CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 (edited) It does appear the chap can do no wrong, almost attaining walking on water status among some. If anyone think one person can run an enterprise like this with some of the most demanding customer base known to man you need to seek mental health assistance. The chaps at Minerva seem to be doing it better, produce one model then on to the next with their own money as well. They don’t engage in this kind of open season airing of their business and keep their views to fhemselves, anyone remember the almost playground “mine will be better than theirs” cry’s with the Class 92 and the other firm doing on to ? There always seems to announcement of an announcement, hopes and maybes at news on XYZ project “next week” etc. It all seems so hype them up to keep them interested, but it’s having the opposite effect people are being tired of this approach, tried of having to be refunded then reorder via a new ordering method. It seems rushed, muddled approach to a knife edge business. This sounds like one big go at the chap, but believe it or not I actually want to see the models DJM has promised I would even be interested in a few OO class 92s, but I’ve no idea what’s what with dozens of projects. We, as in the model railway community. Are you questioning my mental health? I'm a customer of Minerva and a happy one at that. Demanding customers? Mmm, I'm not sure that 'demanding' is the right word for some of them, in the smaller scales there seems to be a lot of perfectionist experts, who then demo unpacking their locos on You Tube, to then only run them on their respective Hornby track mats and that both baffles and fascinates me in equal measure. If you have such grievances and anger with DJM, have you PMd DJ or spoken to him face to face? Rather than commenting, at length, in open forum? BTW, the usual caveats apply, I'm merely a customer of most manufacturers. Edited August 10, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Dave did indeed initially put his money where his mouth is, but lately, have you noticed it's largely the customer's money ... APT, HUO, King, class 92 ... I believe he started by re-mortgaging his house, that would have had to have been paid back, and prices in china have been going up year by year. I,m sure the J94 profit margin all but disappeared in the end, killing off the original ambitious program of models (lack of orders may also have played a part too). He did show that one man can go and get stuff designed and produced in China without having to commission the classic names. Once that was out, we had Kernow then Hattons going it alone and doubtless other shops could follow. With prices up, bank loans get harder and the price of the final model will be higher still, so yes crowd funding is a way to keep it down for us consumers. I paid my Kernow Diesel right away when given choice of cheaper now or more later to avoid the 20% extra. We also know he lost his father at the start of the year and before that his eye was taken off the ball with health issues his father had. I am not making excuses, but do know emotional and paper work roller coaster it can have on people. I,m sure the past couple months have been a big wake call and I don,t think we need another thread to repeat again all the pain points that have been stated quite profoundly recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I believe he started by re-mortgaging his house, that would have had to have been paid back, and prices in china have been going up year by year. I,m sure the J94 profit margin all but disappeared in the end, killing off the original ambitious program of models (lack of orders may also have played a part too). He did show that one man can go and get stuff designed and produced in China without having to commission the classic names. Once that was out, we had Kernow then Hattons going it alone and doubtless other shops could follow. With prices up, bank loans get harder and the price of the final model will be higher still, so yes crowd funding is a way to keep it down for us consumers. I paid my Kernow Diesel right away when given choice of cheaper now or more later to avoid the 20% extra. We also know he lost his father at the start of the year and before that his eye was taken off the ball with health issues his father had. I am not making excuses, but do know emotional and paper work roller coaster it can have on people. I,m sure the past couple months have been a big wake call and I don,t think we need another thread to repeat again all the pain points that have been stated quite profoundly recently. Well said, we are all human after all and business, especially railway models isnt easy at the moment only the super elite and/or tax dodgers are making gains (at our expense) as model railways aren't 'bread or coffins' its a brave man who sets up stall in this industry. 4-5 model shops a month are packing up..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Had it been the correct height he would have quite happily run it on track which is a shade over 2mm too narrow.If he heated it up a bit he could have squashed it down and spread the wheels out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Dave, I do feel for you and it seems like you have had to deal with some rotten luck and a number of challenging issues over recent months. However I'm pleased that it sounds like you have manage to resolve the website issues as a starting point. Rest assured you have the support of many and I hope that you will get your just rewards as and when your various projects do advance and eventually reach the market. All the best, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Well said, we are all human after all and business, especially railway models isnt easy at the moment only the super elite and/or tax dodgers are making gains (at our expense) as model railways aren't 'bread or coffins' its a brave man who sets up stall in this industry. 