Carnival Horizon Accident

[BernardTPM]

Interesting Bernard; I think the American word turnout started to be used by British PW engineers in the early 1930s but it's only fairly recently started to  appear in that context in the larger general dictionaries. It's not in the Cambridge Online Dictionary.

 

Frog is interesting. My 1990 Concise Oxford gives "a grooved piece of iron at a place in a railway where tracks cross (19th c; origin unknown) which mean it's been around almost as long as railways (so yah boo sucks to the model railway pedants who say its "incorrect")  Other sources say it derives from the object's resemblance to part of a horse's hoof rather than directly from the animal.

Whisper it quietly, but it referred to the whole arrangement as a 'switch'. The singular 'point' is clearly inaquequate, but 'a set of points' would be reasonable to describe the whole thing.

Yes, frog had the horse's hoof as one fo the meanings (the second), but also "a spindle shaped button or toggle used for fastening military cloaks". The railway version was the 4th meaning, so presumably more recent than the others.

 

I liked this old dictionary back in the day as it came up with meanings for more of the obscure words used in 'Call My Bluff' than any other newer ones we had.

Edited August 29, 2018 by BernardTPM

[njee20]

The difference between allusion and collision is one of those things that probably strikes most as an arcane semantic point of interest which is all but irrelevant. For most people that is probably true, but as with many words which are still used in a formal (legal) context the difference is very real and important as they distinguish different actions or concepts accurately and unambiguously simply by use of a single word. For those who have to read marine accident investigation reports, marine regulatory texts etc the word allusion is one they will almost certainly be familiar with and very comfortable about using themselves.

Allusion or allision?  An allusion alludes to something, surely it's allision? It's a great word, I like that very much.

 

 

Are we sure the pier was stationery - or is that fake news   

If it had been stationery then I doubt it would have been standing, just a soggy papery mess

[jjb1970]

Sorry, auto spelling correction.

[Reorte]

Entirely speculation here, but if the legalese definition of "collision" requires both objects moving is that why it's "co"?

[Pacific231G]

Sorry, auto spelling correction.

Don't you just hate it when computers think they know what we're trying to say or wanting to do?  I wish they'd stop trying to be helpful because they're really not very good at it even when they (or rather their software writers) think they are. It'll get ever worse as the use of AI increases.

 

Entirely speculation here, but if the legalese definition of "collision" requires both objects moving is that why it's "co"?

That's probably the original distinction in the derivation of both words but it's now probably truer to say that allision is a particular kind of collision and only used in maritime contexts.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Pacific231G

[duncan]

It's more interesting when neither vessel is moving  

[Colin_McLeod]

It's more interesting when neither vessel is moving

 

Would that be collusion?

[BernardTPM]

or even a nullusion.

[Edwin_m]

Delusion. 

[davefromacrossthepond]

Delusion. 

You mean covfefe?

[Colin_McLeod]

This is post #36 and so far in this thread ALL replies are "off topic" as no one has discussed or commented on the accident described in the OP.

 

Is this a record?

[Ozexpatriate]

Is this a record?

Or normal?

[NorthBrit]

And no mention of  A large cruise ship has broken a number of luxurious yachts because it tried to show in Dartmouth harbour on Wednesday.

Witnesses reported seeing boat homeowners ‘working from their vessels in pyjamas’ because the 539ft Saga Pearl II edged in the direction of the smaller pleasure vessels that had been moored up.

[The Stationmaster]

And no mention of  A large cruise ship has broken a number of luxurious yachts because it tried to show in Dartmouth harbour on Wednesday.

Witnesses reported seeing boat homeowners ‘working from their vessels in pyjamas’ because the 539ft Saga Pearl II edged in the direction of the smaller pleasure vessels that had been moored up.

 

Ah, journalism as she is writ strikes again to misinform us all.  Saga Pearl II is actually one of the smaller cruise ships currently at sea (max capacity 449 passengers), c.18,600 gross tons and she did hit four yachts but none of them would fall into any sort of 'kuxury' category - just ordinary yachts.  Read all about it and see the video on the local 'paper's website -

 

http://www.dartmouth-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=114474&headline=Yachts%20in%20River%20Dart%20%27clipped%27%20by%20cruise%20ship&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

Edited August 30, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Ozexpatriate]

In the spirit of Colin's observation, I cannot see the term "luxury yacht" without thinking of one named "Raymond", even if he pronounced it differently.

[melmerby]

This is post #36 and so far in this thread ALL replies are "off topic" as no one has discussed or commented on the accident described in the OP.

 

Is this a record?

No

This is a record:

 

Keith

[bennyboy]

Allision is what some blokes call their wives when they're drunk.

[Classsix T]

Elvis Costello writ a song about it...

 

C6T.

[Pacific231G]

This is post #36 and so far in this thread ALL replies are "off topic" as no one has discussed or commented on the accident described in the OP.

