TSD's Workbench - SECR and Industrial modelling

[TurboSnail]

There's no need to use a Mashima anymore. The "N20" motors are the same dimensions as the 10/15 Mashima and are available as the motor only for a fraction of the Mashima's price. I bought five of the motor only N20s for around ten pounds and am currently scratchbuilding a Manning Wardle Class H that has one fitted to a High Level 60:1 Short Slimliner+ . My RT Models Manning Wardle Old Class I already has one fitted and it runs easier than the locos that are fitted with Mashimas.  Having so far built 4 locomotives with the N20 motor/gearbox and crown wheel drive I consider the High Level gearboxes to be superior for slow-speed control against the N20 and crown wheel drive but the latter cannot be beaten for power, as long as the model has enough weight to make use of that power.

 

Ah, so you've successfully used an N20 with a High Level gearbox? Would you be able to post a couple of pictures of it/direct me to a thread if it has one? That avenue is very interesting to me, I have a few other motors I'm considering fitting to proper gearboxes, but I assumed the N20 would be too small to work properly.

[Ruston]

Ah, so you've successfully used an N20 with a High Level gearbox? Would you be able to post a couple of pictures of it/direct me to a thread if it has one? That avenue is very interesting to me, I have a few other motors I'm considering fitting to proper gearboxes, but I assumed the N20 would be too small to work properly.

I can't promise any photos for a while. I am trying to get to grips with a new laptop and Windows 10 and I have no Photoshop or anything to resize photos at all at the moment. All existing photos are trapped in a now dead laptop.

 

Unlike the Mashimas, these cheap motors have only a 1mm shaft, so they must be sleeved with a length of suitable brass tube, which is easily available from Hobby Holidays, or Eileen's Emporium. The brass sleeve is held in place by the use of Loctite threadlock. The screw holes in the motors don't match the holes in the gearboxes, which are designed for Mashimas but the same thing applies to the larger Mitsumi motors that I have also used. I simply solder the motor on to the gearbox at one side. It's worked succesfully on 4 locomotives so far. If you have a lathe, and for foolproof accuracy in meshing the worm to the first gear, you can turn up a sleeve that fits in the hole in the gearbox mounting plate and goes over the boss of the motor but it's easy enough to set them up by eye. If you do get it wrong, simply touch the soldering iron to the joint and move or remove it - that's why you only solder it on one side. Soldering one side has proved to be strong enough but there's no reason why you couldn't also solder the other side once you're satisfied with the meshing.

 

I think I posted a photo of one of this type of set up and with the N20 motor in the detailing and modifying RTR section, under the "show us your pugbashes etc." thread. (edit - here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120431-show-us-your-pugbashes-nellieboshes-desmondifications-jintysteins/page-20&do=findComment&comment=3330361 )

Edited December 1, 2018 by Ruston

[TurboSnail]

So when I said the other day I'd bought an Electrotren, I actually meant I'd bought two (finally getting round to spending my birthday money). One to keep nice and original, the other one to subject to something a bit more drastic...

 

I'd noticed that the front wheelbase was almost identical to the wheelbase of the SECR Manning Wardle, so I decided to make an 0-4-0 out of one. Out with the hacksaw, and I had a good chassis, but with a large motor taking up the space where the cab should be on most locomotives. So the motor was also swapped for a smaller one, facing the opposite direction. So now I have a small, outside-cylinder 0-4-0 with a pretty good driveline, bit quicker than I'd like, but still good.

 

Now I have to think about bodies to make for this chassis too. Plenty of small 0-4-0s and 0-4-2s could be possible.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

So when I said the other day I'd bought an Electrotren, I actually meant I'd bought two (finally getting round to spending my birthday money). One to keep nice and original, the other one to subject to something a bit more drastic...

 

I'd noticed that the front wheelbase was almost identical to the wheelbase of the SECR Manning Wardle, so I decided to make an 0-4-0 out of one. Out with the hacksaw, and I had a good chassis, but with a large motor taking up the space where the cab should be on most locomotives. So the motor was also swapped for a smaller one, facing the opposite direction. So now I have a small, outside-cylinder 0-4-0 with a pretty good driveline, bit quicker than I'd like, but still good.

 

Now I have to think about bodies to make for this chassis too. Plenty of small 0-4-0s and 0-4-2s could be possible.

 

IMG_20181202_190125.jpg

 

IMG_20181202_190220.jpg

 

 

Brilliant idea.

[TurboSnail]

Modelling progress currently very slow, lots of other things on my mind to deal with first. However, I am slowly getting through preparing files to 3D print, so hopefully I'll be putting in an order fairly soon, including the SECR 313, two mystery locomotive bodies, an N gauge F1 and a new type of chassis to experiment with a 'proper' gearbox. 