4-5 model shops a month are packing up..... I don't envy anyone who tried to make a living from this hobby. It's like those who invest in a football club, looking at it from the outside it seems like financial madness and must be for the love of it rather than the desire to make a fortune, especially given the public kicking individuals and companies get in arenas such as this....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Do it right and a decent living can most definitely be made. I attend the odd trade show as a demonstrator, my recent local one, whilst full of very good quality layouts, was once again considerably down on attendance as it has been every year for the last few years. All of the trade commented that sales were down, again an unfortunate repeating trend. I see this as a very similar situation to the high street. Most folk on here know what I do. Into my 5th year now. Business has grown at a quite frankly alarming rate every year. It's not the main part of my business, but as a service, a lot of customers now regularly give me stock to sell or part exchange against work, or new purchases. I have had to employ the wife as things are becoming too much for one pair of hands. My point? Niche and quality seems to work. If it was me, instead of making announcement after announcement, with complicated purchase processes, concentrate on a couple of projects at a time, get them to market, and then move on to the next. Probably wrong, but my overall feel reading this thread is that there's just too much being attempted here, and the logistics and management of it all are getting out of hand. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Are you questioning my mental health? I'm a customer of Minerva and a happy one at that. Demanding customers? Mmm, I'm not sure that 'demanding' is the right word for some of them, in the smaller scales there seems to be a lot of perfectionist experts, who then demo unpacking their locos on You Tube, to then only run them on their respective Hornby track mats and that both baffles and fascinates me in equal measure. If you have such grievances and anger with DJM, have you PMd DJ or spoken to him face to face? Rather than commenting, at length, in open forum? BTW, the usual caveats apply, I'm merely a customer of most manufacturers. I’ve certainly no anger towards DJM I wish him the best of luck in all honesty he’s going to need it to make a successs of the enterprise. I wouldn’t discribe three or four pairs as “at length” either, this seems like one of those jump go brother Dave’s defence quick sharpe responses, if your happy with the way the various models are progressing or not, then fair play. I’m not a customer, and I doubt I will be, the reason why is the way it’s all played out on here it really doesn’t give confidence at all. I don’t think I’ve made any negative comment towards Minivera, quite the opposite in fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Do it right and a decent living can most definitely be made. I attend the odd trade show as a demonstrator, my recent local one, whilst full of very good quality layouts, was once again considerably down on attendance as it has been every year for the last few years. All of the trade commented that sales were down, again an unfortunate repeating trend. I see this as a very similar situation to the high street. Most folk on here know what I do. Into my 5th year now. Business has grown at a quite frankly alarming rate every year. It's not the main part of my business, but as a service, a lot of customers now regularly give me stock to sell or part exchange against work, or new purchases. I have had to employ the wife as things are becoming too much for one pair of hands. My point? Niche and quality seems to work. If it was me, instead of making announcement after announcement, with complicated purchase processes, concentrate on a couple of projects at a time, get them to market, and then move on to the next. Probably wrong, but my overall feel reading this thread is that there's just too much being attempted here, and the logistics and management of it all are getting out of hand. Lee has summed up what I wanted to say in a much more positive way than I did, but I totally agree I’ve no downer on DJM but as Lee says to much is being pushed through with the effect of a log jam delaying and bashing overall confidence in his ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisd Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Ultimately I guess, everyone is free to avail themselves of all the details and then choose whether or not they wish to partake in the venture. As a happy owner of a number of Dave’s Mermaids, I have chosen to order a King. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold melmoth Posted August 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2018 ....My point? Niche and quality seems to work. If it was me, instead of making announcement after announcement, with complicated purchase processes, concentrate on a couple of projects at a time, get them to market, and then move on to the next... Which is exactly what Revolution are doing to great effect in N gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Do it right and a decent living can most definitely be made. I attend the odd trade show as a demonstrator, my recent local one, whilst full of very good quality layouts, was once again considerably down on attendance as it has been every year for the last few years. All of the trade commented that sales were down, again an unfortunate repeating trend. I see this as a very similar situation to the high street. Most folk on here know what I do. Into my 5th year now. Business has grown at a quite frankly alarming rate every year. It's not the main part of my business, but as a service, a lot of customers now regularly give me stock to sell or part exchange against work, or new purchases. I have had to employ the wife as things are becoming too much for one pair of hands. My point? Niche and quality seems to work. If it was me, instead of making announcement after announcement, with complicated purchase processes, concentrate on a couple of projects at a time, get them to market, and then move on to the next. Probably wrong, but my overall feel reading this thread is that there's just too much being attempted here, and the logistics and management of it all are getting out of hand. Might the flurry of pre-announcements be a way of letting everyone (including other manufacturers) know what is in the planning stages, in order to save any duplication of products? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) Which is exactly what Revolution are doing to great effect in N gauge. Though Revolution also have two advantages- they started slightly later, and some of the external hits Dave has taken which were not apparent at Dave's startup were already becoming apparent and could be factored in from the start and they decided to tie in with a single established manufacturer, who has done some of the leg work Dave has been doing alone.. Just to put one issue in context- the Class 17 problem becomes quite small (though not to we who need one) when across the Pond whole ranges are being pulled temporarily while a new factory is found for them.... Les update on that- I've just spotted on the Hornby thread that Arnold have had to pull products due to problems with a Chinese factory.... Edited August 11, 2018 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted August 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 11, 2018 Thought I had clicked on the wrong link ! I thought I was reading a thread where Dave had simply asked for Web site help but yet again see posts wondering when the car crash is going to happen ? Those who say they wish Dave all the best 'but I'm not ordering' could maybe leave it alone now ? The negativity is getting boring. I can see why Dave would need to be 'Juggling so many balls' at once, He has to put out an idea, wait to see if there is enough interest, start and run through a long and involved design process, get tooling done, get manufacturing slots booked and product made, all the time running a marketing campaign, dealing with any problems that crop up and trying to keep multiple project customer streams happy . In that type of business there will always be delays, changes and unforseen problems as you run through a very long and convoluted process so yes you need to be thinking well ahead and be progressing multiple streams if you want to have any sort of a business. Its a world away from super detailing/ weathering and selling one unit (super job by the way !) Where if you have a problem you can set it aside and carry on with the dozens of other projects you have on the work bench to ensure a steady income stream. And yes, we have all now read about every single event, problem, job that Dave hasn't done, across just about every single topic that he posts in. I'm surprised he has't thrown his hands in the air, said s@% it and walked away. Can we PLEASE give it a rest now ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted August 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2018 Might the flurry of pre-announcements be a way of letting everyone (including other manufacturers) know what is in the planning stages, in order to save any duplication of products? Well that didn’t work with the OO King/CL71/Q6 that Hornby were already well underway with or the HUO that accurascale were underway with, the class 92 that RevolutioN were underway with, all prior to DJM announcements of the same products in the same scale. I’m not saying there’s a pattern of DJM announcing DJM products of the same items already in development by other manufacturers, even more bizarrely from two previous clients/partners of DJM, but it’s a remarkable set of ‘unfortunate’ coincidences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 Well that didn’t work with the OO King/CL71/Q6 that Hornby were already well underway with or the HUO that accurascale were underway with, the class 92 that RevolutioN were underway with, all prior to DJM announcements of the same products in the same scale. I’m not saying there’s a pattern of DJM announcing DJM products of the same items already in development by other manufacturers, even more bizarrely from two previous clients/partners of DJM, but it’s a remarkable set of ‘unfortunate’ coincidences. King, Class 71 and the 92 were all underway by myself before others announced them. just dropping that here for accuracy sake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) I don't envy anyone who tried to make a living from this hobby. It's like those who invest in a football club, looking at it from the outside it seems like financial madness and must be for the love of it rather than the desire to make a fortune, especially given the public kicking individuals and companies get in arenas such as this.......Like the rose tinted thoughts of running a pub! Do it right and a decent living can most definitely be made. I attend the odd trade show as a demonstrator, my recent local one, whilst full of very good quality layouts, was once again considerably down on attendance as it has been every year for the last few years. All of the trade commented that sales were down, again an unfortunate repeating trend. I see this as a very similar situation to the high street. Most folk on here know what I do. Into my 5th year now. Business has grown at a quite frankly alarming rate every year. It's not the main part of my business, but as a service, a lot of customers now regularly give me stock to sell or part exchange against work, or new purchases. I have had to employ the wife as things are becoming too much for one pair of hands. My point? Niche and quality seems to work. If it was me, instead of making announcement after announcement, with complicated purchase processes, concentrate on a couple of projects at a time, get them to market, and then move on to the next. Probably wrong, but my overall feel reading this thread is that there's just too much being attempted here, and the logistics and management of it all are getting out of hand. Niche is nearly always best when starting small, why go head to head in a highly competitive segment I’ve