Last BR scheduled steam 3.8.1968 details

[robmcg]

Hi All,

 

We have a 50th anniversary of the 1968 1T57 '15 Guinea Special' coming up, but I am intrigued by occasional reference to the last actual scheduled normal steam service, given the amount of info about the 15 Guinea Special.

 

which I understand to have been on Sat 3 August 168 , 8 days before 1T57.

Black 5 45318 of  Lostock Hall shed,   2^nd section of  Glasgow/Edinburgh-Manchester/Liverpool service Preston-Liverpool Exchange.Driver, Ernie Hayes.

 

Can anyone provide more detail or photos of this train? I would like to model it in 00, and photograph it.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by robmcg

[Bomag]

The last scheduled normal steam hauled service by BR was in 1989.

 

If we are talking standard gauge then many of the last services which were steam hauled were relief services, do you want the last timetabled service train?

[robmcg]

The last scheduled normal steam hauled service by BR was in 1989.

 

If we are talking standard gauge then many of the last services which were steam hauled were relief services, do you want the last timetabled service train?

 

Ah, yes, I meant 'normal timetabled standard gauge'  thanks.  An afternoon Glasgow-Liverpool Exchange train, with Black 5 from Preston seems to be the last, 3/8/1968. I know there was an 8F seen on the 4th Sept and passenger specials on the 4th.

Edited July 1, 2018 by robmcg

[Gibbo675]

Hi All,

 

We have a 50th anniversary of the 1968 1T57 '15 Guinea Special' coming up, but I am intrigued by occasional reference to the last actual scheduled normal steam service, given the amount of info about the 15 Guinea Special.

 

which I understand to have been on Sat 3 August 168 , 8 days before 1T57.

Black 5 45318 of  Lostock Hall shed,   2^nd section of  Glasgow/Edinburgh-Manchester/Liverpool service Preston-Liverpool Exchange.Driver, Ernie Hayes.

 

Can anyone provide more detail or photos of this train? I would like to model it in 00, and photograph it.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

 

Hi There,

 

I think somewhere in the galleries on the site below here may be some photos but I may be wrong.

 

http://www.prestonstation.org.uk/photoarchive/index.php

 

There is a photo of the train in question on page 269 and a write up in a book called, "Steam on Merseyside... and beyond", by by David Bryant and John Bannon. Maximum speed of 78mph at Maghull.

 

 

Gibbo.

[robmcg]

Some excellent browsing there, thankyou.

 

I have cobbled-together a photo-edited version of Black 5 45318 using pics from Irwell's Book of Black 5 4-6-0s part 3   but of course it may well be too clean!

 

The painted number was right though, and it had been in store for over a year in 1967-early 1968.

 

 

78mph was a nice speed to go out on. 

[Trev52A]

Hi Rob

 

The train which 45318 hauled on 3rd August 1968 was the 21.25 out of Preston to Liverpool Exchange (part of a train which divided at Preston), so it will have made the journey in darkness. I suspect photographs may therefore be hard to find, certainly action shots! (I await to be shot down in flames by someone with a big flashgun!)

 

The penultimate regular steam-hauled passenger train left Preston that same night at 20.50 for Blackpool South behind 45212 (I was on it). Again, it was a portion of a train which divided at Preston. After finishing that working 45212 returned (LE?) to Preston where it was station pilot. One of its duties was to remove sleeping cars from an overnight express and shunt them into a bay platform. As the people in the train were fare paying-passengers (even though asleep and unaware!) 45212 has a strong claim to have worked the last normal passenger train(!) albeit a shunt move. There are published photos of the loco as station pilot at Preston on the Sunday (the 4th) while all the other steam workings as far as I can tell were the numerous 'specials' that day, so 45212 hold the honour (in my eyes, anyway) of being the 'last in normal service' steam loco, although that definition seems to be open to interpretation and I wouldn't want to argue with anyone who has a different view. It is now preserved, of course.

 

Much of this has been discussed in the '50 Years since the End of Steam' thread.

 

Hope this helps, although I suspect it might have muddied the waters a bit(!)

