British Gas service engineers, are they trying it on?

[jonny777]

My father has an annual service contract with BG. 

 

He is now in a panic because at the latest service the BG engineer condemned his central heating system saying that the flue does not conform to the latest EU flue diameter regulations. His house is between 15 and 20 years old and the flue goes up through a brick enclosure to a chimney on the roof.

 

The engineer reckons it will be at leat £3000 to conform to the regulations, but my dad is in his 90s and can't afford that kind of expense on his pension.

 

I suspect this is some kind of profit maximising exercise from BG, targeting old folk who will be frightened into doing as they are told. The engineer has stuck "do not use, this appliance could be hazardous to life" stickers over the central heating boiler and switched it off. This is not too much of a problem at present because dad has a solar powered hot water heater on his south facing roof which is more than enough for his requirements. 

 

What I find suspicious is that he lives on a retirement estate where all the properties were built by the same company to a very similar design, and I would expect they all have similar boiler/flue arrangements. Is this just a BG money making exercise to get all the old folk to fit brand new combi boilers in the kitchen with flues on an outside wall?

 

Does anyone know anything about EU flue minimum diameter regulations? 

[Penrhos1920]

Sounds like the flue passes through a void and that bit of the flue can't be inspected. Read this and complain to BG customer service: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/8645548/What-is-the-new-legistration-regarding-boiler-flues.html

[drjcontroller]

I had a similar experience in the past. The flue from my boiler (in the garage) passed through the unused downstairs toilet (also in the garage) and was boxed in, I had to take off one side of the box so it could be inspected. All I got on the engineers report was "not to current standard".

 

Douglas

[ba14eagle]

Im sure these days they cant actually condemn any system, unless it fails safety tests and is actually filling the place with CO - the BG engineer that did my boiler service last year mentioned it.

In my old property, I had the central heating system installed. After about 10yrs, I started a homecare agreement with BG. Every year, when the engineer came to do the service, there would be the usual sharp intake of breath and oh, this aint upto standard speech, but it always passed their tests and they had to go away, just leaving me with a notice, saying it wasnt upto standard. but they couldnt condemn it.

I'd be tempted to get a second opinion.

[RedgateModels]

Short answer, yes, as usual. They've been at it for years. Left my Gran in a cold house in Lincolnshire in winter. I would not pay them in buttons.

[jonny777]

Sounds like the flue passes through a void and that bit of the flue can't be inspected. Read this and complain to BG customer service: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/8645548/What-is-the-new-legistration-regarding-boiler-flues.html

 

 

 

Im sure these days they cant actually condemn any system, unless it fails safety tests and is actually filling the place with CO - the BG engineer that did my boiler service last year mentioned it.

In my old property, I had the central heating system installed. After about 10yrs, I started a homecare agreement with BG. Every year, when the engineer came to do the service, there would be the usual sharp intake of breath and oh, this aint upto standard speech, but it always passed their tests and they had to go away, just leaving me with a notice, saying it wasnt upto standard. but they couldnt condemn it.

I'd be tempted to get a second opinion.

 

 

 

Yes, thanks. I am trying to arrange for a local gas engineer to visit when I can be there at the same time, so that he can explain the problem. 

 

I think it is bordering on fraudulent activity to talk of £3k boiler replacements when all he might need is an inspection hatch. 

 

I love the way the Telegraph says the financial incentives and engineer targets "may have clouded his judgement somewhat". Very subtle, but not libellous. 

[Legend]

I have to say I’ve always found British Gas engineers helpful and Courteous . I have a maintenance plan with them and never any problem, although admittedly the boilers onlybabout 7 years old from memory. Does sound like you’ve had a heavy handed visit though. I’d certainly get another gas engineer in , just to check. As you say it might simply be an inspection required.

[Colin_McLeod]

Changes in building regulations are not usually retrospective. So while a new building or new works to an existing building must conform to the latest building regulations, an existing building is ok so long as it complies with the building regulations that were in force at the time of construction/modification.

 

Flue diameters may not be building regulations but something else. I would get a second opinion from a gas installer and ask him to show you in print what the regulations actually say and whether or not they are retrospective.

[ess1uk]

They did it every time they came to look at my boiler.

Had to get a new one fitted back in February as it finally gave up.

We’ve been here 14 years and it’s been threatened ever since we moved in.