certainly no anger towards DJM I wish him the best of luck in all honesty he’s going to need it to make a successs of the enterprise. I wouldn’t discribe three or four pairs as “at length” either, this seems like one of those jump go brother Dave’s defence quick sharpe responses, if your happy with the way the various models are progressing or not, then fair play. I’m not a customer, and I doubt I will be, the reason why is the way it’s all played out on here it really doesn’t give confidence at all. I don’t think I’ve made any negative comment towards Minivera, quite the opposite in fact. I'm a patient man, its only a hobby, I'd rather wait and have it right rather than poor quality with no QC Might the flurry of pre-announcements be a way of letting everyone (including other manufacturers) know what is in the planning stages, in order to save any duplication of products? Its a fine line isn't it, mark out your territory in advance or have the model ready to release with a surprise announcement a bit like the Hornby 08. DJ had to hit the ground almost running, the likes of Minerva eased into the market with less pressure? When its your sole income and living etc, it must be stressful...... Back on topic now. Edited August 11, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Hi everyone, Despite being promised a 'going live' on Friday night / Saturday, it has , as of Sunday morning 08.20, failed to happen. I can only apologise to those wishing to place APT / King orders and hope that it happens today. Thanks and sorry Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_schmidt1 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 King, Class 71 and the 92 were all underway by myself before others announced them. just dropping that here for accuracy sake. That's kinda flawed logic isn't it. What's to say that others were not working on theirs before they announced them? Both the Hornby King and class 71 were well advanced and reached the shops first if we're being accurate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted August 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) King, Class 71 and the 92 were all underway by myself before others announced them. just dropping that here for accuracy sake.You didn’t mention the HUO there. and, it was announced beforehand by DJM, delivered beforehand by Accurascale. Is the DJ HUO still live, I’ve a rake of those and their very nice. Edited August 12, 2018 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) That's kinda flawed logic isn't it. What's to say that others were not working on theirs before they announced them? Both the Hornby King and class 71 were well advanced and reached the shops first if we're being accurate.Using your argument - your arguement is flawed! Would you, as a one man band, with finite resources, go head to head with larger manufacturers when you then knew, for sure, four square and true, that they, with better resources were entering the market with the same product? Common sense and good business acumen dictates that you quit whilst you're ahead and cut your loses, perhaps returning to that model at a later date to infill any niches left by the big boys or abandon it and look for another opening instead. Edited August 12, 2018 by CME and Bottlewasher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Hi everyone, Despite being promised a 'going live' on Friday night / Saturday, it has , as of Sunday morning 08.20, failed to happen. I can only apologise to those wishing to place APT / King orders and hope that it happens today. Thanks and sorry Dave I'm sorry to hear that Dave. Have you got a formal contract with this so called 'Webmaster'? Now you've tracked him down and pinned him down, what is his excuse for not going live this weekend? ATVB, CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 That's kinda flawed logic isn't it. What's to say that others were not working on theirs before they announced them? Both the Hornby King and class 71 were well advanced and reached the shops first if we're being accurate. The only accuracy that matters is accuracy, and in that you are inaccurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_schmidt1 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Using your argument - your arguement is flawed! Would you, as a one man band, with finite resources, go head to head with larger manufacturers when you then knew, for sure, four square and true, that they, with better resources were entering the market with the same product? Common sense and good business acumen dictates that you quit whilst you're ahead and cut your loses, perhaps returning to that model at a later date to infill any niches left by the big boys or abandon it and look for another opening instead. Could you point out in my comment where I said Dave knew they were working on the same products?! I was making a point about Dave saying he was working on his before others announced the same product and how would he know that they themselves weren't already working on said items before they announced them..and even then Dave did still choose to go head to head on the class 71 and HUO and was beaten to the shelves! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 I'm sorry to hear that Dave. Have you got a formal contract with this so called 'Webmaster'? Now you've tracked him down and pinned him down, what is his excuse for not going live this weekend? ATVB, CME He's not responding to his personal mails, or the phone or texts mate so i have no idea! The contract said 1 week from June 2nd and due to getting Lloyds Click safe on board for the e-commerce package, they too 3 weeks to examine, question, and then finally approve and link / test etc. So to be fair, that's all of June used up. As the web site currently stands it's been ready to go live since the 1st or second week of July. I have mailed and texted this morning but have yet to receive a reply, and hope it's because he's working on getting it live today! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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