 

Cheers

Trevor

 

Edited to change Manchester Exchange(!) to read Liverpool Exchange

Edited July 2, 2018 by Trev52A

[robmcg]

Thankyou Trevor,

 

This is exactly what I wanted to learn, I don't know how I missed the relevant thread,   your post is much appreciated.

 

A pic of 45212 will no doubt arise soon!

[Trev52A]

As you may have spotted Rob, I have now altered Manchester in my previous post as the destination of 45318 to the correct one of Liverpool!!

Doh! (Well it is late here in the UK and watching all this World Cup malarkie makes one tired!)

 

Looking forward to seeing 45212 in due course!

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[robmcg]

As you may have spotted Rob, I have now altered Manchester in my previous post as the destination of 45318 to the correct one of Liverpool!!

Doh! (Well it is late here in the UK and watching all this World Cup malarkie makes one tired!)

 

Looking forward to seeing 45212 in due course!

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

Thanks Trevor, like you I wouldn't want to argue about the definition of 'normal BR service'. To me it means timetabled normal service but to others...  ?

 

It was a strange few years through to the end of everyday steam! 

 

Cheers and England will win the cup 5 nil to Brazil, easy!

Edited July 3, 2018 by robmcg

[Trev52A]

Hello again Rob

 

Regarding your forthcoming pic of 45212: you will no doubt find many views of this loco in 1968 condition online, but are you aware it ran with a distinctive metal strip on the tender bodywork near the front, on the driver's side? (It may have been the same on both sides, but my only shot of the RHS is indistinct on this account.)

I presume this was some sort of repair(?) but it is not clear (to me) how this thin strip could have helped much.

 

Here's a view which shows it:

 

45212 at Preston on 18th July 1968

 

It might be worthwhile for me to start a new thread to find out its purpose, if no-one takes it up after reading this.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

[Rail-Online]

Hello again Rob

 

Regarding your forthcoming pic of 45212: you will no doubt find many views of this loco in 1968 condition online, but are you aware it ran with a distinctive metal strip on the tender bodywork near the front, on the driver's side? (It may have been the same on both sides, but my only shot of the RHS is indistinct on this account.)

I presume this was some sort of repair(?) but it is not clear (to me) how this thin strip could have helped much.

 

Here's a view which shows it:

 

(564a) 45212 Preston 18-07-68 (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

45212 at Preston on 18th July 1968

 

It might be worthwhile for me to start a new thread to find out its purpose, if no-one takes it up after reading this.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

I am pretty sure that was not a strip or repair but an electrical conduit and associated clips - however I have no idea what for....

 

And it was both sides see http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p772381711/h4870bf0a#h4870bf0a

 

 

Cheers Tony

Edited July 5, 2018 by Rail-Online

['CHARD]

I am pretty sure that was not a strip or repair but an electrical conduit and associated clips - however I have no idea what for....

 

Tony

 

On board WiFi 

[Trev52A]

I am pretty sure that was not a strip or repair but an electrical conduit and associated clips - however I have no idea what for....

 

And it was both sides see http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p772381711/h4870bf0a#h4870bf0a

 

 

Cheers Tony

 

Hi Tony

 

That makes sense - well, more sense than a repair, anyway! I wonder why?

 

Looks like I'll have to start a thread on this one.

 

Cheers

Trevor

[Trev52A]

I've started a new thread specifically to ask the question, rather than hijack rob's, so we can continue this discussion over there.

 

Cheers

Trevor

[robmcg]

Hello again Rob

 

Regarding your forthcoming pic of 45212: you will no doubt find many views of this loco in 1968 condition online, but are you aware it ran with a distinctive metal strip on the tender bodywork near the front, on the driver's side? (It may have been the same on both sides, but my only shot of the RHS is indistinct on this account.)

I presume this was some sort of repair(?) but it is not clear (to me) how this thin strip could have helped much.

 

Here's a view which shows it:

 

(564a) 45212 Preston 18-07-68 (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

45212 at Preston on 18th July 1968

 

It might be worthwhile for me to start a new thread to find out its purpose, if no-one takes it up after reading this.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

Thanks for that pic, it also shows the degree to which lining is visible. 