 

The 3Dhubs website has removed the ability to choose your own printers, so I now have slightly less control over the quality, timescale and price - as an indication, the cost for a few of the above items has gone from £50 to £80 back to £60 in the last few days alone. So I guess I'll just sit on the order until it comes back down to something sensible.

 

I really need to buy my own printer at some point. If I ever have the money for it.

[TurboSnail]

I seem to have let this thread go silent for a bit, a combination of busyness and illness has made me lose my mojo a bit. Anyway, I've just got a new 3Dhubs order in, lots of nice new things to play with instead of finishing my existing projects... This delivery got a fair amount of damage from the DHL people, but nothing I can't fix with some superglue and filler.

 

I was thinking of maybe YouTube livestreaming the initial inspection, support removal and cleanup process for the SECR 313 and another loco I ordered, would that be something anyone is interested in watching? I'm not going to bother if I'm just going to be talking to myself as usual    It would also be a chance to ask me anything about my processes and any of the models I've made. Not sure when I'd run it yet, it would be an evening, but I've currently got the lurgy, so it'll have to wait until I recover somewhat.

[sem34090]

I seem to have let this thread go silent for a bit, a combination of busyness and illness has made me lose my mojo a bit. Anyway, I've just got a new 3Dhubs order in, lots of nice new things to play with instead of finishing my existing projects... This delivery got a fair amount of damage from the DHL people, but nothing I can't fix with some superglue and filler.

 

I was thinking of maybe YouTube livestreaming the initial inspection, support removal and cleanup process for the SECR 313 and another loco I ordered, would that be something anyone is interested in watching? I'm not going to bother if I'm just going to be talking to myself as usual    It would also be a chance to ask me anything about my processes and any of the models I've made. Not sure when I'd run it yet, it would be an evening, but I've currently got the lurgy, so it'll have to wait until I recover somewhat.

You know how much I like a good stream - Sounds like a great idea!

 

Just be prepared for the chat to go downhill rather quickly...

[Gibbo675]

I'm not going to bother if I'm just going to be talking to myself as usual 

I talk to myself because I'm the only one that I can get any sense out of !

[CarriageShed]

I talk to myself because I'm the only one that I can get any sense out of !

 

I started doing it because I wanted an intelligent conversation

 

(Immediately goes into hiding...)

[Caley Jim]

I started doing it because I wanted an intelligent conversation

 

(Immediately goes into hiding...)

I'm in my own little world, but it's OK, everybody knows me there!!

 

Jim

[Gibbo675]

Hi TS,

 

How about this for your Electrotren chassis ?

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=102&product_id=100001

 

Gibbo.

[TurboSnail]

Hi TS,

 

How about this for your Electrotren chassis ?

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=102&product_id=100001

 

Gibbo.

 

Well that's certainly an interesting looking thing! I do like that sort of small, but still heavy-industrial engine. I'll have to think about it - we might be scuppered slightly by the lack of side tanks. The Electrotren chassis has a very wide motor, as the locos it's designed for all have side tanks apart from one. I might be able to come up with something 'based on' though.

[Gibbo675]

Well that's certainly an interesting looking thing! I do like that sort of small, but still heavy-industrial engine. I'll have to think about it - we might be scuppered slightly by the lack of side tanks. The Electrotren chassis has a very wide motor, as the locos it's designed for all have side tanks apart from one. I might be able to come up with something 'based on' though.

Hi TS,

 

I've sent a PM with all sorts of other possibles and though fodder for the Electrotren chassis.

 

Gibbo.

[TurboSnail]

Much appreciated Gibbo, I'll have a look through those when I get a chance later on.

 

I went and measured the Electrotren motor, it would need a minimum width of 20mm to fit, so given the chunkiness of that NCB loco, it may not actually be that much of a stretch.

[TurboSnail]

It's nice to be back home for Christmas. Boxed up all my modelling stuff (how did I accumulate so much?) and got reunited with my layout, Broadmead Yard. It's fine if you like shunting, not so much for express passenger trains...

 

It's meant to be a small goods yard sometime between 1910 and 1935, based on a re-imagining of the Elham Valley line where Hawkinge was developed earlier than in reality, so the line came that way and joined the main line at Folkestone Junction instead. Given the terrain, this is a bit of a stretch, but this was never meant to be a super-accurate layout, just something to tide me over until I have the time and the budget to make a proper layout. Hence the complete lack of accuracy in the trackplan too... can't see anything wrong with points right next to a tunnel exit... The tunnel is the exit point on the far left of the layout, which is based about a mile up the line from the junction, where it goes into a steep tunnel to start the climb up to Hawkinge. (I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the justification of the chosen location, does it show? )

 

It mostly gets used as a test bench for locos now, I ran out of scatter and hanging basket liner, so the scenic bits just sort of stop. I'm not sure whether I'll finish it. But it works pretty well, the controls are good and it has the most simple control panel I've ever seen on a layout.

