so it could use the overheads to power the boiler...... Andy G 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlgoss Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Throughout all this coupling business, it's worth reminding that rope won't quite cut the mustard either. Think back to the Titfield Thunderbolt. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Somehow I think Stadlers units would come off worse up against a steam road roller (or petrol lawnmower frankly, but I have no evidence of that so couldn't possibly suggest it, Swiss legal firms please note). C6T. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2020 Russ got his wish today when he rescued a failed unit at Ipswich and took it to Norwich - photo later. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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