 

Cheers.

[Trev52A]

Hi Rob

 

Regarding 45212 - I am almost certain it ran with a red smokebox numberplate at the end - see this b&w view of mine at Preston on 2nd August. I've searched online for a colour shot from then but so far no luck.

It also looks like the shed code was painted on.

 

 

Cheers

Trevor

Edited July 9, 2018 by Trev52A

[Gibbo675]

Black 5 45318 of  Lostock Hall shed,   2^nd section of  Glasgow/Edinburgh-Manchester/Liverpool service Preston-Liverpool Exchange.Driver, Ernie Hayes

 

Here is a photo from the book I mentioned earlier;

 

 

It doesn't appear that the smoke box number plate is painted red as has been mentioned but the shed plate does appear not to be a plate but slightly wonky paint.

 

Gibbo.

[pH]

It doesn't appear that the smoke box number plate is painted red as has been mentioned but the shed plate does appear not to be a plate but slightly wonky paint.

 

It looks as if the smokebox "plate" would have been painted on as well:

 

http://www.semaphoresandsteam.com/p127970527/h16FEB993#h16feb993

[Gibbo675]

It looks as if the smokebox "plate" would have been painted on as well:

 

http://www.semaphoresandsteam.com/p127970527/h16FEB993#h16feb993

It would seem that you are correct, well spotted !

[MattR]

Quote

which I understand to have been on Sat 3 August 168 , 8 days before 1T57.

 

Black 5 45318 of  Lostock Hall shed,   2nd section of  Glasgow/Edinburgh-Manchester/Liverpool service Preston-Liverpool Exchange.Driver, Ernie Hayes.

 

Since photos of the train appear to be rare or non-existent, does anyone know what type of coaches and how many would have been normally used on this service? I assume everything would have been in blue and grey by this point?

[Derek 19B]

Try the following for the train makeup. https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-FifteenGuineaSpecial.html

And google fifteen Guinea special for the locomotives .

[MattR]

3 hours ago, Derek 19B said:

Try the following for the train makeup. https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-FifteenGuineaSpecial.html

And google fifteen Guinea special for the locomotives .

 

No, not the 15 Guinea Special from Aug. 11, 1968 ... I'm looking for the "last BR normal timetabled standard gauge service" from Aug. 3, the one pulled by 45318, as listed above -- the second section of the Glasgow/Edinburgh-Manchester/Liverpool service Preston-Liverpool Exchange.

[MarkC]

4 hours ago, MattR said:

 

Since photos of the train appear to be rare or non-existent, does anyone know what type of coaches and how many would have been normally used on this service? I assume everything would have been in blue and grey by this point?

There were still many coaches in maroon in 1968 - so uniform liveried rakes of stock weren't always a given...

 

Mark

[The Johnster]

Blue/grey 'corporate' livery for gangwayed coaches, trialled on the XP64 set in, um, 1964, was introduced on normal service stock in 1966.  Apart from a few rakes of 'best' coaches for prestige named expresses (which always got the latest stock in the best condition), it was applied as the coaches came up for overhaul when their due date was reached, so the appearance of the new livery on gereral stock took several years to complete, but most trains had several blue/grey coaches by August 1968.  I would suggest a general ratio of 1 blue/grey to two lined maroon.  WR chocolate/cream stock was getting very thin on the ground by then and TTBOMK carmine & cream was extinct, and on the Southern Region the majority of stock was still in the 1956-66 malachite green (blue/grey making inroads of course), which would make appearances on inter-regional trains.  But for the final steam timetabled normal service passenger workings in the northwest of England in the summer of '68, we are talking more or less wall-to-wall lined maroon or blue/grey.  The percentage of blue/grey stock on WCML expresses, especially the named ones, would be higher.

[Steamport Southport]

Still plenty of maroon BR coaches into the 1970s.

 

 

I'm afraid unless someone took notes of the coaches used in the train then I doubt it will be knowable. It wasn't a special and even photos of it are pretty thin on the ground as it was late evening.

 

 

Jason