 

Won’t be using British Gas home care again

Edited August 2, 2018 by ess1uk

[eldavo]

This is British Gas speak for we'd like to sell you a new boiler and overcharge you for installation. Most of the service technicians are honest and open but it looks like some are up for hitting targets set by the management. The only intsallation estimate I've ever had from them was frankly ludicrous.

 

Cheers

Dave

[spikey]

Two things I have learned the hard way never to have anything to do with in future: British Gas, and maintenance contracts for boilers.

[Metr0Land]

I haven't been with them for 6 or 7 years now and in any case for the last 4 years we've had no gas in the latest house (no mains gas in west Wales apart from some towns).

 

For the last several years I was with them, the annual visit seemed more and more like a sales rep visiting, though none were hard-sell like quoted here.  

 

It's funny how the little things can be the straw on the camel's back.  After a visit they always used to give you a signed document with boxes ticked etc. for reassurance  Then they sent the engineers out with a laptop so no document.  It wouldn't have cost much in programming terms for them to be able to say 'sorry guv I can't give you paper document any more, but if you'd like to give me an email address, we can email you a pdf form or somesuch' 

[JJGraphics]

My father has an annual service contract with BG. 

 

He is now in a panic because at the latest service the BG engineer condemned his central heating system saying that the flue does not conform to the latest EU flue diameter regulations. His house is between 15 and 20 years old and the flue goes up through a brick enclosure to a chimney on the roof.

 

The engineer reckons it will be at leat £3000 to conform to the regulations, but my dad is in his 90s and can't afford that kind of expense on his pension.

 

I suspect this is some kind of profit maximising exercise from BG, targeting old folk who will be frightened into doing as they are told. The engineer has stuck "do not use, this appliance could be hazardous to life" stickers over the central heating boiler and switched it off. This is not too much of a problem at present because dad has a solar powered hot water heater on his south facing roof which is more than enough for his requirements. 

 

What I find suspicious is that he lives on a retirement estate where all the properties were built by the same company to a very similar design, and I would expect they all have similar boiler/flue arrangements. Is this just a BG money making exercise to get all the old folk to fit brand new combi boilers in the kitchen with flues on an outside wall?

 

Does anyone know anything about EU flue minimum diameter regulations? 

 

 

Well-known British Gas rip-off technique. They will "try it on" with just about anything they can think of.

 

BG nearly conned an older neighbour of mine into having a £700 "power flush" done on his system about five years ago. He mentioned to me that he had signed up for one. I explained about the likely con and he cancelled it. He then dumped British Gas and went with a local GasSafe registered engineer who I have used for a long time. The system has never been flushed and is performing perfectly to this day.

 

. . . "at least £3000" is excessive for a replacement boiler. A local engineer should be able to do it for £2000 or just over unless there is something very unusual about the installation.

 

John

[LBRJ]

My one and only rule for anything to do with gas/central heating.

Do NOT go anywhere near British Gas for anything!

[Classsix T]

"Could be hazardous", like cycling or wet shaving? Rather ambiguous isn't it?

 

Unless it said "inherently lethal" I'd scoff and disregard entirely.

 

C6T.

[Rivercider]

We previously had a BG maintenance contract, and never had any problem with them.

The boiler was about the only thing in the flat that was (relatively) new when we moved in 15 years ago, everything else was original from the 1960s.

Sometimes the engineer would comment that the boiler was getting on a bit, but it was a well respected make so always passed.

About 4 years ago it gave up the ghost, so we used a local chap to fit a replacement, he said he would arrange to carry out annual inspections, 

but has failed miserably, so we are going back to BG,

 

cheers

[rembrow]

Depends on whether BG have 'condemned' the flu system or issued an advice that the flu doesn't meet current regulations. If condemned they would have to have put a notice on the boiler preventing it's use until rectified. It is common however for BG to issue advisory notices that systems are not to current regulations. My daughter and son-in-law get this every year at the BG service. They have a 14 year old house where the flu from the boiler goes in the void between the ground and first floor for some 4 metres before emerging at the back of the house. It wss installed when the regs allowed it, however now a similar installation would need inspection points. BG can't require cystomers to change existing installations that were correctly installed to the regs at the time of installation. If a new boiler was installed, then the flu would probably need changing to current spec, at which point worth considering a new boiler location with through external wall venting.