 

Is this a record?

I thought the occurence of the word allision WAS  the point of the OP . That apart, nobody was injured and no railways were damaged in a minor incident on another continent; what's to discuss?  (When Hythe Pier on Southampton Water - which does have a railway- was badly damaged by a ship striking it I'm not sure it even reached the national news) 

OTOH Northbrit introduced TWO interesting words that I suspect most of us had never heard before. The other was watchstanders at Coast Guard Sector New York Vessel Traffic Service. I'm used to watchkeeper in a maritime context and I've heard of standing watches at sea ( I've done it in engine rooms) but I'd never heard watchstander before. It does though seem to be a common term for this in US nautical circles (though the USN refers to Officer of the Deck or OOD)

 

I had also vaguely wonderred what VTS stood for (though not enough to bother to look it up) it came up in an edition of TopGear a few years ago when Clarkson called "London VTS" on VHF to get permission to run a speedboat down the Thamesn. Now I know it's Vessel Traffic Service which on the tidal Thames is run by the PLA (who did once have railways!) .

[jjb1970]

Unfortunately the maritime sector is like most others in that there seems to have been a steady increase in the number of acronyms and abbreviations used, to the point that I suspect most maritime people probably struggle to keep up to speed on some of them. On the other hand many of the words used in the sector are rather archaic and in some cases their meaning goes back to much older usage and predates more modern usage. For example, in certain maritime applications the word "warranty" has a very narrow meaning which is not at all what most would understand but which is critically important to know because if parties do not know what they agree to under a warranty they could end up in a world of trouble.

When I started working for a classification society I initially struggled with the importance of words and the precision of language, but once you get used to such an environment you do recognise why it is both so important and why it actually makes life much easier.

[Happy Hippo]

Whisper it quietly, but it referred to the whole arrangement as a 'switch'. The singular 'point' is clearly inaquequate, but 'a set of points' would be reasonable to describe the whole thing.

Yes, frog had the horse's hoof as one fo the meanings (the second), but also "a spindle shaped button or toggle used for fastening military cloaks". The railway version was the 4th meaning, so presumably more recent than the others.

 

I liked this old dictionary back in the day as it came up with meanings for more of the obscure words used in 'Call My Bluff' than any other newer ones we had.

What about the frog in the top (or bottom depending which way up it is,) in a brick?

 

Or a bayonet frog.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Happy Hippo

[Oldddudders]

What about the frog in the top (or bottom depending which way up it is,) in a brick?

 

Or a bayonet frog.

 

Or most of my neighbours.

[davefromacrossthepond]

The other was watchstanders at Coast Guard Sector New York Vessel Traffic Service. I'm used to watchkeeper in a maritime context and I've heard of standing watches at sea ( I've done it in engine rooms) but I'd never heard watchstander before. It does though seem to be a common term for this in US nautical circles (though the USN refers to Officer of the Deck or OOD)

 

Actually on a USN ship (at least in my time) all personnel who are on watch are "watchstanders" of which the officer of the deck is but one. Others can include helmsman, lookout, engineering officer of the watch, etc.

Dave

[Bon Accord]

Always watchkeepers in British ships and on vessels with crews from countries of British influence.

In the maritime world there are so many terms which could be defined as archaic that you could easily fill a book with them. Considering watchkeepers/watchstanders, in British deepsea vessels there used to always be three ratings on watch with every officer. This harks back to the days before autopilots where each took a turn at the wheel and even after autopilots saw widespread adoption (1950s onwards) the three men on watch were retained and were always known as 1st wheel, 2nd wheel and farmer.

The latter term dated back to the days of sail where the "farmer" on watch used to care for livestock carried onboard - in the days before refrigeration most ships carried live chickens and pigs so as to ensure a regular supply of fresh meat. Specifically the farmer was stand by man for the first hour, relieving the helmsman for a ten minute smoke fifty minutes into the watch, then doing two straight hours on lookout, after which he relieved the second wheel for a smoke, then retired to the messroom for the remainder of his watch, rousing himself only to wake the next set of watch keepers with tea and toast at one bell (15 minutes prior to the watch change).

Of course all of that has disappeared into history now and there's few of us left at sea who would remember it.

[jjb1970]

A good example of how nomenclature differs between different maritime nations is the ranking of engineers. The traditional British system was chief engineer, second engineer, third engineer etc. In the US it was chief engineer, first assistant engineer, second assistant engineer etc. In Europe it tended to be chief engineer, first engineer, second engineer etc. OCL/P&OCL adopted the European system with officer tagged on before engineer, so chief engineer, first officer engineer, second officer engineer etc. And in the US and quite a few other regimes they use the expression first mate, whereas in this country the mate was the mate, or chief officer but I don't think I ever heard the term first mate. Actually, it was usually harry tate, but that's another story.