 

Here's the question: if I were to start over, how should I change the trackplan to make it more accurate? I'm thinking in terms of points and signals, and how the SER/SECR laid out their yards. Track planning and location research is probably one of my weaker skills.

 

[TurboSnail]

Neilson 2-2-2t update time!

 

I've packed it full of weight, and it still has very limited traction. Adding the additional weight of a 9v battery seems to make it run just about ok, but I'm not sure there's enough space left inside to fit that much more ballast. I'm seriously considering the evils of traction tyres... Or maybe some sort of paint-on alternative.

 

On the plus side, the pickups seem to be pretty good on all six wheels, so if I do have to resort to traction tyres then hopefully it should still get enough electricity.

 

[Killian keane]

Its an absolutely beautiful model I must say, 2-2-2s are notoriously difficult to balance, perhaps you could lower the middle set of wheels or alternatively raise the carrying wheels ever so slightly so as to increase the weight on the drivers?

[TurboSnail]

Its an absolutely beautiful model I must say, 2-2-2s are notoriously difficult to balance, perhaps you could lower the middle set of wheels or alternatively raise the carrying wheels ever so slightly so as to increase the weight on the drivers?

 

The leading/trailing wheels are very lightly sprung and the centre of gravity is only a couple of mm behind the drivers, so I hope most of the weight should be on the drivers.

 

I'm also considering magnets now!

[Gibbo675]

The leading/trailing wheels are very lightly sprung and the centre of gravity is only a couple of mm behind the drivers, so I hope most of the weight should be on the drivers.

 

I'm also considering magnets now!

Magnets ?????

 

How Triang is that !!!

 

If you do go full on Triang will you follow it up with milled wheels !

 

Gibbo.

[Killian keane]

Whatever track is made from nowadays it doesnt seem to be affected by magnets, the old super 4 track was steel I think

[Compound2632]

The leading/trailing wheels are very lightly sprung and the centre of gravity is only a couple of mm behind the drivers, so I hope most of the weight should be on the drivers.

 

That sounds like a recipe for a nodding donkey. if the driving axle must be rigid, would it not be better to fix either the rear or leading axle, with the other sprung? The centre of mass ought to be between the two rigid axles.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

Mr. Ruston of this parish built a small 2-2-2ST recently which performed well. During the course of the correspondence I lumbered him with some thoughts and illustrations of some of mine, which coincide with the method you’re thinking about now. Good luck with sorting it out.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128166-boultons-number-11/page-2

[TurboSnail]

Magnets ?????

 

How Triang is that !!!

 

If you do go full on Triang will you follow it up with milled wheels !

 

Gibbo.

 

Whatever track is made from nowadays it doesnt seem to be affected by magnets, the old super 4 track was steel I think

 

I discovered that in the course of my investigations. Oh well.

 

That sounds like a recipe for a nodding donkey. if the driving axle must be rigid, would it not be better to fix either the rear or leading axle, with the other sprung? The centre of mass ought to be between the two rigid axles.

 

Each axle only has about 0.5mm up and down movement, so it shouldn't be too bad. When I say sprung, I mean with foam, so it's not has a bit of damping in it too. The reason I went for both sprung is that I wanted both driving wheels on the track at all times - if there are 4 rigid wheels, there is the chance that over uneven track you could end up with one wheel drive. I don't have a whole lot of faith in my tracklaying.

[TurboSnail]

Mr. Ruston of this parish built a small 2-2-2ST recently which performed well. During the course of the correspondence I lumbered him with some thoughts and illustrations of some of mine, which coincide with the method you’re thinking about now. Good luck with sorting it out.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128166-boultons-number-11/page-2

 

Some lovely locos in that thread, I especially like Seaford. I fear that as you are using proper engineering materials (and a good motor) rather than 3D printed resin (and a cheap motor), you have a slight headstart on me when it comes to adding weight. I'll see what I can do though.

[Caley Jim]

Some lovely locos in that thread, I especially like Seaford. I fear that as you are using proper engineering materials (and a good motor) rather than 3D printed resin (and a cheap motor), you have a slight headstart on me when it comes to adding weight. I'll see what I can do though.

The issue is clearly not the motor, but a lack of adhesion.  this where 3D printed small locos will fall down, I fear.  Simply through resin being so much lighter than metal.

 

Jim