[Brian D]

I can only say we have had good service from BG.  However, a week or two ago our heating (gas wet rads) were going full belt despite the heating on the boiler being off.  The first BG engineer said a valve was loose and spent about 10 minutes "fixing it".  Needless to say, the following day the same fault reoccurred so another BG engineer visited and replaced said valve.  It seems the first BG engineer was a contractor, the second was directly employed and was not impressed by the contractor's performance.  Perhaps your situation was similar in that a supposed BG engineer (alias a contractor) was speaking out of the wrong orifice when giving the advice to condemn the boiler.

Worth taking up with BG in my view.

Regards,

Brian.

[micklner]

Wouldn't touch them with a very long bargepole. Condemed my boiler left me freezing for two weeks in January, until I found a private fitter. So called engineer left saying sorry someone will phone you with a offer for a boiler replacement. FOUR weeks later I recieved a phone call from BG they didn't get a polite reply.

 

DO NOT USE !!

[EddieB]

The incentive scheme has been around for many years. In our previous house, a BG engineer condemned the flue and we later ascertained he did not perform the check correctly. But that was too late, as he’d already cut and capped off the supply to the boiler. Winter coming and a young baby in the house - but the engineer probably got a £20 bonus for his trouble.

 

Invited BG to tender for a new boiler/flue. Wow. Every boiler had a £2000 mark up on its list price, installation extra on top. Scaffolding needed to install a new flue would add a few thousands here and there.

 

In the end found a very good Corgi engineer who installed a completely new central heating system (replacing the old warm air circulation) for about the same cost as a boiler supplied by BG.

 

As others have said, avoid.

[Titan]

When our boiler went about 13 years ago, I got quotes for a replacement. Cheapest was £1,200, most expensive was £3,000, Guess which one was British Gas?

 

So I went and bought one of the last cast iron non-condensing boilers from Wickes for £650 and fitted it myself. Apart from needing a replacement control card for around £120 IIRC, it has not required any other expenditure. So a total cost to date of around £770 including maintenance and still going strong...

Edited August 2, 2018 by Titan

[Enterprisingwestern]

When our boiler went about 13 years ago, I got quotes for a replacement. Cheapest was £1,200, most expensive was £3,000, Guess which one was British Gas?

 

So I went and bought one of the last cast iron non-condensing boilers from Wickes for £650 and fitted it myself. Apart from needing a replacement control card for around £120 IIRC, it has not required any other expenditure. So a total cost to date of around £770 including maintenance and still going strong...

 

I assume you had the boiler inspected and certified by an approved installer, otherwise you have contravened building regulations, and, if not, I'd check that your house insurance company are happy with the situation, and that's before you consider whether you've had it serviced each year and have the relative paperwork.

Insurance companies are very good at lending you an umbrella and wanting it back when it rains.

 

Mike.

[jonny777]

Thanks everyone.

 

I have told him not to worry and we will have a second opinion; plus I am going to buy him a CO alarm and fit it near to the boiler cupboard just to be on the safe side. 

[Titan]

I assume you had the boiler inspected and certified by an approved installer, otherwise you have contravened building regulations, and, if not, I'd check that your house insurance company are happy with the situation, and that's before you consider whether you've had it serviced each year and have the relative paperwork.

Insurance companies are very good at lending you an umbrella and wanting it back when it rains.

 

Mike.

 

I knew someone would bite!

[polybear]

I assume you had the boiler inspected and certified by an approved installer, otherwise you have contravened building regulations, and, if not, I'd check that your house insurance company are happy with the situation, and that's before you consider whether you've had it serviced each year and have the relative paperwork.

Insurance companies are very good at lending you an umbrella and wanting it back when it rains.

 

Mike.

 

I've a feeling that (despite common belief) that as long as an individual carries out such works in a proper manner (follows the rules, correct techniques, workmanship etc) then it's legit so long as you're not doing it for any sort of payment/reward etc.

 

The OH had a B. Gas Service contract.  The engineer told her that parts for the back boiler (a Baxi Bermuda) were impossible to get and that she should look at a new boiler.  So I phoned Baxi and asked.  The guy at the other end (after he eventually stopped laughing) pointed out that the Boiler was pretty much their Pension Scheme - they'd sold so many and so many were still in service that parts disappearing was unlikely to happen anytime soon....